Gen3 Debate

[Alex]

i've only recently started to research the mr2 "package" as i slowly tire of honda performance (affordable performance, that is), but is the extra 20 hp of the gen 3 really "worth it" over the g2 for a full grand? Does the g2 have serious issues that the g3 doesn't? It makes sense what rhouk said about buying the g3 and selling off parts to make up the $$ difference. But not if your swapping in from a non turbo mr2, kinda need the turbo at least.

You're not paying for the extra 20 hp. You're paying for the better turbo, injectors, cams, and intake manifold. In other words after you start modding and crank up the boost you can make a LOT more power than on a gen2 (using stock turbo, intake mani etc.). The CT20B turbo alone is worth around $700. Basically if you plan to not go with a turbo bigger than the CT20B then a gen3 may be the best bet for you. But there are a lot of other factors involved that I think have all been covered here and at mr2oc.com

[daver]

Originally Posted by Alex

You're not paying for the extra 20 hp. You're paying for the better turbo, injectors, cams, and intake manifold. In other words after you start modding and crank up the boost you can make a LOT more power than on a gen2 (using stock turbo, intake mani etc.). The CT20B turbo alone is worth around $700. Basically if you plan to not go with a turbo bigger than the CT20B then a gen3 may be the best bet for you. But there are a lot of other factors involved that I think have all been covered here and at mr2oc.com

There's no question that the g3 in the better swap to get. Newer, more refined, better potential from simple mods. But for some people, 225hp is fully enough, for less than half the price. Goals have to be weighed, and one should determine at what level they are willing to be satisfied with, before they spent their money and end up disappointed with their choice.

d

[mister3]

Originally Posted by daver

There's no question that the g3 in the better swap to get. Newer, more refined, better potential from simple mods. But for some people, 225hp is fully enough, for less than half the price. Goals have to be weighed, and one should determine at what level they are willing to be satisfied with, before they spent their money and end up disappointed with their choice.

d

i just hate hearing how the gen3 blocks like to crack... or customers waiting for months for a specific gen3 part which is keeping their car from running or paying top $$ + for parts from the dealer or...........

yeah -- gen3 rocks

[MR.2000GT]

gen3 rocks!

haha. this thread is still going?

[Dennis]

OK, one correction on the gen III to gen II differences, boost limit/fuel cut on 94+ is 16psi not 12psi.

And for the stock versus stock form of gen II & gen III for drags, i must be an exception, as I ran 13.7 @ 99.3mph 14psi, that's faster than wut most 3rd gen in southern cali is running with the exception of blueprint and cory.

[Dennis]

Originally Posted by Nacho

SW20 MR2 (2nd Gen) - Includes 3S-GTE Engine, 5-Speed LSD Transmission, and Fuel Pump $2,895
SW20 MR2 (3rd Gen) - Includes 3S-GTE Engine, 5-Speed LSD Transmission, and Fuel Pump $3,995

Engine builds only cost 1.1k?

whoah, i should raise my engine prices then...

Gen II with LSD Clip is $2300.00
Gen III with LSD Clip is $3500.00

and with shipping to the lower 48 states, it'll only cost $425.00 to a commercial address, that still leaves you ~$250 extra. i think ima raise my prices to add ~250.00

just kidding guys.

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by Alex

You're not paying for the extra 20 hp. You're paying for the better turbo, injectors, cams, and intake manifold.

And LSD, and better synchros, and later crossmember, and revised gearing, and no AFM, and......

Hp ratings alone don't tell about the differences in the area under the curve, better powerband, and extra response the later motor gives.

[redvalkyrie]

Okay, what about parts and servicing a GEN III? I'm sure you can get parts eventually from Japan through online dealers but what about diagnosing a problem? I can go to my BGB and know what to look for when troubleshooting a GEN I or II (I and II share just about every part, right?) but there are no English BGBs available for the GEN III.

[redvalkyrie]

Bump for my questions.

Thanks
JP

[Tyler H]

Originally Posted by redvalkyrie

Okay, what about parts and servicing a GEN III? I'm sure you can get parts eventually from Japan through online dealers but what about diagnosing a problem? I can go to my BGB and know what to look for when troubleshooting a GEN I or II (I and II share just about every part, right?) but there are no English BGBs available for the GEN III.

There is a wide range of support options on Gen3. Most of the CEL codes are the same. Most of the basic troubleshooting is the same. Jeff Watson at Champion Toyota in TX can get Gen3 parts for great prices and has most common stuff on hand.

Parts and troubleshooting is not a concern for me. 95% of my USDM BGB is still applicable.

[redvalkyrie]

There is a wide range of support options on Gen3. Most of the CEL codes are the same. Most of the basic troubleshooting is the same. Jeff Watson at Champion Toyota in TX can get Gen3 parts for great prices and has most common stuff on hand.

Thank you for your reply. Is this the general consensus among everyone? No worries on parts or troubleshooting?

This is my main concern as I do all of my own work. In Oklahoma there is NO one that could provide any type of support for a GEN III if a problem did arise.

My goal is only 280bhp (I guess about 240rwhp?) but I want it to be an extremely reliable and easy to maintain 280bhp. It seems that a GEN III would be the easiest and cheapest way to this goal.

Thanks
JP

[Tyler H]

I think Gen3 is far and away the best option, given your power goals. I haven't had mine dyno'd yet, but there are a lot of folks that don't believe me when I tell them it only has 245ps. (I.e. Mustang Cobra and Pontiac GTO drivers.)

The only parts concern is if you need something that isn't in stock. It could take 3-4 weeks to get. Most of the stuff that isn't available is engine internal and other major stuff that is going to leave you stranded. Mine isn't a daily driver and I don't have an active race campaign, so this is no concern for me.

If you are handy and do all of your own work, you'll have no problems. There are a lot of resources for tech info, the BGB is still good for everything but the drivetrain and ECM, and there are wiring diagrams available for those online.

No worries. Get a good clip and you wont be disappointed. Champion generally stocks tune-up parts, t-belts, t-stats, etc. Most of the routine stuff you'll need unless you're f'd in the a anyway.

[canadam]

Why do people argue about the GenIII Vs. whatever all day long, but noone ever mentions the GenIV 3S-GTE ?

[rhouck]

much more difficult swap (in terms of wiring)?

[redvalkyrie]

Why do people argue about the GenIII Vs. whatever all day long, but noone ever mentions the GenIV 3S-GTE

I've only seen one GEN IV swap and I don't see any being imported...maybe a lack of resources is the reason no one mentions the GEN IV?

I think Gen3 is far and away the best option, given your power goals. I haven't had mine dyno'd yet, but there are a lot of folks that don't believe me when I tell them it only has 245ps. (I.e. Mustang Cobra and Pontiac GTO drivers.)

The only parts concern is if you need something that isn't in stock. It could take 3-4 weeks to get. Most of the stuff that isn't available is engine internal and other major stuff that is going to leave you stranded. Mine isn't a daily driver and I don't have an active race campaign, so this is no concern for me.

If you are handy and do all of your own work, you'll have no problems. There are a lot of resources for tech info, the BGB is still good for everything but the drivetrain and ECM, and there are wiring diagrams available for those online.

No worries. Get a good clip and you wont be disappointed. Champion generally stocks tune-up parts, t-belts, t-stats, etc. Most of the routine stuff you'll need unless you're f'd in the a anyway.

Thanks. It sounds like we use our cars in similar manners. My SW20 gets driven less than 3000 miles a year because I have a daily driver and I really don't want to autocross it anymore. I have the daily driver AW11 for that. My SW20 is really only for my enjoyment and is a long term project.

I guess it's a GEN III for me.

[tigerpee]

i personally would go for Gen2 since there more parts readily available. However, if this is my weekend car, I'd go with Gen3.

[twoseatterror]

Originally Posted by GReddySetGO

I used to have a USDM turbo motor, and have since gotten a Gen3. I must say it was worth every penny, and if I had to do it all over again, I would go Gen3 first.

Ditto.

You can beat it to death, but there really isn't a need for a more powerful setup then a BPU'd Gen 3 swap, unless you are looking to go over the edge.

[twoseatterror]

Originally Posted by tigerpee

i personally would go for Gen2 since there more parts readily available. However, if this is my weekend car, I'd go with Gen3.

Mine has been a daily driver for almost 2 years now. There are several parts similarities between the 93 USDM and Gen 3 JDM motors. The only major parts differences when it comes to maintenance are the intake, exhaust, and valve cover gaskets. These parts can be ordered through Champion Toyota. Unfortunetly there is an 8 week turn around, but how often do you need THOSE gaskets?

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by twoseatterror

Mine has been a daily driver for almost 2 years now. There are several parts similarities between the 93 USDM and Gen 3 JDM motors. The only major parts differences when it comes to maintenance are the intake, exhaust, and valve cover gaskets. These parts can be ordered through Champion Toyota. Unfortunetly there is an 8 week turn around, but how often do you need THOSE gaskets?

Whats up man?

I met you at Dave's batchelor party, and have since gone on to the gen 3 side of MR2-land, as per you two's reccomendations.

As for the gaskets, i have most of a complete head gasket set on hand at any time 'just in case'. Even U Sspec 3SGTE/MR2 parts from toyota don't have the best turnaround time.

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by redvalkyrie

My goal is only 280bhp (I guess about 240rwhp?) but I want it to be an extremely reliable and easy to maintain 280bhp. It seems that a GEN III would be the easiest and cheapest way to this goal.

Thanks
JP

I got 253 rwhp on my gen 3 swap w/ simply a K&N on a stick, greddy sidemount IC, and autolab downpipe and exhaust. Stock boost.