supercharge me!

[88*mr2]

hi i drive a 1988 mr2 n/a im looking to supercharge it and get some more hp out of it... suggestions on where to start? wat will be the things that i have to do to before S/C it? and where i would be likly to find the part(s)? can i S/c it if i dont build the block?

[328FTW]

If you want a good charger you probably want an sc14, it can more than handle the 4age even the sc12 are a pretty good charger up to 15psi, there are other chargers that are more efficient but I don't see them often or as cheap but you could look into that for your country. You probably want to get 4agze pistons if your going to run over 10 psi boost although it can be done on the stockers I run bluetop internals at stock boost on my setup and it goes real well and with a light flywheel barks up really nice with the light internals.

Blocks are real strong and are the last thing you will worry about its the internals that are the weaker point. Is it a redtop or blutop? If you have the larger rods that is a good thing. Also you'll need a good engine management system to tune it. Megasquirt? dunno pick your preference when it comes to tuning

[mr2tim]

Converting your NA to S/C?

Unfortunately, so many Internet cruisers now days believe this information will just fall into their lap, instead heresy, mis-information and inaccuracies by other wannabes is all you will read.

There are many super informative articles on this procedure in the “Forced Induction” and Mark 1 Archives section of this Website and, if, you are really serious about this procedure, other than just blowing hot air in this Forum chat room, you need to spend some very serious learning time reviewing this information and educate yourself, on your time.

The idea of changing your N/A car to Supercharged sounds easy but unless you’re a top flight mechanic, understand mechanical concepts completely, willing/able to understand and modify your wiring harness, and have time to search the country for limited production parts this idea may not be the thing for you.

So many inexperienced, newbee “car guys” believe the answer to all their performance problems is to just slap on a Turbo or a Supercharger and motor down the road. Unfortunately, and as in life, nothing is this easy or everyone would be doing it.

[328FTW]

To be honest I wouldn't bother with stock harness I would chop it out and rewire for stand alone. Just easier in the long run And to turbo you engine is not that hard it just requires a bit of messing around tuning (really important that bit), supercharging is a little more technical but not super hard I see people do it all the time round where I live. Turbo is easier because it doesn't deal with pulley speeds and where to put it. I <3 turbos if you do it right you will have great midrange and topend if you turbo match correctly

I have zero wiring ability and put a 3sge in my mkI just by reading diagrams over and over and over again then probing around with a multimeter. Also put a turbo on a honda but just putting a manifold on it and a rising rate FPR on it, chipped the computer and bam instant horsepower.

My mind just finds this a piece of chocolate cake not sure about OP though.

[88*mr2]

Originally Posted by mr2tim

Converting your NA to S/C?

Unfortunately, so many Internet cruisers now days believe this information will just fall into their lap, instead heresy, mis-information and inaccuracies by other wannabes is all you will read.

There are many super informative articles on this procedure in the “Forced Induction” and Mark 1 Archives section of this Website and, if, you are really serious about this procedure, other than just blowing hot air in this Forum chat room, you need to spend some very serious learning time reviewing this information and educate yourself, on your time.

The idea of changing your N/A car to Supercharged sounds easy but unless you’re a top flight mechanic, understand mechanical concepts completely, willing/able to understand and modify your wiring harness, and have time to search the country for limited production parts this idea may not be the thing for you.

So many inexperienced, newbee “car guys” believe the answer to all their performance problems is to just slap on a Turbo or a Supercharger and motor down the road. Unfortunately, and as in life, nothing is this easy or everyone would be doing it.

im not a moron i know that the internals of a car need to be able to handel the pressure a supercharger or a turbocharge puts out and that stock internals wont work with a high boost output. i know its not going to happen overnight or be cheap i may be new to the board but im not an idiot

[88*mr2]

Originally Posted by 328FTW

To be honest I wouldn't bother with stock harness I would chop it out and rewire for stand alone. Just easier in the long run And to turbo you engine is not that hard it just requires a bit of messing around tuning (really important that bit), supercharging is a little more technical but not super hard I see people do it all the time round where I live. Turbo is easier because it doesn't deal with pulley speeds and where to put it. I <3 turbos if you do it right you will have great midrange and topend if you turbo match correctly

I have zero wiring ability and put a 3sge in my mkI just by reading diagrams over and over and over again then probing around with a multimeter. Also put a turbo on a honda but just putting a manifold on it and a rising rate FPR on it, chipped the computer and bam instant horsepower.

My mind just finds this a piece of chocolate cake not sure about OP though.

so lets say i decide to turbo it im not looking for a ton of boost maybe 7-10 psi if i just wanted about that much wat would need to be done? (this is my first boost job i have only built older american cars with big engines so i dont know a ton)

[328FTW]

To turbo obviously you will need a turbo and manifold with dump pipe to get the exhaust gases flowing out the car while spinning up the turbo. You will need to make oil feed lines and water feeds if it is a water cooled turbo. You will also need a wastegate, internal or external doesn't matter so much as long as its the right psi, if you can get a low pressure internal wastegate actuator you can raise the pressure you can not lower the wastegate pressure on an internal actuator though unless you do some tricky stuff with the spring in it which is dodgy.

Having sorted the hardware side of things we move onto the fuel, I would suggest bigger injectors out of something else just to help not reach the injectors max duty cycle which burns them out. Then put on a rising rate variable Fuel pressure regulator, rising rate means it increases linearly (or not depending on rate) with boost because fuel pressure is the difference between the rail side and the intake side so under boost that difference is decreased due to intake pressure reducing fuel delivery which is not good. That is the fuel system prepped so you will need a way to control that, stand alone is your best bet here a full tune from a dyno or going up and down the road with a wideband O2 datalogging air/fuel rich is the safest and it will still make good horsepower rich despite the emphasis people have on perfect air/fuel, most people shoot for 11:1 air fuel on a home tune turbo and mess around from there, sounds rich but its not actually all that rich in turbo speak and if your really worried can run rich a little more.

You run it quite retarded (safe) to begin with and nail your fuel map then do ignition timing adjusting for boost and if your so inclined octane if its low. Boost I would set at 6 to begin with then bump to 8 once your happy, my friend ran 12 on an other wise stock b16A with 11:1 compression already......hand grenade much????

You will hav to find out a bit about your engine, ie bluetop, redtop and compression ratios. I have know the specifics of each one but learning about your engine is half the work so I'll leave that to you. Check out Homemadeturbo.com its mostly honda stuff but the search button turns up some awesome info also google is your friend you will need to learn a lot before you slap a snail on I could spoon feed you everything but then its technically my engine

[88*mr2]

hey im not really sure but i belive its a blue top...? lol how do ya tell?

[328FTW]

Normally the cam covers are either blue lettered or red lettered, its not definitive but is a good indication.

[88*mr2]

well mine is blue top... difference between the 2? one better than the other? if so how?

[MANDALAY]

Have a look at my thread SC Beams. You might want to consider the Rotrex

[328FTW]

Originally Posted by 88*mr2

well mine is blue top... difference between the 2? one better than the other? if so how?

Bluetop has smaller rods and lower compression and the redtop has larger rods and higher compression. The bigger rods are stronger but the compressions higher both have their pros and cons, ideally you want the 4agze internals including crank because they are very strong but as long as you don't want crazy horsepower they are not entirely necessary.

Sniff around the threads and various forums there is plenty of different ideas out there and ways to make boost, many many many ways. There are also threads on the different engine managements which you should look into. Only start once you are confident you can do it no good gathering the bits then realizing you don't know how to use them.

I'll point out there is an alternative to stand alone and that's a ignition retarder and variable fuel pressure regulator with bigger injectors although I can't recommend that over stand alone

[88*mr2]

lets say i go with stand alone will i need to change my wiring harness? lets say i want around 8-10 psi will i need to replace the rods, crank, pistons and maybe others? would it be easier if i just bought a 4agze? cuz i know where i can get one lol if i droped a 4agze would i need to do a tranny swap as well?

[mustclime]

Originally Posted by 88*mr2

hi i drive a 1988 mr2 n/a im looking to supercharge it and get some more hp out of it... suggestions on where to start? wat will be the things that i have to do to before S/C it? and where i would be likly to find the part(s)? can i S/c it if i dont build the block?

not for nothing but any a$$hat can hang a blower on a motor....thats easy if you have some means of making the brackets....the hard part is keeping the motor alive when the boost is added. When the boost comes on you have to increase fuel and retard timming or you will go lean and or burn and or blow stuff up...thats the hard part......you can talk to the guys at megasquert about a stand alone ecu or look at powercard's piggy back for some help but I am not sure it has been done.....if it were me, i would look into picking up one of the blower equiped motors from a jdm motor broker and get in contact with that MR220v guy and see if he can help out out with the harness....or do a 20v swap( black or silver top) and have that MR220V guy put togather a harness so the thing is plug and play....but thats just me.

[Jackstand Queen]

If fat wiring harnesses gives you nightmares. If tube bending machines aren't handy to you. If the math and electronics involved in wiring a standalone and then programming it with a laptop . . . pushes your limits. . .

You could just find a supercharged Mr2 at a junkyard and spend a day or two gutting it . . . then swap it in. SC's at junkyards are quite rare though.

Or you could buy a used SC motor from a japanese importer, stick with your N.A. transmission, and then scour these forums, and other forums, and junkyards for all the bits and pieces. Rockauto.com has voltage regs, ECU's, and ignitors. You'd also need the SC version of the AFM and TPS, and some VSV's. If you have pollution Nazi's like Kalifornia does, that would complicate things further.

In terms of time, and mental strain, I think going with a stock SC is easier than fabbing up a turbo and going standalone. And swapping in an SC engine isn't easy either. But I think its the easier choice.

I am lazy, and I admit.

[toyotaspeed90]

Lots of misinformation and idiots in here.

there are 3 4age 16V variants (4agze aside). Early bigports have smaller rods, smaller journals, and smaller wrist pins on the pistons. Late bigport have slightly larger rods, larger journals, and larger wrist pins, but have the same compression ratio. Smallport have the largest n/a rods, same size journals and wrist pins and the late bigport.

4agze's have an added oil squirter setup, as do the smallport n/a 4age's. US 4agze's have the same sized rods as smallport 4age's, but have lower compression, forged, ceramic top coated pistons.

The wiring of a standalone is easy -- messing with a stock harness of a car this old is pretty simple, everything is straightforward.

You can bolt SC12 pieces onto an n/a bigport 4age, it's been done time and again. Keep in mind that with higher compression and cast pistons the engine will be less reliable and if pinging starts you're pretty much done. That being said, it can be done for a relatively inexpensive cost if you watch ebay, since full SC12 setups go for $300-400 including harnesses, manifolds, brackets, etc.

Finding a supercharged MR2 at a junkyard is like finding a ferarri at a junkyard. You're really lucky if you found it, you're even luckier if there's anything still in it. Around here, even N/A's get pretty stripped down in less than a week.

Megasquirt has been done.... I like to believe I was the first to run it on a 4agze that retained the supercharger (by no means on an n/a or a turbo 4age). Tuning isn't hard and you learn a lot.

[toyotaspeed90]

BTW, not trying to offend anyone... but just bothers me when someone is trying to "school" another person with their knowledge and they themselves are far off base.

[Jackstand Queen]

I'd say everyone here posted something trying to be helpful, based on their own personal bias, abilities and knowledge. Its all just food for thought, for someone who might take a plunge on a challenging project.

Its idiotic to label posters "idiots" and then disclaim afterwards "BTW, not trying to offend anyone".

Although, I must admit that, the comparison of finding Ferrari's and SC's at junkyards was nicely phrased.

[88*mr2]

ok so i have one person saying its a real pain to do this and another saying its a piece of cake......um so......lets say i swap out the 4age for a gze, ecu will need replacement as well as harness? sorry for sounding so newbie lol this is my first import. older cars are so much eaiser lol. o and i found a few mr2s in yards around here i found a perfect 85 thats got some good parts on it that i can use for my body work and a 88 i havent checked out yet, and i found a s/c one however the engin is pretty stripped down, cant win em all i guess...

and i really appreciate all the information u guys are giving me its a huge help

[328FTW]

Yeah you need harness and ecu for the swap the afm 4agze from another 2 will drop straight in and bolt to the same box and clutch and plug up minus one dash light (Supercharger light). The map engine (from something like a gtz levin) bolts in no problem but needs some custom wiring to make it work. You can have a loom made for the right price from the old one (from the 4agze).

The other engine the 20v 4age comes from the levin as well and makes about the same horsepower it bolts in and up to the drivetrain as well but also needs wiring. Will need the ecu with it the ecus do not swap over from engine to engine at all and neither do the looms as a general rule.