Gen3 Debate

[PETC]

You crazy Martins and your MK1.5 Gen 3 swaps.

[Martin]

crazy we are....

[driftartist]

what is a gen 3? im sorry im so new to this. i havea 1993 turbo and im thinking that is a us gen 2? i thought the gen 3 was the MRS spyder? or is there a gen 3 3sgte? im confused...

[3sgtepower]

Christ, how can you even own a 3sgte and not know it had updated versions of it, much like any other motor like the 5.0's in mustangs changing to fuel injection, or LT1 to LS1 Camaro's.

Did you even know they continued to make the MR2 after they quit importing them after 1995, much like most other Japanese sports cars?

The gen 3 was a major upgrade over the gen 2, theres a video on here of a stock JDM gen 2 mr2 running 14.2 and a stock JDM gen 3 mr2 running a 13.3 in 400m (8ft shy of a quartermile). They didnt sell them to America in 1994, probably because it couldnt pass certain states strict emissions testing, plus the car was getting discontinued from unfavorable exchange rates as an import, and they would have to retune or lower its timing to allow for the American states taht only sell 91 (ugh!) octane fuel.
Although I will admit that when I took my gen 3 motor to the emissions place with a catyltic converter on it, I got less than 1/3 of the emissions requirements on 2 of the tests, and half the limit on another requirement, mine had an easier time passing emissions than my USDM gen 2 did which came very close to failing (but that was a 140k motor, and my gen 3 prolly around 50k)

The next generation of MR2 is referred to as the MKIII MR2 to help clarify that there talking about the MKIII MR2 and not the 3rd gen 3sgte.

[PETC]

Dude.... calm down... lol

[mister3]

Originally Posted by 3sgtepower

Christ, how can you even own a 3sgte and not know it had updated versions of it, much like any other motor like the 5.0's in mustangs changing to fuel injection, or LT1 to LS1 Camaro's.

Did you even know they continued to make the MR2 after they quit importing them after 1995, much like most other Japanese sports cars?

The gen 3 was a major upgrade over the gen 2, theres a video on here of a stock JDM gen 2 mr2 running 14.2 and a stock JDM gen 3 mr2 running a 13.3 in 400m (8ft shy of a quartermile). They didnt sell them to America in 1994, probably because it couldnt pass certain states strict emissions testing, plus the car was getting discontinued from unfavorable exchange rates as an import, and they would have to retune or lower its timing to allow for the American states taht only sell 91 (ugh!) octane fuel.
Although I will admit that when I took my gen 3 motor to the emissions place with a catyltic converter on it, I got less than 1/3 of the emissions requirements on 2 of the tests, and half the limit on another requirement, mine had an easier time passing emissions than my USDM gen 2 did which came very close to failing (but that was a 140k motor, and my gen 3 prolly around 50k)

The next generation of MR2 is referred to as the MKIII MR2 to help clarify that there talking about the MKIII MR2 and not the 3rd gen 3sgte.

gen3 is still OBD0 where as cars sold 96 or newer had to be OBDII compliant.... that's most of the reason behing them discontinuing them.... along with sales, prices, exchange rates, etc.

[driftartist]

dont bag on me cause im not familiar with your terminology inthe first few days of joining the forum and also just purchasing a "mk2" a week and a half ago. im here to learn hence my question. not the most familia with the mr2 timelin ok jackass? sorry...****

[driftartist]

true...ill keep it cool from now on. my bad

[T@ZM@N!@C]

http://www.toysport.com/webpages/New...o/FYI3SGTE.htm
Can any one can clarify this information from Toysport

[PETC]

What made us come to that name? And what is it technicly?

[T@ZM@N!@C]

What is the big difference between those turbo ct20b & ct26? is the ct26 of 7mgte and the ct26 0f 2nd gen 3sgte is the same in diameter, turbine, bolt-in etc..

[PETC]

I've never heard of anyone having problems with the CT20B beng too fragile...

[PETC]

It's a very largely propagated myth that Japanese people have to get rid of their cars at or before 50K miles. It's simply not true.

And I'm not saying what you're saying isn't true, but I've been around for nearly four years now, and I've never heard once of a CT20B going out in a way that was any more abnormal than the CT26s go out. I think if it was a common problem it'd be talked about more frequently.

Perhaps it can happen just like rodknock can happen if you don't take care of your turbo? I'm interested in the fact that you brought this up because I have a Gen 3, and would like to know about any weaknesses the CT20B has. What do you consider high boost, and if the weakness is in the turbo, does it have anything to do with improper cooldown or possibly oiling issues? I imagine those combined with a lighter internal ceramic structure might lead to premature failure.

[PETC]

Most of the clips I've seen come from either front end collision cars, or cars that were sold at auction by repo guys, cut, and shipped to the states.

They're mostly low mileage not because of the fact that they sell them on purpose, but because 50K miles driving around Japan is ENOURMOUS. It can cost you hundreds of dollars to drive somewhere in Japan, so lots of people just don't drive a lot.

As I said, I wasn't saying you were wrong... I've just never seen a thread about a CT20B failure where the turbo hadn't failed just like all the CT26 failure threads I've seen. Most were just old and blown or had too much shaft play, but I've never seen a thread that came to a conclusion about a CT20B failing simply because it was made differently.

I'm probably wrong, but I'd like to know more. Feel free to post to the OC, I've done it before, and as long as it's part of an intellectual discussion I don't see why it should be a problem.

[Luni]

The 20b failure I have witnessed was a result of a fragged EGT probe tip.

The tip fragged, went through the turbo, and shattered the turbine. A steel wheel would have survived but it would have messed it up pretty damn good.

[47mr2's]

Ive had 3 of them fail on different cars. The oil seals usually go out on them. They aren't meant to run more than 17 psi. It doesn't have anything to do with oiling. The fact is they are not as durable as a USDM Ct26. Apparently there is a ct20 with a steel blade available on the later year st205 celica. I've never had one so I can't confirm but they are supposed to be good to 20 psi. I tend to think running 20 psi on a stock turbo is probably not the brightest thing to do but most people could care less what I think. That's why I could care less when they blow their motor.

[T@ZM@N!@C]

Im Very interested with this topic coz i have a 3rd gen mr2 also

The 7MGTE CT26 will bolt up to our exhaust manifold, but will not fit the down pipe. You would have to have a custom down pipe made. The turbo is single entry instead of twin entry, and has a slightly larger compressor wheel, with a better flowing turbine than the MR2 CT26

To ken for you what turbo will you recomend much better, the ct26 from 7mgte or the stock ct26 3sgte tnx

[T@ZM@N!@C]

Originally Posted by kblake

If you have the means to fabricate a custom down pipe, the 7MGTE CT26 is somewhat better than the 3SGTE CT26 in terms of peak power. IMO, unless you also upgrade the compressor side of the turbo off the 7M, it's not worth all the work to get it on there.

Thank you Ken

[mister3]

i have also seen and had MANY CT20b turbos with either blown seals, broken turbine wheels, etc..... must times if the seals are worn bad enough they become almost unrebuildable..... i think currently i have 3-4 sitting in the shop in pieces.....

also have had at least 10 JDM ceramic turbine CT26 with chipped turbine blades, wheels broken off, etc but usually they are more durable (i just get more gen2 clips in) over the long haul

i however have seen 1 and only 1 USDM turbo with steel turbine wheel break off.... was rather weird

[RageLtMan]

roflmao - i just read this whole thread from start to finish, you guys are nuts.

my $.02: in my quest for an MR2 i've driven a lot of them, enough to make my head spin. In the end, i got a 91 N/A with a 3rd gen done right. Here's why: the 2nd gen cars, even those with very high peak power, weren't nearly as smooth, or even as fast. Problem is that the owners who build their cars up for power are often the kind that like to brag, not drive. I'm a former owner of two porsches (924S and a 951) and i'm an avid fan of going for a long drive down some windy roads. The 2nd gen cars, with the great peak power are useless for that - by the time they build up all their tremendous boost your on the brakes so hard that it hurts. my 3rd gen, with nothing but intake and exhaust is perfect for this application as it delivers awesome acceleration right off the bat (and continues to pull hard in case i find that one long sweeper to stretch its legs).

The only stock 2nd gen i drove was a 91 and thoroughly dissapointing despite being in a great state of tune (i accidentally stepped out the tail presuming that it had an LSd and could stomach a fast turn - all my prior cars had LSDs). The common comment of "only 20hp" difference doesn't take into account the muscle car type powerband of the 3rd gen (yeah yeah, flame me, i know it doesn't make nearly as much, but power to weight ratio is the most important thing in a car - ask mcclaren or lotus about that).

Lastly, a buddy of mine bought an elise a while back and i had the privilege of driving it around with him. I believe that on paper the lotus is faster, but even though its a lotus modified 1,8 toyota engine, it doesn't deliver like the 3rd gen (or 2nd gen) by any means. However, that car gave me a hardon for mid engine setups with light weight and no BS (i am not a boxter fan, despite its great characteristics, only the S has enough power to do anything right and its still a lil heavy IMHO). My car has no power steering, no ABS, and no whiners allowed in the passengers seat - i'm a fan of old school sports cars to the point where i even considered a mk1 despite it looking like a deformed cheese wedge. Being lighter, the elise is definitely the better handler (then again, i need bigger tires, mine chirped in 3rd on the way home after buying it), but with a few chassis mods (strut bars!!!) and better rubber the MR would be on par, AND have more torque for a fraction of the cost.

While not being a toyota expert, i know a little bit about driving and the sheer tractability and response of the 3rd gen was what sold me - hell, i never thought i'd even drive one when i got in the market for an MR.

Questions:

what's a safe rev limit on the car? mine's stock far as i know which means 7500, i've heard of people running 9k though, how is that accomplished, and how bad of an idea is it? I dont plan to run high often, but i'd like the safety of a few thousand RPM in case i do something stupid and need the range to keep myself out of a tree.

chassis wise, AFAIK i'm still running th 91 rear end - i've seen more debate about the swap than i've read about religion. Any definitive answers? i wasn't about to kill car owners test driving their MRs so i never really got the full taste of the 93 setup , am i missing out? also, what's a good way to go for the strut braces?

Lastly what's the deal with this "other board?" What is it, why so taboo? If its got useful info for us, why can't newbies like me know about it? Someone PM me a link plz :-D
thx