ABS brakes - good/bad?

[goddom]

For some reason, I am under the impression that having non-ABS brakes is more desirable. Maybe I got that impression from someone who prefers to be the most "pure" driver without any fancy gizmos like ABS.

Whats your guy's opinion?

[phzoinkMKII]

I've seen them refered to as all of a sudden brakes suck.

[MR2TRD1]

For a large car like a sedan or truck I would argue ABS brakes are a must. For a small light car like the MR2 or any other sports car I wouldn't want ABS. I have no ABS and no powersteering...the best setup IMO. I've slammed on my brakes in numerous emergencies and never locked them up. ABS is for people who cannot drive....you know the mom with 3 kids in the back seat, 1 kid on the way, trying to recent the DVD for each child's TV while she is talking to the dude she's cheating on her husband with and driving a Tahoe @ 80 thru a redlight....those people. haha...sorry. I ride a bike as well and these people piss me off since its so much easier for me to lose my life.

[Sylvan]

ABS is probably most helpful on sucky road conditions where you have bumps, gravel, rain water, etc. and unexpected situations force you to jam the brakes hard. It's more of a piece of mind thing. On a track, where each turn is expected and you have the mindset to anticipate braking you probably don't need ABS at all unless you're just not a very good sporty driver. My MR2 has ABS and I'm cool with that. The only time I've really needed it was in the rain. My civic doesn't have ABS, and one time I tried to stop at an intersection and ended up sliding halfway into it because the road was wet. Luckly no one was around to see. But on dry pavement, I can stand on the brake pedal on the freeway and it won't lock, because those brakes are pretty wimpy.

[MX450248]

I locked my 93 turbo up at an intersection one time, on dry pavement. The abs light was on and it didnt kick in. I have it in my truck and would not trade it for the world, I plow snow with it so it is a must. Even in a light car, abs is good to have cause it will let you stay in control cause the front end wont lock up and take the steering away.

[Gairloch]

I wish I knew what month it was from but GrassRoots Motorsports did a big test/write up on this.

IIRC What they found was that for drivers new to their test track having ABS and stability control engaged resulted in faster laptimes in all conditions. For drivers that know a track it didn't make much difference in the dry and improved their times in the wet.

When it comes right down to it you are almost always better off with ABS than without it at least in newer cars. The ABS in older cars wasn't nearly as good though so that might not be as true with anything older than '95.

[kbrew8991]

I've driven both, I'll take ABS please

the system on the MR2 is pretty well setup, and that is a VERY VERY car specific question so whatever someone tells you about how it sucks on their Integra, or 240, or Mustang, or (you get the point) doesn't mean JACK about how it is for the '2

If you want, I'll link you to some data traces for my ABS car, it puts down some impressive decel curves

things like this get banned from racing because it takes some skill out, not because its "dangerous". There is no reason to ban something that will make you slower

[goddom]

If you want, I'll link you to some data traces for my ABS car, it puts down some impressive decel curves

Yeah I would like that.

Thanks.

[kbrew8991]

Category:Toyota MR2 Telemetry - Trackpedia

Carolina Motorsports Park and Mid Ohio have the best data, Roebling and Road Atlanta were from ~2005 when I was still learning to get the car out to the limits consistently.

[goddom]

Good stuff. I had no idea you can get that kind of read out on your car. How do you get that information? You have some crazy GPS computer thing in your car?

[Gairloch]

That's exactly what he's got. He's got a GPS recorder focused on grabbing information that would be of interest to a racer.

[mopwer]

I've found it very handy on my 93. You can lay on the brakes and not have to worry about them locking up.

Greg

[sleepermr2]

the point of ABS is so you can turn while braking. although, usually stopping distances are much shorter with a non ABS equipped car. but ill take a car with ABS any day

as mentioned above, it also depends on the kind of ABS and vehicle its on. meaning, 3,4,5 channel, ect.

[chuck]

...a little side story about my BAD experience with ABS.

i was young and though it'd be a great idea to do a burnout in the school lot....in traffic...in a crown victoria....with abs

so the ground it wet and i light them up quite easily...i go to roll off the break and i get the instant ABS release-grab-release-grab-release-bang...personally i don't like the car doing anything i don't tell it to.

i fell like abs takes a little of the "machine" factor out of a car...my be good for a family car but i would say no in a performance situation.

[mopwer]

Not all ABS is made equal. I had an issue with my 00 Dakota. If I was on the brakes moderately and went over a small bump (enough to lock up the front tires for a fraction of a second) the ABS kicked in and it took too long to stop on dry pavement! Never an issue with my MR2 though. It doesn't come in until necessary and it pulses very fast. Haven't noticed it causing stopping issues like the Dakota did.

Greg

[Gairloch]

Originally Posted by sleepermr2

although, usually stopping distances are much shorter with a non ABS equipped car.

This is not true at all. A machine will always be able to dance the traction threshold better than a person just because we don't always know when the tires are skidding and when they're rolling.

If you lock up the brakes and go into a skid the vast majority of your traction goes away.

[sleepermr2]

Originally Posted by Gairloch

This is not true at all. A machine will always be able to dance the traction threshold better than a person just because we don't always know when the tires are skidding and when they're rolling.

If you lock up the brakes and go into a skid the vast majority of your traction goes away.

thats why i said usually there're too many variables that come into play when trying to compare this.

but bottom line, IMO ABS gets my vote

[Tyler H]

Nobody can out-brake ABS, period.

[mopwer]

Originally Posted by Tyler H

Nobody can out-brake ABS, period.

...as long as they work when they are supposed to (ie my Dakota).

Greg

[kbrew8991]

Originally Posted by Tyler H

Nobody can out-brake ABS, period.

as long as its a decent system, yes