New findings on 2.0 ct20b GenIII w/mods

[Emily Hux]

After backing up results with many runs on my stock GenIII I looked forward to the results of a customer car that had the same package but with mods:

Completely stock unbuilt motor 2.0 GenIII
HKS 264 cams
ACCEL dfi
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Hux air intake mod
3" single tip exhaust

93 octane- 289 rwhp / 297rwt @17 psi
100 octane- 305 rwhp / 333 rwt @19 psi

We modified the actuator and found the ct20b is quite responsive and easily made 30psi @ 4200 rpm (that is where we abruptly let out!).

This resulted with:
334 rwhp / 377 rwt @ 4200 rpm shutoff

Obviously the limits have not been found, please do not try this!!

[Bern]

Originally Posted by Emily Hux

After backing up results with many runs on my stock GenIII I looked forward to the results of a customer car that had the same package but with mods:

Completely stock unbuilt motor 2.0 GenIII
HKS 264 cams
ACCEL dfi
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Hux air intake mod
3" single tip exhaust

93 octane- 289 rwhp / 297rwt @17 psi
100 octane- 305 rwhp / 333 rwt @19 psi

We modified the actuator and found the ct20b is quite responsive and easily made 30psi @ 4200 rpm (that is where we abruptly let out!).

This resulted with:
334 rwhp / 377 rwt @ 4200 rpm shutoff

Obviously the limits have not been found, please do not try this!!

Hi Emily,

I'm a noob, but am interested in your research, thanks for posting up!

My question is, can you give a more exhaustive list of mods? for example, I'm guessing you raised the boost with a boost controller? It just seems a really really short list of mods to get huge power. What is giving you those numbers on 93 octane? Is it tuning?

[jdchmiel]

can you post teh graph of that just out of curiousity? be interesting to see how modified actuator affects spool up time compared to say the 19 psi dyno.

[MRtuned]

would you happen to have the dyno charts? I'd like to see the power curve.

[califcarm]

Originally Posted by Emily Hux

After backing up results with many runs on my stock GenIII I looked forward to the results of a customer car that had the same package but with mods:

Completely stock unbuilt motor 2.0 GenIII
HKS 264 cams
ACCEL dfi
Walbro 255 fuel pump
Hux air intake mod
3" single tip exhaust

93 octane- 289 rwhp / 297rwt @17 psi
100 octane- 305 rwhp / 333 rwt @19 psi

We modified the actuator and found the ct20b is quite responsive and easily made 30psi @ 4200 rpm (that is where we abruptly let out!).

This resulted with:
334 rwhp / 377 rwt @ 4200 rpm shutoff

Obviously the limits have not been found, please do not try this!!

Great findings.

Did you modify the actuator with the "helper" spring that I suggested in the other thread? Or did you use another method? (please share if the other method how you did it).

I thought the CT20B would respond well if given a tight holding wastegate door. Nice to see it proven.

What boost was the 334whp/377rwt made at? I am assuming that run was made on 100 octane? Leanest AFR?

edit: just realized you said you made those numbers at "shut off", which I assume would be 4200 rpm, even for the 334whp? WOW if that it the case. At least we know the CT20B will flow enough air to make good numbers. It will be interesting to see what boost it can hold (and therefore power) until redline if you get the boost control sorted back out.

[TreyMR2]

Hey I've been wanting to know about what power my car is making. Maybe you can give me a range of what to expect when I finally get it dyno'd. Its a completely stock internals Gen3 running 17psi, ems intercooler, intake, 3'' DP, walbro 255L fuel pump, and polyurethane motor mounts. My guess was 270-290WHP. I just want to know how close I am with the stock setup to my goal of 300WHP.

[bugalu]

i have know the gen 3 is where it is at for years, glad to see others are catching on.

from my experience they actually make power like 4g63's, sr20's and the such. i dyno'd 311whp cam'd on a baby turbo and 15psi.

[ixtlann]

I would like to see more info on this also!

[Bern]

Originally Posted by bugalu

i have know the gen 3 is where it is at for years, glad to see others are catching on.

from my experience they actually make power like 4g63's, sr20's and the such. i dyno'd 311whp cam'd on a baby turbo and 15psi.

All I know is the Power Primer, and it's instructions for getting 275rwhp...

What mod do you have to get your 300+ rwhp? Is it just the cams? I was always under the impression to get 300+rwhp, a turbo upgrade is something necessary (above the ct26 (duh) and ct20b)...but does this mean that a ct20b is a good turbo to run for 300rwhp?

[Sang]

Originally Posted by Bern

What mod do you have to get your 300+ rwhp? Is it just the cams?

Bugalu is running a GT2871, IIRC.

Originally Posted by Bern

I was always under the impression to get 300+rwhp, a turbo upgrade is something necessary (above the ct26 (duh) and ct20b)

It is, if you want to see 300whp day in and day out and reliably

Originally Posted by Bern

but does this mean that a ct20b is a good turbo to run for 300rwhp?

No one's ever questioned the ct20b's/ct27's ability to hit 300whp. It's at what boost pressure and how reliable it is to do that everyday that is in question.

Even with Emily's and the rest of the Hux crew's testing. On a gen3, with cams, you still need upwards of 18+psi to hit 300whp. That is at, or past, the the fine line between everyday pump gas power, and once in a while race gas only power for a few seconds you are racing at the track.

[Bern]

Thanks Sang,
so it's all about the difference between daily reliability and occaisional peak track time...I think I'm getting it...

[Sang]

Emily,

Do you use the Accel DFI on all your vehicles? Have you guys had problems with the stock ignition system to call a need for the switch?

[Emily Hux]

The GenIII w/mods has a sbc ID blitz boost controller. We are removing this since we cannot get consistent boost levels.

Having the combination of a DFI and using a dyno w/wideband allows for the best results for finer tuning & driveability.

We did not use a helper spring for modifying the actuator. Will share the way we did it once there is consistent safe results.

The dyno log showed @29 psi on the run where we let out at 4200rpm (334rwhp/377rwt) 100 octane was used for that. We let out due to being on stock injectors. On the 100 octane pulls the leanest a/f was 12.5:1.

You should expect @300rwhp on 93 octane w/o a turbo kit or a dfi. You can review my other post results on my own street GenIII. (this car has run @ 300rwhp for the last 4 years on 93 octane daily driven up to 75 miles a day at times since the GenIII swap). I run 100 octane for insurance at the track w/higher boost.

After building a GenIII many years ago and seeing the the hp numbers soar on every level, I wouldn't bother building a GenII. In the past we consistently made 800rwhp for the street class NHRA and now have 1006rwhp with the Scion TC (expect 1200 rwhp once tuned).

[Emily Hux]

I posted the dyno sheet under my gallery titled "1991 GenIII w/accel dfi".

We should have results in the next couple of weeks on an AEM system on a GenIII.

[Emily Hux]

[TreyMR2]

Originally Posted by Sang

No one's ever questioned the ct20b's/ct27's ability to hit 300whp. It's at what boost pressure and how reliable it is to do that everyday that is in question.

Even with Emily's and the rest of the Hux crew's testing. On a gen3, with cams, you still need upwards of 18+psi to hit 300whp. That is at, or past, the the fine line between everyday pump gas power, and once in a while race gas only power for a few seconds you are racing at the track.

so basically what your saying is I'm probably not gonna hit 300WHP with my gen3 without upgrading the turbo? I'm not running any more than 17psi since its my DD.

[Emily Hux]

You should see @300 rwhp w/o upgrading. Just 3" exhaust, electronic boost controller,4" air intake, FCD, & @16-17 psi on 93 octane. As I stated before, my own mr2 was daily driven this way for 4 years with the above ad ons. Our other customer cars have experienced about the same hp with simple changes.

[TreyMR2]

^what about an intercooler? Are you guy's running the stock SMIC, aftermarket SMIC, or a TMIC?

[Sang]

Originally Posted by TreyMR2

so basically what your saying is I'm probably not gonna hit 300WHP with my gen3 without upgrading the turbo? I'm not running any more than 17psi since its my DD.

What i'm saying is just this: Outside of the results from Hux Racing, all dyno's that i have seen of mostly stock gen3's do not reach 300whp until you are into boost pressures requiring race gas. 19+ psi.

Back in the day, Dave jenny needed 22+ psi to barely break 300.

This is what I have seen to be "typical" results from a gen3.

This is a local owner's car in Tampa/St.Pete FL area. Dyno was done at XAT Racing and 20psi with MINES ecu.



This was just one example of what I, personally, have found to be "typical" stock gen3 results. Up until Emily/Hux Racing posted their graphs, "typical gen3 results" and "300+whp pump gas" did not go in the same sentence with the ct20b.

That is all.

To get comparative, 3rd party results outside of Hux Racing. I encourage you to dyno your gen3 Trey, on a DynoJet. And come back with your results please.

[Emily Hux]

I still have a stock IC with enlarged IC plumbing to the throttlebody with factory ECU on my green mr2.

We have that dyno sheet, as well as personally knowing the owner. His car ran a 12.37 at the track with a stock IC.