Supercharger 4a-gze with N/A guts..

mr2tim · 11-10-2008, 09:34 PM

With some "help" from New Zealand I 've got this crazy idea to put spare 9.5:1 "bluetop" pistons, rods and crank etc into this empty 4a-gze (8:1) block out back.

Kinda curious if anybody out 'thar ever did this and had the engine survive to tell about it?

And yes, I still want to supercharge it with a standard Toyota pulley.

Jackstand Queen · 11-14-2008, 01:27 PM

I've read somewhere that its been done with no short term problems.

I guess just octane up your gas, and race it would be the thing to do.

ebouwman · 02-18-2009, 11:28 PM

i think 328ftw said he did it and knows people who have done it, but he has also blown through 8 engines...

Just wondering, would it be possible to put the supercharger on the N/A block? and just swap on a GZE head as well?

Jackstand Queen · 02-19-2009, 01:29 AM

The compression ratio of an N.A. would require racing fuel level of octane to make it run properly. Also the timing might have to be retarded somewhat.

328FTW · 02-19-2009, 01:52 AM

Oh hai guyz

Yep I have done this and surprisingly it is the engine that has not blown up, I have been using it as a DD for about 4 years now and even taken it to a couple track days. My engines that blew up were the stock pistons and one with silvertop pistons, go figure (normally due to something retard but anyway....).

I run it on 91 with the timing knocked back a little but even if I bump it up it doesn't ping or detonate or...anything. It even idles at a healthy 900 revs all day long

ebouwman · 02-19-2009, 06:10 PM

^ What kind of power is that set up making?

Also, i was looking at just putting the supercharger onto my n/a engine, and just swapping the manifold, and maybe the head to make it work.

Is that possible, or are there big differences in the design of the block?

328FTW · 02-19-2009, 11:46 PM

Never taken it to a dyno day to find out but at stock boost (which worries me as it is) and a header back exhaust system it hauls real good, I am running with the ultra overcomplicated and restrictive stock intake filter and inlet pipes without the n/a throttle body or grinding the dogleg (you may know what I mean there or may not) That is going to change but it is my DD not my racecar so not overly concerned. The lighter internals and n/a flywheel make it rev and bark up really quick which is awesome.

You can just drop the head on the bluetop or redtop engines but they lack a knock sensor so will throw a CEL and knock back the timing. The blocks are not as strong but they should hold this without any issues. They are almost exactly the same block and you can swap back and forth with ease.

I would really like to polish the rods or have them shot but it hasn't had an issue so far. Runs like it just rolled out of the factory and idles like a dream. Funny since it was just a slap together engine that I intended to replace with a stock one when it blew up.

ebouwman · 02-20-2009, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 328FTW

Never taken it to a dyno day to find out but at stock boost (which worries me as it is) and a header back exhaust system it hauls real good, I am running with the ultra overcomplicated and restrictive stock intake filter and inlet pipes without the n/a throttle body or grinding the dogleg (you may know what I mean there or may not) That is going to change but it is my DD not my racecar so not overly concerned. The lighter internals and n/a flywheel make it rev and bark up really quick which is awesome.

You can just drop the head on the bluetop or redtop engines but they lack a knock sensor so will throw a CEL and knock back the timing. The blocks are not as strong but they should hold this without any issues. They are almost exactly the same block and you can swap back and forth with ease.

I would really like to polish the rods or have them shot but it hasn't had an issue so far. Runs like it just rolled out of the factory and idles like a dream. Funny since it was just a slap together engine that I intended to replace with a stock one when it blew up.

So the head's swap, but does the supercharger bolt onto the block?

I'm just looking into my options, i was talking to a guy that was selling a 3sgte, but hasn't answered me in a while, so now i'm considering either swaping in a 4agze, or just adding the super and head to the existing 4age. And at some point i'm going to swap in a manual tranny to replace the auto, i've heard that a celica 6 speed can work, but i'll see what happens.

But ya, lots of plans, but who knows what'll actually end up being done

328FTW · 02-20-2009, 01:50 AM

The supercharger actually hangs off the head and intake with a bracket bolted to the block to support the bottom but the holes are there for it so you can swap that as well. Personally I want to make a lighter version of the bracket because it is cast and it is just more weight that would be easy to shave.

I'm doing a mk1.5 now and at first the wiring and mounts scared me but after looking into it for hours on end it now looks dead easy to chuck a 3sge in it and develop it up. Even the 3sge without a turbo should bump things up with the extra torque.

ebouwman · 02-20-2009, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 328FTW

The supercharger actually hangs off the head and intake with a bracket bolted to the block to support the bottom but the holes are there for it so you can swap that as well. Personally I want to make a lighter version of the bracket because it is cast and it is just more weight that would be easy to shave.

I'm doing a mk1.5 now and at first the wiring and mounts scared me but after looking into it for hours on end it now looks dead easy to chuck a 3sge in it and develop it up. Even the 3sge without a turbo should bump things up with the extra torque.

Thanks.

I'd go for the 3sgTe for that extra power

, but i don't race, so i wouldn't know the pro's and cons of n/a vs forced.

I'll have to see what happens though, as i think i said, i'm waiting on people to reply about engines

and i also wanted to do a rebuild on one to learn more, as it's always good to learn, and become quick and efficient at engine work.

mkimr2 · 06-14-2009, 01:36 AM

I have run the jdm small port for two years without problem. Till i got greedy on power..... lol

Cracked a ringland. Well a few.... But I have my 450whp cosworth STi now so I dont need to get too greedy now days.

Anyways.... All I needed to do is move the knock sensor over drivers side a bit. There is a spot you can drill and tap for the knock sensor. Then your ready to go. Just bring the timing back and run 91..

mr2tim · 06-19-2009, 03:08 PM

Why not? I've got the S/C intake, different throttle, but not the different TPS, different cable, intake plumbing and intercooler and of of course you'll need a new S/C ECU the heads look the same though. Knock Sensor?

Did I mention your N/A A/C Compressor won't work with the SC ECU?

Jeez, it sounded so easy....like most things in life it's not.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebouwman

i think 328ftw said he did it and knows people who have done it, but he has also blown through 8 engines...

Just wondering, would it be possible to put the supercharger on the N/A block? and just swap on a GZE head as well?

Capt.Evergreen · 06-19-2009, 07:09 PM

supposedly the NA guts can support a turbo.... with an gze ecu... someone on here is runing twitn turbo... on NA internals.... i need SC internals,,,, if anyone is chillen on some...

Capt. EverGreen

mkimr2 · 06-20-2009, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capt.Evergreen

supposedly the NA guts can support a turbo.... with an gze ecu... someone on here is runing twitn turbo... on NA internals.... i need SC internals,,,, if anyone is chillen on some...

Capt. EverGreen

I have a good crank and rods for a GZE its the bigger crank and rods. Out of a JDM.

Make a offer.

Adrians89MR2SC · 07-05-2009, 09:36 AM

still trying to get my 89 mr2 SC running .. but last time I had it running it blew the head gasket in 14 miles ..

funny thing was is I found out the block was a 4age and I happened to strap the supercharger stuff to it

was a couple years ago but it was a pretty peppy engine even though I didnt run over 4K rpm since it was a new engine .. but blew the HG across three cylinders and had coolant running out of my HKS exhaust

thanks Joe Vick

got the stock supercharged engine in now and still cant get it running for some unknown reason .. seems to run fine over 3K rpm but wont run under that .. took off the whole intake earlier this year thinking it was a vacuum leak and just started putting it back together yesterday .. so hopefully I'll have her running shortly

if not, then out it is with the 4agze and in with a mk1.5 swap .. drove a mk2 turbo for a year and love that 3sgte engine .. I found the 3sgte to be alot more simple than the 4agze and never gave me any major problems

Jackstand Queen · 07-05-2009, 01:45 PM

Don't impale the baby on a sharp spike, because it shat its diaper!

Getting an SC engine to run good, and keeping it running good is not easy. And its a lot of work too!

Run us through what all you have done in your SC swap first. What kind of ECU, injectors, ignitor, plugs, AFM, alternator, main pulley for instance?

You might read through the last year's posts in the forced induction forum . . . to get a lot of good ideas, things to check out first.

I'd need more information to help you at this point.

Adrians89MR2SC · 07-05-2009, 09:53 PM

if you were talking about me ..

its a factory 89 mr2 sc with leather interior .. so everything is stock drivetrain wise except hks exhaust and jdm throttle body (dont ask me why joe vick, the previous owner, gave me a jdm throttle body with no vacuum ports)

I basically got the parts in a million pieces .. gutted and two or three of everything and none of some things .. so it was kinda like a big kit car with the big green book to put it together .. I was 16 and thought dual cam 4cylinders were the best thing on earth and then it had the supercharger and 12" big brake kit that won me over .. I'm 19 now and have a decent job and my own money to waste .. so I'd like to get it running and use it as my "weekend car / toy / some days daily driver" to keep the miles of my new 350z

I got a guy helping me get it running that helped joe vick and all those guys a while back ago make the custom suspension, big brake kits, and 5 lug conversion that are on mine, his, and one other mr2 that possibly got destroyed (was john vicks 88 mr2 sc gray)

anyways .. theres some vids on youtube last time I tried to get it running ..

got to youtube and type in "mullinsadrian" .. I got some mk1 vids and a couple of the turbo mk2 I used to have with the ssac turbo kit (the really long thread in the mk2 section .. haha)

Jackstand Queen · 07-05-2009, 11:05 PM

So its not idling, or running below 3k . . . hmmmm.

Can you pull a code from the ECU? There's a sticky on jumpering the test connectors in the engine bay, and counting the blinks on the check engine light. Run a search if the sticky is elusive.

Thats a good place to start.

Adrians89MR2SC · 07-06-2009, 06:33 PM

yea I pulled two codes out last time I tried getting it to run last year .. I posted up a thread last year and put the codes in it .. I'll see if I can find them and I'll edit this post to include them ..

I've been through every test / troubleshooting thing in the big green book multiple times .. all sensors check out good, all connections to the ecu are good .. its a mystery why it isnt running right ..

EDIT -

Heres my old thread from last year .. didnt take long to find it .. haha .. on the 2nd page

almost got her running again

pulled the codes 21 and 51 last time it started .. theres also some videos in there too

Jackstand Queen · 07-06-2009, 06:59 PM

Hmmm there's an Idle air Control device that sits on the top of the throttle body. That could account for throwing a code 51 out. Does your car have an automatic tranny, and or a working AC compressor?

One bit of advice with SC car problems I've had a lot of success with is to check for corroded wiring harness terminals, especially the AFM, TPS, Ignitor, Alternator, etc. Ahem, especially the AFM.

The ground that is the mounting bolt for the injector solenoid could need to be cleaned up.

Check that a larger ground wire is in place between the radiator filler tube mount and the intake manifold.

On the fuel rail there are two ground leads coming out of the wiring harness and terminating on the intake manifold near the fuel rail. These might need freshening too.

Another item that could be messing up your idle is the Air By Pass valve. It has a tendency to become full of typical gunk. It can be gummed up by gunk. Cleaning it's insides with a solvent could improve its function.

11-10-2008, 09:34 PM	#1 (permalink)
mr2tim SUPERcharZed ToyZ RacZer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 690 Thanks: 2 Thanked 41 Times in 38 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Supercharger 4a-gze with N/A guts.. With some "help" from New Zealand I 've got this crazy idea to put spare 9.5:1 "bluetop" pistons, rods and crank etc into this empty 4a-gze (8:1) block out back. Kinda curious if anybody out 'thar ever did this and had the engine survive to tell about it? And yes, I still want to supercharge it with a standard Toyota pulley.

07-05-2009, 09:53 PM	#17 (permalink)
Adrians89MR2SC Build,Drive,Sell,Repeat Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: McDonough, Ga Posts: 887 Thanks: 9 Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	if you were talking about me .. its a factory 89 mr2 sc with leather interior .. so everything is stock drivetrain wise except hks exhaust and jdm throttle body (dont ask me why joe vick, the previous owner, gave me a jdm throttle body with no vacuum ports) I basically got the parts in a million pieces .. gutted and two or three of everything and none of some things .. so it was kinda like a big kit car with the big green book to put it together .. I was 16 and thought dual cam 4cylinders were the best thing on earth and then it had the supercharger and 12" big brake kit that won me over .. I'm 19 now and have a decent job and my own money to waste .. so I'd like to get it running and use it as my "weekend car / toy / some days daily driver" to keep the miles of my new 350z I got a guy helping me get it running that helped joe vick and all those guys a while back ago make the custom suspension, big brake kits, and 5 lug conversion that are on mine, his, and one other mr2 that possibly got destroyed (was john vicks 88 mr2 sc gray) anyways .. theres some vids on youtube last time I tried to get it running .. got to youtube and type in "mullinsadrian" .. I got some mk1 vids and a couple of the turbo mk2 I used to have with the ssac turbo kit (the really long thread in the mk2 section .. haha) Last edited by Adrians89MR2SC; 07-05-2009 at 10:00 PM.

07-06-2009, 06:33 PM	#19 (permalink)
Adrians89MR2SC Build,Drive,Sell,Repeat Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: McDonough, Ga Posts: 887 Thanks: 9 Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	yea I pulled two codes out last time I tried getting it to run last year .. I posted up a thread last year and put the codes in it .. I'll see if I can find them and I'll edit this post to include them .. I've been through every test / troubleshooting thing in the big green book multiple times .. all sensors check out good, all connections to the ecu are good .. its a mystery why it isnt running right .. EDIT - Heres my old thread from last year .. didnt take long to find it .. haha .. on the 2nd page almost got her running again pulled the codes 21 and 51 last time it started .. theres also some videos in there too Last edited by Adrians89MR2SC; 07-06-2009 at 06:41 PM.

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11-14-2008, 01:27 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I've read somewhere that its been done with no short term problems. I guess just octane up your gas, and race it would be the thing to do.

02-18-2009, 11:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
ebouwman Curve Hugger Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 1,388 Thanks: 18 Thanked 48 Times in 48 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	i think 328ftw said he did it and knows people who have done it, but he has also blown through 8 engines... Just wondering, would it be possible to put the supercharger on the N/A block? and just swap on a GZE head as well?

02-19-2009, 01:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	The compression ratio of an N.A. would require racing fuel level of octane to make it run properly. Also the timing might have to be retarded somewhat.

02-19-2009, 01:52 AM	#5 (permalink)
328FTW Can you say grippy? Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,513 Thanks: 12 Thanked 99 Times in 83 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Oh hai guyz Yep I have done this and surprisingly it is the engine that has not blown up, I have been using it as a DD for about 4 years now and even taken it to a couple track days. My engines that blew up were the stock pistons and one with silvertop pistons, go figure (normally due to something retard but anyway....). I run it on 91 with the timing knocked back a little but even if I bump it up it doesn't ping or detonate or...anything. It even idles at a healthy 900 revs all day long

02-19-2009, 06:10 PM	#6 (permalink)
ebouwman Curve Hugger Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: BC, Canada Posts: 1,388 Thanks: 18 Thanked 48 Times in 48 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	^ What kind of power is that set up making? Also, i was looking at just putting the supercharger onto my n/a engine, and just swapping the manifold, and maybe the head to make it work. Is that possible, or are there big differences in the design of the block?

02-19-2009, 11:46 PM	#7 (permalink)
328FTW Can you say grippy? Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,513 Thanks: 12 Thanked 99 Times in 83 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Never taken it to a dyno day to find out but at stock boost (which worries me as it is) and a header back exhaust system it hauls real good, I am running with the ultra overcomplicated and restrictive stock intake filter and inlet pipes without the n/a throttle body or grinding the dogleg (you may know what I mean there or may not) That is going to change but it is my DD not my racecar so not overly concerned. The lighter internals and n/a flywheel make it rev and bark up really quick which is awesome. You can just drop the head on the bluetop or redtop engines but they lack a knock sensor so will throw a CEL and knock back the timing. The blocks are not as strong but they should hold this without any issues. They are almost exactly the same block and you can swap back and forth with ease. I would really like to polish the rods or have them shot but it hasn't had an issue so far. Runs like it just rolled out of the factory and idles like a dream. Funny since it was just a slap together engine that I intended to replace with a stock one when it blew up.

02-20-2009, 01:50 AM	#9 (permalink)
328FTW Can you say grippy? Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,513 Thanks: 12 Thanked 99 Times in 83 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The supercharger actually hangs off the head and intake with a bracket bolted to the block to support the bottom but the holes are there for it so you can swap that as well. Personally I want to make a lighter version of the bracket because it is cast and it is just more weight that would be easy to shave. I'm doing a mk1.5 now and at first the wiring and mounts scared me but after looking into it for hours on end it now looks dead easy to chuck a 3sge in it and develop it up. Even the 3sge without a turbo should bump things up with the extra torque.

06-14-2009, 01:36 AM	#11 (permalink)
mkimr2 No Skills Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 12 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I have run the jdm small port for two years without problem. Till i got greedy on power..... lol Cracked a ringland. Well a few.... But I have my 450whp cosworth STi now so I dont need to get too greedy now days. Anyways.... All I needed to do is move the knock sensor over drivers side a bit. There is a spot you can drill and tap for the knock sensor. Then your ready to go. Just bring the timing back and run 91..

06-19-2009, 07:09 PM	#13 (permalink)
Capt.Evergreen Cage Fighter Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 102 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	supposedly the NA guts can support a turbo.... with an gze ecu... someone on here is runing twitn turbo... on NA internals.... i need SC internals,,,, if anyone is chillen on some... Capt. EverGreen

07-05-2009, 09:36 AM	#15 (permalink)
Adrians89MR2SC Build,Drive,Sell,Repeat Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: McDonough, Ga Posts: 887 Thanks: 9 Thanked 25 Times in 24 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	still trying to get my 89 mr2 SC running .. but last time I had it running it blew the head gasket in 14 miles .. funny thing was is I found out the block was a 4age and I happened to strap the supercharger stuff to it was a couple years ago but it was a pretty peppy engine even though I didnt run over 4K rpm since it was a new engine .. but blew the HG across three cylinders and had coolant running out of my HKS exhaust thanks Joe Vick got the stock supercharged engine in now and still cant get it running for some unknown reason .. seems to run fine over 3K rpm but wont run under that .. took off the whole intake earlier this year thinking it was a vacuum leak and just started putting it back together yesterday .. so hopefully I'll have her running shortly if not, then out it is with the 4agze and in with a mk1.5 swap .. drove a mk2 turbo for a year and love that 3sgte engine .. I found the 3sgte to be alot more simple than the 4agze and never gave me any major problems

07-05-2009, 01:45 PM	#16 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Don't impale the baby on a sharp spike, because it shat its diaper! Getting an SC engine to run good, and keeping it running good is not easy. And its a lot of work too! Run us through what all you have done in your SC swap first. What kind of ECU, injectors, ignitor, plugs, AFM, alternator, main pulley for instance? You might read through the last year's posts in the forced induction forum . . . to get a lot of good ideas, things to check out first. I'd need more information to help you at this point.

07-05-2009, 11:05 PM	#18 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	So its not idling, or running below 3k . . . hmmmm. Can you pull a code from the ECU? There's a sticky on jumpering the test connectors in the engine bay, and counting the blinks on the check engine light. Run a search if the sticky is elusive. Thats a good place to start.

07-06-2009, 06:59 PM	#20 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Hmmm there's an Idle air Control device that sits on the top of the throttle body. That could account for throwing a code 51 out. Does your car have an automatic tranny, and or a working AC compressor? One bit of advice with SC car problems I've had a lot of success with is to check for corroded wiring harness terminals, especially the AFM, TPS, Ignitor, Alternator, etc. Ahem, especially the AFM. The ground that is the mounting bolt for the injector solenoid could need to be cleaned up. Check that a larger ground wire is in place between the radiator filler tube mount and the intake manifold. On the fuel rail there are two ground leads coming out of the wiring harness and terminating on the intake manifold near the fuel rail. These might need freshening too. Another item that could be messing up your idle is the Air By Pass valve. It has a tendency to become full of typical gunk. It can be gummed up by gunk. Cleaning it's insides with a solvent could improve its function.