Gen3 Debate

[MuMan]

This is a marathon thread!
I really can't see the issue between Gen2/Gen3 or USDM/JDM for that matter as any serious quest for performance means that most of the so called upgrades are going to finish up in the bin anyhow.
As for low mileage Gen3 imports, the wholesaler that I know, who buys them for export, says that most cars, that are knocked back on mileage turn up the following week with 42,000K on the addometer. Most of these are shipped to NZ for compliancing and distribution to the Southern Hemisphere, others are cut into clips and sold to dealers..few are smash vehicles.
Other than that, chances are that your low K 1/2 cut has spent most of it's life sitting in Tokyo traffic jams, idiling away for hours on end.
Just thought I'd mention it

[RageLtMan]

actually found it right after i posted, still dunno what to think of it.

I need a dyno plot, stat. I'm coming to think that there's something amiss here, either this thing is really in a great state of tune, or (more likely) the others i drove suck the large one full time - and are currently either being sold, or have been sold, to poor bastards like myself (as i almost bought 2 of em).

How can you tell if your ECU's been chipped/modified? I thought that wasn't done w/ Gen3s... all i can see here is that the BOV vents externally, the intake is a cone type seated low in the assembly, and that my cat resides in the rear trunk awaiting MA emission tests. That being said, that's from the few photos of 3rd gen engines i've seen, and god knows what's even stock around here

MuMan - my target is 300rwhp, nothing crazy. I want good response and driveability, with decent fuel economy, and a fun-to-drive factor of 10. That said, i wouldn't mind the bump in power just so as to eat the avg street contender in a quick pull if they're being belligerent (the SiR's 350z and US v8 crowd around here, oh, and those pesky subaru's too)

[Sang]

Originally Posted by RageLtMan

How can you tell if your ECU's been chipped/modified? I thought that wasn't done w/ Gen3s...)

Usually there will be a sticker or some form of identifying it on the case. Or you can open up the case and take a gander. But they have modified gen3 ECU's, it just costs more than doing it on a gen2 ECU...

[RageLtMan]

if i open up the ECU to look inside for mods - it'll be like my girlfriend popping my frunk to look for the spark plugs (women + cars = funny stuff, presuming you keep them from doing any damage): i wouldn't know a modified ECU from a stock one unless i know what to look for.

Also, where does one get chips for these things? How are they connected? (i'm a sys engineer in the 'real world' and can sodder, but would rather not risk roasting the brain without serious potential gain in performance/driveability/economy/etc and a good set of directions written for a grunt).

[Husler]

This thread maybe dead but for the record, Its alot of arrrogance with the gen3 community. I have nothing against gen3's but my big prolem is Ken is bring facts to the table and you guys just bash it which is plan stupid. I have my gen2 which has been pretty reliable until i turned the boost up and my fcon wasnt tunded for that and blew the rings. I opted for another gen2. why its cheaper can make the same power, it comes with 36,000km (i dont know the conversion in miles) and i got it for just 800 usd. so u gen3 guys out there before u go bashing on a gen2 and how the the gen3 is better the gen 2 has the same capabilities as the gen3 so it boils down to the same thing ken was talking about and u guys were ignoring your goals. because any smart person who is buying an engine to build would not buy a gen 3 which is almost a grand more expensive.

[Sang]

Lol at this thread. I wasn't "active" on this forum back in 2005...I thought this place and "MR2 Pride" was one in the same, heh. So I hardly came after signing up.

I tried reading through this thread...couldn't take much more when I got to somewhere on page 3. Then attempted to skim through the rest and got bored again at page 6

FWIW (and based on whatever I read in the first 6 pages) - I agree with Ken. I also feel that the gen2 head is great "design" regardless of having shim over buckets. I, personally, haven't seen a head spit out a shim. At least not on any "mild" builds with revs down near 8K rpms. I believe Aaron is only using valvesprigns on his 600whp beast still isn't he?

As far as the intake ports, i'll take those over the gen3 as well. Although, "larger", the TVIS (which some people seemed to have bashed in this thread) is a GREAT piece of equipment. With a gen3 head, you can ONLY have "small port" and "small runner" intake manifolds. Using a gen2 head, I would MUCH rather prefer to have stock runners using a modified plenum while actively controlling TVIS. Properly tuned TVIS makes for greater velocity at lower RPMS when the butterflies are close, then you get the full fledged "big port" volume when they are open on the top end.

It's a win-win situation, i don't know why more gen2 owners don't take advantage of it.

[Husler]

Sang I agree with you. You have to admit though if you spent 3500 on a gen3 clip and someone spent 1,500 on a gen2 engine harness and ecu and the remainder spend in mods and beats you in a q/m it would be lame. so those guys have to justify spending tha money. and one more point i have tried it you will never have enough power so if thats their argument i aint buying it. I have a few friends right now who are building gen3 swaps which is just plan dumb. just my 2 cents

[Ncturnal]

$1500 for a complete Gen 2 clip in good condition is an unrealistic price, and if you did find one at that price, that would be the exception, not the norm.

[Husler]

oh i am sorry i get my stuff straight from japan. you guys have to buy from a reseller. I have a gen2 3sgte i got for 800minus ecu with 25,000km how bout that. contacts. soon imma be speaking japanese

[Husler]

Originally Posted by Ncturnal

$1500 for a complete Gen 2 clip in good condition is an unrealistic price, and if you did find one at that price, that would be the exception, not the norm.

Also the gen 3 guys i can get all the parts for service for the gen3 engine

[TreyMR2]

Originally Posted by Husler

You have to admit though if you spent 3500 on a gen3 clip and someone spent 1,500 on a gen2 engine harness and ecu and the remainder spend in mods and beats you in a q/m it would be lame.

My whole reason for going Gen3 was, whats gonna be better for me in the long run. The thing is, I can do way less work to the motor making it more reliable and still run a pretty quick 1/4mile. All I have is a boost controller, intercooler, intake, and a 3'' DP, and its plenty fast for me right now. From what I've seen on here it should be anywhere from 270-290ish WHP, depending on my motors condition compared to the people on here that have dyno'd theirs. IMO if your gonna leave the motor basically stock for a little while or are going from an N/A definitely go Gen3. If you already have a Gen2 turbo, I'd go JDM Gen2 or just mod the crap out of your existing motor. Thats just my out look on it though.

[Husler]

Originally Posted by TreyMR2

My whole reason for going Gen3 was, whats gonna be better for me in the long run. The thing is, I can do way less work to the motor making it more reliable and still run a pretty quick 1/4mile. All I have is a boost controller, intercooler, intake, and a 3'' DP, and its plenty fast for me right now. From what I've seen on here it should be anywhere from 270-290ish WHP, depending on my motors condition compared to the people on here that have dyno'd theirs. IMO if your gonna leave the motor basically stock for a little while or are going from an N/A definitely go Gen3. If you already have a Gen2 turbo, I'd go JDM Gen2 or just mod the crap out of your existing motor. Thats just my out look on it though.

That makes a whole lot of sense. I just hate to hear people beat down a gen2 motor that can make the same power. If you proceed about the project in a smart way. And i get all my stuff from japan. Contradicting what most board members think the JDM market has an abundance of parts for the gen3 motor.
Dont get me wrong i think the gen3's are great lets not just bash the gen2 which is quite capable.

[TreyMR2]

exactly, if you already have a gen2 its not a bad motor just you'll have to do a little more work from its stock form to reach the same power as a gen3. That doesn't mean more money though since Gen3 stuff is usually more expensive.

[Husler]

Originally Posted by TreyMR2

exactly, if you already have a gen2 its not a bad motor just you'll have to do a little more work from its stock form to reach the same power as a gen3. That doesn't mean more money though since Gen3 stuff is usually more expensive.

Finally after all this time on the ninth page we get some sense...

[sickof5sfe]

I agree...N/A to turbo-gen3 all the way...but those that swap in a gen3 over the gen2 they already have is nonsensicle and all they seem to prove is that they can do it...i dont see much of a benefit in that at all IMO...btw just outta curiosity how high can the stock internals of a gen3 be pushed before a rebuild is needed?

[Ncturnal]

Originally Posted by sickof5sfe

I agree...N/A to turbo-gen3 all the way...but those that swap in a gen3 over the gen2 they already have is nonsensicle and all they seem to prove is that they can do it...i dont see much of a benefit in that at all IMO...btw just outta curiosity how high can the stock internals of a gen3 be pushed before a rebuild is needed?

DavidV is running 400 HP on a stock bottom-end Gen 3 and has been well over the 300 mark for over 7 years, and it has seen many hours on the track during that time.

Put me in the category of going from Gen 2 to Gen 3 as well. When you figure the price of what I sold the Gen 2 for, then going to Gen 3 wasn't all that crazy. You'd easily spend the difference trying to ditch the AFM and buying a CT-20b, so even Gen 2 to Gen 3 isn't as crazy as you might think, if you are able to sell your Gen2. If you play your cards right, a parted out Gen 2 can pay for the Gen 3 in full.

[sickof5sfe]

ah that's good to know...my hp goals are around 350-400hp so i shouldnt have to worry about it too much

[Ncturnal]

Originally Posted by sickof5sfe

ah that's good to know...my hp goals are around 350-400hp so i shouldnt have to worry about it too much

One of the big keys to his outstanding reliability is proper tuning, so do bear that in mind. An improperly tuned Gen 3 (or any Gen) can pop at 250 HP.

[TreyMR2]

are yall saying 350-400WHP or crank HP?

[sickof5sfe]

wheel