Gen3 Debate

[Ncturnal]

I think ChrisK at Engine Logics still has a new & complete Gen 3 gasket kit I sold him a while back.

[Nacho]

Originally Posted by Ncturnal

I think ChrisK at Engine Logics still has a new & complete Gen 3 gasket kit I sold him a while back.

I reccomend that someone get a hold of him and pick it up if he's selling it.

The ceramic turbine in the turbo and the gasket differences were the biggest concerns for me w/ the gen 3. So far neither has been an issue, but it's best to be safe than sorry. And waiting months for a part to come in to finish an otherwise decent turnaround repair is killer

[TurboMan]

Checking out the debate here for the 3sgte I would go gen III. If you ask why here's a few reasons it looks better, much more simplified especially when working around bulky components like the huge afm and the twin intake ports vs the single on the genIII. It's nearly a stock fit anyways with around 20% increase in power over the US/CDN models and if your putting it in yourself you'll know it's a pain to do all the work by yourself may as well spend the extra cash and enjoy the extra ponies. After you can enjoy the fruits of your labour and try modding it even more. I bought so much stuff like the Greddy stainless exhaust, big brakes new tires 245/35/17 for the front Toyo T1S' around $3000.00 in extra's that I haven't put on yet this summer like I wanted to. So whatever you do make sure it's gonna make a difference cause other wise it's pointless. Gen II waste of time stick with the US version and slap on a Gen III turbo that's 90% of the difference anyways.

The V6 is gutless 3.0L camry, avalon, es300. The 3.4L is junk wouldn't waste my time can't be bothered with all the extra wires for the same power as a gen 3. Wait till you do the exhaust manifolds ohhhh yeah here we go.

If you insist however on having a MR2 V6 get the 2GR-FSE 3.5L V6 Lexus IS350 engine it makes 306HP and 277lb/ft torque. By the way you need to get a camry transmission cause the lexus is rwd.

[analogvoid]

This thread has been a very informative read for me. I'm planning on purchasing a 90's N/A MR2 and dropping a turbo motor into it. It was a choice between the GEN2 and GEN3. I was looking to see what would be the best value/results for a daily driven MR2 with around 300rwhp. It seems that the GEN3 is easier to make streetable with those numbers, while also being newer, etc. I feel it is worth the extra money for what my goals are. I think, though, if I was shooting for a car for the dragstrip, putting down some serious power with seom serious engine work I would go with the GEN2.

[hmong337]

Gen3 is so tempting and makes reasonable sense if you're shooting in the 300hp range. And even better if you're 5SFE'd right now and plan to turbo swap. It just doesn't make sense why you'd want an engine that you can't find parts for; or have a hard time locating parts. This is the only big draw back that I see with the Gen3.

[analogvoid]

Parts aquisition could be an issue. What percentage of the parts on the GEN3 are not available in the US.

[mister3]

Originally Posted by analogvoid

Parts aquisition could be an issue. What percentage of the parts on the GEN3 are not available in the US.

the percantage is pretty small BUT the majority of those parts will keep your car from running or running properly.

several of us are working on a solution to these issues and hopefully will get gen3 parts in stock most all the time.

[analogvoid]

The gen3 is very tempting.. but because I want to use the car as a daily driver, i think that it's best to play it safe with a gen2.

[Dumbscout]

lol, I was thinking that going with the Gen IIII would be the safe way to go, for a daily Driver.

[47mr2's]

Originally Posted by kblake

Ah, my bad-I didn't have your setup memorized. The top end power difference between my plot and yours is negligible, especially in light of the fact that you were running 1 more PSI of boost than I am.

You are holding a fair bit more power on top than the stock Gen 2, showing the benefits of the larger intake cam and better intake manifold. Nonetheless, both Gen 2's have more area under the torque curve, despite your slight top end advantage. Both Gen 2's are running conservative street tunes, designed to last for at least 100k miles.

We all know that what wins a race is more "the nut behind the wheel" than which car has more power. If you were beating those other cars, it is likely that it's because you are a better driver than the guys driving those other cars.

Didn't that motor blow up? I hear Dvaidv's gen3 is still running strong. Oh btw so is my same unopened gen3. This is the exact reason I have a gen3. I wonder how you feel about Chrisk's opinion on gen3 head flow now. You are obviously crucifying him at this point. May be you'll disagree with his testing now. I'll keep my gen3 and I've had many of each gen2 and gen3. How's your Supra?

[3sgtepower]

With $500 in bolt ons, my NA to T 3rd gen that I bought for $6500, ran 12.8@108.3mph on bald street tires and a 90 degree day.

I suspect its capable of 11's when I get the new sb50 on there, and some DR's maybe.

[redvalkyrie]

BTW, since this discussion started, I've had the opportunity to drive two Gen 3's, one with BPU, the other with a KO SB50. They were both lag monsters. (IMO) I'm not surprised by that really, since stock vs. stock, the Gen 3 reaches peak torque about 1000RPM later than the Gen2, despite it's quicker spooling stock turbo.

Can you go into a little more detail about your experiences here? What qualifies as a "lag monster" in your opinion?

[imweip]

My Gen3 was by no means a lag monster, but it did have a top mount IC instead of side mount, it cut out a lot of IC piping with that method.

[47mr2's]

Originally Posted by imweip

My Gen3 was by no means a lag monster, but it did have a top mount IC instead of side mount, it cut out a lot of IC piping with that method.

I've owned 4 diferent gen3 setups as well and I wouldn't call them lag monsters either. My current uses the st205 a2wic and it has no lag. The throttle response is unreal on it. I am running the stock turbo with no tunning or boost controller as well. I did have a chance to compare this to my friends gen2 with ATS rom tune for 550's, berk ic and ct-27 @18 psi. My car outspooled it in the low end by quite a bit in fact it stayed ahead by at least 3 cars the entire time. This was a rolling start as well My last one used the blitz dsbc specr with the greddy ic. It was by no means laggy either. In fact it was hard to drive without being on boost all the time. It dynoed @17psi on pump gas 270 whp and 275ftlbs of torque keep in mind I am at 5000ft. I do like the gen2 motor but I must say the gen3 is superior out of the box. I am not a guy who believes in rebuilds. Every built or rebuilt engine I've seen leaks oil and doesn't go the miles. I don't want to have to fix my car and I will sell an engine that leaks oil and replace it with one that doesn't. Rebuilt alternators are in the same boat. A used alternator with reasonable miles will last way longer than a rebuilt one will. I like to drive my car so low mileage newer gen3 motors are the choice for me.

[PETC]

So, I'm seriously considering a Gen III swap this summer with some BPUs, and the best gasoline we have around here is 92...

What *exactly* do people mean when they say it has a hard time running on 91/92? I'd like this to be explained further, as I think it will help me make my decision.

To me the Gen III is everything I want in a turbo conversion right out of the box, and the numbers that people are putting down with basic BPUs are astonishing.

[47mr2's]

Originally Posted by kblake

The BPU car didn't start really moving until just before 4000RPM. The SB50 car was quite a bit later than that.

You must not have driven very good ones then. That is the only thing I can think of to explain lag monster driveability. May be you are just too used to the Supra at this point. I know supra's with the stock turbos hit boost pretty quickly. My car currently without a boost controller hits 15 psi by 3500 and 7psi by 2300. This is not what I would call laggy. When I had my boost controller on my last setup it spooled even quicker. A ct20b on a gen3 spools much quicker than it does on a gen2 without question.

[PETC]

Anyone want to help cover this Gen III and 91/92 octane fuel thing for me a little more in depth?

[Matt94MR2]

Originally Posted by PETC

Anyone want to help cover this Gen III and 91/92 octane fuel thing for me a little more in depth?

I run 92 octane in my Gen3 and IMO it is fine at stockish boost levels although certainly not optimal. Sometimes when the weather is real warm I can feel it pull a little timing in the higher gears. I usually throw a couple gallons of race gas in it if I'm going to the track or running more then 15psi or so.

Originally Posted by kblake

BTW, since this discussion started, I've had the opportunity to drive two Gen 3's, one with BPU, the other with a KO SB50. They were both lag monsters. (IMO) I'm not surprised by that really, since stock vs. stock, the Gen 3 reaches peak torque about 1000RPM later than the Gen2, despite it's quicker spooling stock turbo.
Ken

Hi Ken, I think "lag monster" is a bit of an exaggeration for a BPU Gen3 . Although it does have a higher boost threshold then a CT26 powered Gen2 I much prefer the more linear powerband of the Gen3. I too had the opportunity to drive John's car and while it was a little laggy it more then made up for it once the power hit. I'll let you drive my car sometime if you want to since I still owe you one for letting my drive Deuce Coupe and converting me to the dark side .

[Luni]

My buddy Borinal has a Gen3 here in Utah and he has a Mines ECU and he runs 91 octane and his car NEVER Pulls timing, it never has an issue with spool, cold starts, or anything like I experience in my Gen2.

The only thing I can say bad about the Gen3 is that whole coolant passage/cylinder wall thickness issue thing that several people have had problems with cracked coolant passages between 3 and 4.

Other than that, Gen3 is the way to go IMO. In order to make the Gen2 comparable to a Gen3, it would cost more than 1000 dollars for sure. The price is worth it. Especially if you just want to enjoy it and not mod it to the teeth.

Getting a Gen2 engine to over 300hp safely is alot of work. Getting a Gen3 one is just a turbo kit and maybe a fuel pump away.

[mister3]

Originally Posted by Luni

My buddy Borinal has a Gen3 here in Utah and he has a Mines ECU and he runs 91 octane and his car NEVER Pulls timing, it never has an issue with spool, cold starts, or anything like I experience in my Gen2.

The only thing I can say bad about the Gen3 is that whole coolant passage/cylinder wall thickness issue thing that several people have had problems with cracked coolant passages between 3 and 4.

Other than that, Gen3 is the way to go IMO. In order to make the Gen2 comparable to a Gen3, it would cost more than 1000 dollars for sure. The price is worth it. Especially if you just want to enjoy it and not mod it to the teeth.

Getting a Gen2 engine to over 300hp safely is alot of work. Getting a Gen3 one is just a turbo kit and maybe a fuel pump away.

the MINES ECU has alot to do with running low octane and car behaving correctly.... on the gen2 engines i can run 87 just fine but if i swap to the JDM OEM ECU it'll pull timing like no other.... MINES is just more forgiving