stock or TRD 272 cams???

roy999 · 08-19-2006, 07:17 PM

HI there,

I'm presently running a rebulit 4AGZE MR2 with VF30 turbo, 660cc injectors, microtech MT-8 ECU, boost at 1.5bar.

I was wondering... If a change of Cams, from the stock 240 degree to the TRD 272 degree... Would it be better? or should i just stick to the orginal cams??

And i it seems that the con rods from the 4AGZE are no good for 300hp and above. Is that true?? If so, where can i order forged con-rods???

Help needed!!!

Thanks

CpuZapper · 08-19-2006, 09:59 PM

Here's a mixed response from this post, and your PM.

If you're running boost, don't use the TRD cams, they are for NA application. You want a cam with as little overlap as possible, and TedComponents up in Canada has just the part I think you need. He can also build you a port and polished head and machine it to fit the cams for a pretty decent price, completely shimmed and ready to be dropped on.

From TedComponents site:

Supercharged/Turbo Applications
15-20HP gain
1: KK294: 8.2mm/244 duration

**30-60HP+ gain
Machining to clear camshaft lobe and alternate valve spring required
2: KK108: 10.35mm/10mm/264/258 duration
3: KK108B: 10.7mm/262 duration
Cost- $650.00 Cdn

Also, the VF30 turbo should be ok for most stuff, but I'm definately a fan of the T3 platform for their many choices of housings, wheels, and internals. My favorite turbo for the 4age is still the T3 Super .60/.63 (Cold/Hot) for both decent spool, and some rocking top end. This turbo should support upwards of 300hp. If you really want low end, and are ok with some drop off at max revs, get a T3 .42/.48. I like it because it will produce more boost than a T2x series, and do it for longer. They are also really easy to find cheap rebuilt units, or even cheaper in the junkyard. I'd rather spend $2000 on 10 turbochargers, than on just one.

Also, I believe TRD had Carillo make their H beam rods but I could be wrong. Paradise Racing has Carillo Chromoly I beam rods which are pretty darn good, but they'll cost you a pretty penny. Occasionally, Formula Atlantic rods will come by which should also hold the power pretty well, and both should give you a little more flexibility in your final rev limit. I'd like to see some pics of your setup as it sounds pretty close to the new one I'm planning, with a few changes. Also, an external waste gate will give you a little more precise boost control, and since it is not in the exhaust housing, you won't have to worry as much about cracking the casting, however you do still have to make sure they don't cook, and destroy the diaphragm inside (though it takes a lot to do so).

roy999 · 08-20-2006, 12:44 AM

Thanks for the fast reply...

i've seen Subaru WRX benefits from a change of cams to the 272, and they were able to use a much bigger turbo, with lesser lag.

I was told by my mech that a change to 272 cams would produce much more power, and that i will be more realiable for high boost.

Btw, i've moved my battery to the front of the car, and installed a huge intercooler in the new space created, with a radiator fan mounted on it, with air blowing from top to down. But the air intake is still not cold enough. The weather in Singapore is about 30 degree C all year round!!!!

Its there any way to cool down the air intake? I've heard of using water injection (Aqua Mist) but its pretty expensive. Any other way??? How about air-water intercooler??

Many Thanks

roy999 · 08-20-2006, 12:51 AM

Hi CPUZIPPER,

what RPM does your fill boost comes in at? Using the T3 Super .60/.63 (Cold/Hot) Turbo???

My head is already ported and polished, using double metal gasket. My VF30 reaches full boost at about 4300rpm.

Weasy2k · 08-20-2006, 12:01 PM

Roy the cams are designed for N/A applications, if it was a TURBO cam then yes thats true. Instead with the TRD ones you are going to have to much overlap which will cause the intake boost pressure to go right out the exhaust as both cams are open (a good thing for N/A cams)

roy999 · 08-20-2006, 01:35 PM

Tks.

Anybody able recommend a good set of cams for me???

Weasy2k · 08-20-2006, 05:52 PM

The S/C specs is similar to what you want.
I can make any grind you want..Turbo/NA/SC and i currently have Billets avalible too for the 4a engine.

http://www.sea2skytuning.com/Product...oyotamain.html

roy999 · 08-20-2006, 11:22 PM

Been to the web site link.

What cams specs weould b good for turbo charged???

Weasy2k · 08-24-2006, 05:26 PM

that depends on what you are looking for power range wise (rpm)

roy999 · 08-25-2006, 11:05 AM

Just went dyno today.

Ive got 261hp on the wheels, at 1.4bar boost using VF30. Peak at 6500rpm. After tat, the power drops.... Torque max at 5800rpm at 325NM.

Tot of changing my turbo back to my TD05H 16G. Maybe able to hold power better.

My mech says that my 4AGZE cams are too mild, thus unable to hold power after 6500RPM.

Any help???

Weasy2k · 08-25-2006, 02:29 PM

Cams are the first thing to help that out....

The supercharger cams i have will definatly help you out up top. They are designed for both turbo and s/c. the only thing different you would do in a s/c setup is go with a more staggered setup.

roy999 · 08-25-2006, 04:38 PM

What cams r u using?

Make and model? Part number? Order from? How abt the valve and springs???

Thanks

Weasy2k · 08-25-2006, 04:42 PM

I get my own made

S2S Tuning ones...

If you want to go all out on the head then thats a different story in regards to valve spring and valves go

nick.parker · 07-23-2007, 01:13 AM

Maybe you should be asking yourself 'mid/top end power' (267) or drivability (240)? What about something in between?

I had Wade 267s (similar to HKS 264 cam). The torque below 2500-3000 rpm is affected (i.e its less) such that drivability is not as good. Torque around idle, like you use for pulling away from traffic lights is not as good, gotta get a few extra revs on board. Its not really hard to live with but you may not like it. Based on you having a 'big' turbo however perhaps this is acceptable.

Mista 2 · 07-23-2007, 08:43 PM

here are some HKS 272* with 8.1mm of lift on e-bay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-4...44684058QQrdZ1

roy999 · 07-24-2007, 04:36 AM

HI All,

im quite happy with my car now... Final Mod is done is is running well....

New GT28RS (Disco Patato) Turbo, water injection, 660cc injectors, boost at 2 bar...... with external wastegate... Microtech ECU

The GT28Rs is damn good... starts pulling from 3000rpm till 8000 rpm..

Latest power is 340bhp and 4.2kg torque.... all with a rebulit 4age engine...

BRANDO0o0O · 08-06-2007, 10:45 AM

If you're still on stock cams I'd highly suggest getting some aftermarket cams. I had a set of Web #101's on my built SC and they were very nice for a street/race cam. I would look into getting some cams to liven up the powerband then you can lower your boost some and make the same power more reliably (or make ALOT more power at your boost level)

Sounds like a pretty nice setup, pics? What kind of intercooler? W2A? A2A?

Brando

08-19-2006, 07:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
roy999 Roy AW11 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	stock or TRD 272 cams??? HI there, I'm presently running a rebulit 4AGZE MR2 with VF30 turbo, 660cc injectors, microtech MT-8 ECU, boost at 1.5bar. I was wondering... If a change of Cams, from the stock 240 degree to the TRD 272 degree... Would it be better? or should i just stick to the orginal cams?? And i it seems that the con rods from the 4AGZE are no good for 300hp and above. Is that true?? If so, where can i order forged con-rods??? Help needed!!! Thanks

08-20-2006, 12:01 PM	#5 (permalink)
Weasy2k 3.4L 10K RPM In the works Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,895 Thanks: 34 Thanked 80 Times in 66 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Roy the cams are designed for N/A applications, if it was a TURBO cam then yes thats true. Instead with the TRD ones you are going to have to much overlap which will cause the intake boost pressure to go right out the exhaust as both cams are open (a good thing for N/A cams) __________________ -Johnny @ Sea2Sky Tuning - www.sea2skytuning.com http://www.mr2.com/forums/sea2sky-tu...-out-sale.html

07-24-2007, 04:36 AM	#16 (permalink)
roy999 Roy AW11 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thank you HI All, im quite happy with my car now... Final Mod is done is is running well.... New GT28RS (Disco Patato) Turbo, water injection, 660cc injectors, boost at 2 bar...... with external wastegate... Microtech ECU The GT28Rs is damn good... starts pulling from 3000rpm till 8000 rpm.. Latest power is 340bhp and 4.2kg torque.... all with a rebulit 4age engine...

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08-19-2006, 09:59 PM	#2 (permalink)
CpuZapper RallyRacer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 480 Thanks: 7 Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Here's a mixed response from this post, and your PM. If you're running boost, don't use the TRD cams, they are for NA application. You want a cam with as little overlap as possible, and TedComponents up in Canada has just the part I think you need. He can also build you a port and polished head and machine it to fit the cams for a pretty decent price, completely shimmed and ready to be dropped on. From TedComponents site: Supercharged/Turbo Applications 15-20HP gain 1: KK294: 8.2mm/244 duration **30-60HP+ gain Machining to clear camshaft lobe and alternate valve spring required 2: KK108: 10.35mm/10mm/264/258 duration 3: KK108B: 10.7mm/262 duration Cost- $650.00 Cdn Also, the VF30 turbo should be ok for most stuff, but I'm definately a fan of the T3 platform for their many choices of housings, wheels, and internals. My favorite turbo for the 4age is still the T3 Super .60/.63 (Cold/Hot) for both decent spool, and some rocking top end. This turbo should support upwards of 300hp. If you really want low end, and are ok with some drop off at max revs, get a T3 .42/.48. I like it because it will produce more boost than a T2x series, and do it for longer. They are also really easy to find cheap rebuilt units, or even cheaper in the junkyard. I'd rather spend $2000 on 10 turbochargers, than on just one. Also, I believe TRD had Carillo make their H beam rods but I could be wrong. Paradise Racing has Carillo Chromoly I beam rods which are pretty darn good, but they'll cost you a pretty penny. Occasionally, Formula Atlantic rods will come by which should also hold the power pretty well, and both should give you a little more flexibility in your final rev limit. I'd like to see some pics of your setup as it sounds pretty close to the new one I'm planning, with a few changes. Also, an external waste gate will give you a little more precise boost control, and since it is not in the exhaust housing, you won't have to worry as much about cracking the casting, however you do still have to make sure they don't cook, and destroy the diaphragm inside (though it takes a lot to do so).

08-20-2006, 12:44 AM	#3 (permalink)
roy999 Roy AW11 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thanks for the fast reply... i've seen Subaru WRX benefits from a change of cams to the 272, and they were able to use a much bigger turbo, with lesser lag. I was told by my mech that a change to 272 cams would produce much more power, and that i will be more realiable for high boost. Btw, i've moved my battery to the front of the car, and installed a huge intercooler in the new space created, with a radiator fan mounted on it, with air blowing from top to down. But the air intake is still not cold enough. The weather in Singapore is about 30 degree C all year round!!!! Its there any way to cool down the air intake? I've heard of using water injection (Aqua Mist) but its pretty expensive. Any other way??? How about air-water intercooler?? Many Thanks

08-20-2006, 12:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
roy999 Roy AW11 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Hi CPUZIPPER, what RPM does your fill boost comes in at? Using the T3 Super .60/.63 (Cold/Hot) Turbo??? My head is already ported and polished, using double metal gasket. My VF30 reaches full boost at about 4300rpm.

08-20-2006, 01:35 PM	#6 (permalink)
roy999 Roy AW11 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Tks. Anybody able recommend a good set of cams for me???

08-20-2006, 05:52 PM	#7 (permalink)
Weasy2k 3.4L 10K RPM In the works Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,895 Thanks: 34 Thanked 80 Times in 66 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	The S/C specs is similar to what you want. I can make any grind you want..Turbo/NA/SC and i currently have Billets avalible too for the 4a engine. http://www.sea2skytuning.com/Product...oyotamain.html

08-20-2006, 11:22 PM	#8 (permalink)
roy999 Roy AW11 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Been to the web site link. What cams specs weould b good for turbo charged???

08-24-2006, 05:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
Weasy2k 3.4L 10K RPM In the works Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,895 Thanks: 34 Thanked 80 Times in 66 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	that depends on what you are looking for power range wise (rpm)

08-25-2006, 11:05 AM	#10 (permalink)
roy999 Roy AW11 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Just went dyno today. Ive got 261hp on the wheels, at 1.4bar boost using VF30. Peak at 6500rpm. After tat, the power drops.... Torque max at 5800rpm at 325NM. Tot of changing my turbo back to my TD05H 16G. Maybe able to hold power better. My mech says that my 4AGZE cams are too mild, thus unable to hold power after 6500RPM. Any help???

08-25-2006, 02:29 PM	#11 (permalink)
Weasy2k 3.4L 10K RPM In the works Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,895 Thanks: 34 Thanked 80 Times in 66 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Cams are the first thing to help that out.... The supercharger cams i have will definatly help you out up top. They are designed for both turbo and s/c. the only thing different you would do in a s/c setup is go with a more staggered setup.

08-25-2006, 04:38 PM	#12 (permalink)
roy999 Roy AW11 Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 27 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	What cams r u using? Make and model? Part number? Order from? How abt the valve and springs??? Thanks

08-25-2006, 04:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
Weasy2k 3.4L 10K RPM In the works Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,895 Thanks: 34 Thanked 80 Times in 66 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	I get my own made S2S Tuning ones... If you want to go all out on the head then thats a different story in regards to valve spring and valves go

07-23-2007, 01:13 AM	#14 (permalink)
nick.parker No Skills Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Maybe you should be asking yourself 'mid/top end power' (267) or drivability (240)? What about something in between? I had Wade 267s (similar to HKS 264 cam). The torque below 2500-3000 rpm is affected (i.e its less) such that drivability is not as good. Torque around idle, like you use for pulling away from traffic lights is not as good, gotta get a few extra revs on board. Its not really hard to live with but you may not like it. Based on you having a 'big' turbo however perhaps this is acceptable.

07-23-2007, 08:43 PM	#15 (permalink)
Mista 2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 461 Thanks: 16 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	here are some HKS 272* with 8.1mm of lift on e-bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-4...44684058QQrdZ1

08-06-2007, 10:45 AM	#17 (permalink)
BRANDO0o0O No Skills Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 10 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	If you're still on stock cams I'd highly suggest getting some aftermarket cams. I had a set of Web #101's on my built SC and they were very nice for a street/race cam. I would look into getting some cams to liven up the powerband then you can lower your boost some and make the same power more reliably (or make ALOT more power at your boost level) Sounds like a pretty nice setup, pics? What kind of intercooler? W2A? A2A? Brando