Gen3 Debate

[MuMan]

Originally Posted by Luni

When toyota dumped TVIS they compensated for it.

Gen3 head has larger intake runners and smaller head ports. The air velocity increases as it enters the head and thats how they do it on the gen3.

Gen2 head has smaller intake runners and larger head ports. Its a proven fact the gen2 head outflows the gen3 head by a small margin. Toyota increased the velocity of the air going in with tvis to increase torque.

The gen3 also has different timing curves to help out with torque/spool as well. I havent seemed to lose spool on my gen2 engine by running gen3 electronics.

If I was going to build an engine, Id prolly start with a gen2 since I have one. I still disagree that it isnt worth pulling a "perfectly" good gen2 for a good gen3. Id trade mine for a gen3 in a heartbeat.

I take your point, but don't entirely agree with it. The Gen3 intake runners, regardless of flow velocity, which in itself, will only get you so far up the CFM scale, don't have the flow capacity of the combined primary/secondary runners of the Gen2..shame the rest of the manifold design wasn't as effective. And lets face it, I don't think too many USDM's have effective T-Vis's..no reflection on Toyota.
The addition of a longer duration cam with higher lift was no doubt a compensating factor for the smaller intake runners.

I really think too much is attributed to the Gen3 engine, as a result of better electronics & MAP based system, along with all the other upgrades, least of which being bigger injectors & higher flow turbo.
The Gen2 has been hamstrung for so long with an L-tronic ECU & AFM, with all the issues of fuel dumping & lack of resolution. I still haven't seen a stock MAF based Gen2 capable of 300whp on pump gas, even with ROM tuned ECU's..and we all know any Gen2 is capable of far, far better.

Nobody can tell me that a mildly upgraded block & head with 2 manifolds attached is better than another one..simply because one has a Gen3 part number.
As I said, stock vs stock..definetely! but only because the Gen3 has all the goodies the Gen2 needs to overcome some inherent problems, that were no doubt put there for a reason..at least in some instances.

Anyhow..we're just starting this whole thing up again

[TreyMR2]

Can't we just go back to the good old, everyone has their own opinion. Lol The way I see it, if you want to mod your Gen2 just to equal my Gen3, thats awesome, you might save a little money on me. But, and its a big but, don't you think its kinda cool to pull up at a car meet or drag strip and have the ONLY Gen3 there? I've never even seen another one in person. Lol and not saying a Gen2 wouldn't, but my Gen3 is damn near bullet proof to me. The motor have NEVER failed to start in less than 1 sec. and has never broke down or shut off without me turning off the key. With that said, I ran 18psi for 7 months summer and winter, and love to run it threw the gears every now and then. All I have is a boost controller, intercooler, intake, 3'' DP, decated factory Gen2 exhaust, and a stage 3 clutch. I ran 18psi before I got the intercooler too. No problems at all. Turbo has zero shaft play and the oil is always as clean as it was when I put it in. It never leaks oil either. Now again I'm not saying a Gen2 couldn't do all this with the right mods but what I mean is it's just been so simple and extremely reliable to me. In my experiance I'd never go anything but Gen3.

[mister3]

Originally Posted by TreyMR2

Can't we just go back to the good old, everyone has their own opinion. Lol The way I see it, if you want to mod your Gen2 just to equal my Gen3, thats awesome, you might save a little money on me. But, and its a big but, don't you think its kinda cool to pull up at a car meet or drag strip and have the ONLY Gen3 there? I've never even seen another one in person. Lol and not saying a Gen2 wouldn't, but my Gen3 is damn near bullet proof to me. The motor have NEVER failed to start in less than 1 sec. and has never broke down or shut off without me turning off the key. With that said, I ran 18psi for 7 months summer and winter, and love to run it threw the gears every now and then. All I have is a boost controller, intercooler, intake, 3'' DP, decated factory Gen2 exhaust, and a stage 3 clutch. I ran 18psi before I got the intercooler too. No problems at all. Turbo has zero shaft play and the oil is always as clean as it was when I put it in. It never leaks oil either. Now again I'm not saying a Gen2 couldn't do all this with the right mods but what I mean is it's just been so simple and extremely reliable to me. In my experiance I'd never go anything but Gen3.

excactly... and we recommend your type BPU/HP range to go gen3... but in CA still have smog nazis to worry about so unless it's cheat smogged every 2 years it's really not the greatest option.

[TreyMR2]

Lol yeah I can understand that. Personally if I lived over there, I'd probaly have went beams or V6. Some way to stay N/A.

[mister3]

Originally Posted by TreyMR2

Lol yeah I can understand that. Personally if I lived over there, I'd probaly have went beams or V6. Some way to stay N/A.

v-6 = basdardize a perfectly good MR2 IMO... worthless pile of junk w/that swap.

BEAMS is OK just too high strung for my likeing... at least a little TQ before 5k is nice

and NA isn't what it's cracked up to be.... unless you have a LS6 or something... lol

[Sang]

Originally Posted by mister3

and NA isn't what it's cracked up to be.... unless you have a LS6 or something... lol

But then again...you can always remote mount a couple turbos on an LSx...

[mister3]

Originally Posted by Sang

But then again...you can always remote mount a couple turbos on an LSx...

of course a boosted engine is always better than non boosted. everyone i drag race with is turbo, s/c, nitrous... whoever isn't is much slower for some reason... dunno why...

YouTube - grudge night racing at sacramento...

1st car -- silver camaro = turbo'd = high 8s
2nd car -- gold camaro = turbo'd = high 7s
3rd car -- primered nova = nitrous = mid 9s
4th car -- orange nova = NITROUS = high 7s
5th car -- silver mustang = NA = low 12s
6th car blue/white 5.0 = turbo = mid 9s


so the jist of this is... forced induction ROCKS! and NA sucks =D

[TreyMR2]

Originally Posted by mister3

v-6 = basdardize a perfectly good MR2 IMO... worthless pile of junk w/that swap.

BEAMS is OK just too high strung for my likeing... at least a little TQ before 5k is nice

and NA isn't what it's cracked up to be.... unless you have a LS6 or something... lol

Originally Posted by mister3

of course a boosted engine is always better than non boosted. everyone i drag race with is turbo, s/c, nitrous... whoever isn't is much slower for some reason... dunno why...

Lol well of course boosted faster. Its pretty obvious I agree with that being I went Gen3. Honestly if I lived over in cali or somewhere with emissions I probaly wouldn't have an MR2 in the first place. Since your gonna kill your emissions with almost anything you do to it to make it fast.

[mister3]

Originally Posted by TreyMR2

Lol well of course boosted faster. Its pretty obvious I agree with that being I went Gen3. Honestly if I lived over in cali or somewhere with emissions I probaly wouldn't have an MR2 in the first place. Since your gonna kill your emissions with almost anything you do to it to make it fast.

NOS brand is 50 state legal

[TreyMR2]

No offence to anyone that uses it but I think nitros is just BS horse power. Like pretty much any stock car can't handle large enough amounts of it without it hurting them, so I'm not saying some cars that are built for it can't handle it. I just think, if its something you have to fill up and can only use so much of and at certen times, that its not fair horse power. I like how turbo's and superchargers are. The only way I'd ever do nitros is if it was for a pure drag car. Never on my DD or something.

[mister3]

Originally Posted by TreyMR2

No offence to anyone that uses it but I think nitros is just BS horse power. Like pretty much any stock car can't handle large enough amounts of it without it hurting them, so I'm not saying some cars that are built for it can't handle it. I just think, if its something you have to fill up and can only use so much of and at certen times, that its not fair horse power. I like how turbo's and superchargers are. The only way I'd ever do nitros is if it was for a pure drag car. Never on my DD or something.

the "nitrous" debate has been going on soooo long... only losers cry about it really... on the street/track it's "run what ya brung... and if you lose you didn't bring enough" -- so with that philosophy in mind you make sure you head out "equipped"

but i do agree on the DD point... wouldn't want to run nitrous through it and expect anything to last for 200k miles..... but boosting will also break stuff.... best way to keep a DD IMO is bone stock.

[TreyMR2]

I run like 9-10 psi for the most part DD now days. I only crank up the boost every now and then. When I first did the swap I was boost happy though so it was 18psi EVERYWHERE. Lol Surprisingly nothing broke.

[Lj_yay_area]

Originally Posted by rhouck

and I see people selling their ct20bs straight off the clips they get for the same price as a ct27... soooo if they wanted to they could just do that...

the fact that you can tune a Gen3 with just boltons and an SAFC to 300+ rwhp (no larger injectors, no turbo upgrades, etc) is pretty impressive imo...

100% STOCK a gen3 w/ 245 crank hp can run ~13.7 through the 1/4 mile.... that's a pretty damn big jump over the gen2's numbers

will yu need larger injectors if yu upgrade to a gen 3?