Squeaking

Timon · 04-18-2008, 02:44 AM

So now that I have some cash available, not much - but some, I plan to fix the single mechanical deficiency my car currently has. One of the belts squeaks on start up.

It is like any other belt issue where it squeaks horribly loud, with one exception, it doesn't continue. From a cold start it squeaks for a few minutes at the standard 2k rpm idle, however revving the engine to 3-3.5k (of course makes the squeaking louder) stops it from squeaking. Now that it has stopped, I can freely drive around with no further issues at all.

If I stop the squeak by revving the engine at the beginning of a cold start, it will stop, but if I go into reverse before the vehicle is to normal operating temperature it will start to squeak again.

Another note, when squeaking, at night if I have the accessory lights on and I start the car, the lights struggle in sync with the squeak, and once the squeak stops, the lights are perfectly normal. This leads me to believe the squeaky belt is the alternator belt, but I've been wrong many many times previously about random things.

I unfortunately do not know the maintenance records of any belts other than the timing belt was replaced ~1k miles before I got the car. I've visually inspected the belts and they seem to be in good condition. Could it be a loose belt? I've had someone tell me it could be a "glazed" belt, which he explained as the belt may have absorbed some form of liquid (further search into this pulls up various fluids contaminating the belt, which is not a known issue).

Any suggestions on what is squeaking, why it is squeaking, and how to fix it?

Ben · 04-18-2008, 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timon

This leads me to believe the squeaky belt is the alternator belt, but I've been wrong many many times previously about random things.

Probably right

Quote:

Could it be a loose belt?

Yes, it could.

Quote:

I've had someone tell me it could be a "glazed" belt, which he explained as the belt may have absorbed some form of liquid (further search into this pulls up various fluids contaminating the belt, which is not a known issue).

A glazed belt is a true explanation. Glazing can be caused by a loose belt - think of the belt slipping a little bit as it goes around the pulleys. When this happens the belt surface gets "polished" and becomes slippery causing belt squeal. Weather is also a factor.

Fluid contamination is also a factor. A majority of the time, oil leaks onto the drive belts = squeal. Belt noise in the early morning/first start can be caused by water condensation on the belts too.

Quote:

Any suggestions on what is squeaking, why it is squeaking, and how to fix it?

A new belt would be the ultimate answer. But if the belt is in good condition, adjust the belt tension. If you want a good band-aid immediate fix, throw some baby powder on the belts - you will be amazed

Timon · 04-18-2008, 10:00 AM

If water condensation is what is causing the belt to do it, then would it still be worth looking into replacing or just doing the band-aid fix?
I'll inspect the belt again to be sure, and I'll see if I can find a tensioner gauge to see if it's lose, they do seem expensive for a single use. I know depending on the belt they measure in different units, a common one seems to be pounds, what should it be at?
If there are any cracks or excessive smoothness on the inner part of the belt, then I'll just replace it.

Pratt · 04-18-2008, 12:48 PM

I have a similar situation albeit not nearly as bad. My 2 between 3-4K rpm on moderate to heavy throttle rattles/squeaks. If you are gentle on the throttle there is no noise. It only does it however from 3-4K rpm and no other time. I did not think it was the belts so I have been furiously hunting for loose bolts, items vibrating etc. Mine does not squeak all through the lower rev ranges like Timon's.

The funny thing is that I just switched to the Powermax filter set-up and that is when I noticed the squeak, but I have disassembled the Powermax and put the old airbox on there and it does not go away.

Anyone have anything similar?

Ben · 04-18-2008, 12:49 PM

Don't buy a belt tension gauge. A good way to test belt tension is to compare it to another car. Feel the way a belt feels on a new car, and feel the way the belt feels on yours. If it is water condensation, there nothing you can really do other than park the car in the garage. As you mentioned, if there are cracks or excessive smoothness (or the belt is shiny) replace it; otherwise the baby powder trick will work.

Timon · 04-18-2008, 01:38 PM

Well, my guess, after further examination about 5 minutes ago, it's either water condensation (which I doubt considering its ~60-65*F here and it still squealed at startup) or it's loose. I checked and the belt looks brand spanking new - the labeling around the belt giving the brand name (I think) and a model number has no wear or fade at all. This time I got under the car and felt all around the belt as much as I could between the pulleys and there is no smoothness. I played around a bit with the belt, tugging it and pulling it side to side. It seems to stay well, but it isn't death crunching tight.

I guess the first thing I'm going to try is to tighten the belt a little bit. Looking at it, the easiest way seems to be moving the alternator more towards the back of the car. There is an adjustment bracket right above the alternator with a bolt in it. Can I loosen that bolt, move the alternator back as much as possible, and tighten it back up? This in theory would tighten the belt, I'm not sure if it will stop the squeals, but could it hurt anything?
Otherwise I'll resort to baby powder, as Ben suggested. I'm assuming to do this just powder up the belt, particularly on the inner part of the belt that actually touches the pulleys?

Ben · 04-18-2008, 01:55 PM

Just don't over tighten the belt. And the baby powder does go on the ribs of the belt - don't be afraid to get a handful and throw it all in there.

Ku-sama · 04-18-2008, 04:59 PM

mine squeaked, I tightened it and it helped a lot.... but I replace my alternator and replaced both my AC belt and my alt belt.... both had excessive cracking/chunks missing in the grooves.

Timon · 04-18-2008, 11:07 PM

I'll double check when I tighten it to be sure there isn't a section cracked, chunky, or excessively smooth.

Thanks for the help guys, I'll keep you updated on the results.

Timon · 04-20-2008, 09:16 PM

1 hour cool down + 1 pry bar + 1 crescent wrench + 10 minutes = 0 squealing

.

No baby powder was harmed during the fixing of the problem.

Mista 2 · 04-21-2008, 05:40 AM

good to hear you got it sorted. there are belt grip sprays if it somes back and the belt is still tight

mr2tim · 04-26-2008, 07:04 AM

Hmmm everyone has this covered w good advice.
(Baby powder really?)
Old lazy racers used fan belt dressing for belt noise, he he.
Kinda gooy stuff.

(since your new to mr2's)
Nobody's mentioned the water fill pipe under the alternator.?
You may be tightening your alternator by leverage w a screwdriver perhaps?
If you do your probably up against the water fill pipe.
Opps...by the pit crew..

Always check this water fill pipe joint when your done.
It'll leak real slow and it's hard to see when it leaks. (Faster if it's hot)
If it leaks replace the O-ring on it, don't try to recycle the o-ring...

I lost a race due to this.

Be gentle ! Old bolts shear real easy dude..

Your in Racing,

mr2tim

ps mr pratt-where is your car at here?

04-18-2008, 02:44 AM	#1 (permalink)
Timon MR2 MKI AW11 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 652 Thanks: 13 Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Squeaking So now that I have some cash available, not much - but some, I plan to fix the single mechanical deficiency my car currently has. One of the belts squeaks on start up. It is like any other belt issue where it squeaks horribly loud, with one exception, it doesn't continue. From a cold start it squeaks for a few minutes at the standard 2k rpm idle, however revving the engine to 3-3.5k (of course makes the squeaking louder) stops it from squeaking. Now that it has stopped, I can freely drive around with no further issues at all. If I stop the squeak by revving the engine at the beginning of a cold start, it will stop, but if I go into reverse before the vehicle is to normal operating temperature it will start to squeak again. Another note, when squeaking, at night if I have the accessory lights on and I start the car, the lights struggle in sync with the squeak, and once the squeak stops, the lights are perfectly normal. This leads me to believe the squeaky belt is the alternator belt, but I've been wrong many many times previously about random things. I unfortunately do not know the maintenance records of any belts other than the timing belt was replaced ~1k miles before I got the car. I've visually inspected the belts and they seem to be in good condition. Could it be a loose belt? I've had someone tell me it could be a "glazed" belt, which he explained as the belt may have absorbed some form of liquid (further search into this pulls up various fluids contaminating the belt, which is not a known issue). Any suggestions on what is squeaking, why it is squeaking, and how to fix it?

04-18-2008, 10:00 AM	#3 (permalink)
Timon MR2 MKI AW11 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 652 Thanks: 13 Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	If water condensation is what is causing the belt to do it, then would it still be worth looking into replacing or just doing the band-aid fix? I'll inspect the belt again to be sure, and I'll see if I can find a tensioner gauge to see if it's lose, they do seem expensive for a single use. I know depending on the belt they measure in different units, a common one seems to be pounds, what should it be at? If there are any cracks or excessive smoothness on the inner part of the belt, then I'll just replace it. Last edited by Timon; 04-18-2008 at 10:06 AM..

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

04-18-2008, 12:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
Pratt No Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Smyrna, GA Posts: 21 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I have a similar situation albeit not nearly as bad. My 2 between 3-4K rpm on moderate to heavy throttle rattles/squeaks. If you are gentle on the throttle there is no noise. It only does it however from 3-4K rpm and no other time. I did not think it was the belts so I have been furiously hunting for loose bolts, items vibrating etc. Mine does not squeak all through the lower rev ranges like Timon's. The funny thing is that I just switched to the Powermax filter set-up and that is when I noticed the squeak, but I have disassembled the Powermax and put the old airbox on there and it does not go away. Anyone have anything similar?

04-18-2008, 12:49 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ben Same In The End Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oceanside, CA / Reno, NV Posts: 4,026 Thanks: 18 Thanked 283 Times in 265 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	Don't buy a belt tension gauge. A good way to test belt tension is to compare it to another car. Feel the way a belt feels on a new car, and feel the way the belt feels on yours. If it is water condensation, there nothing you can really do other than park the car in the garage. As you mentioned, if there are cracks or excessive smoothness (or the belt is shiny) replace it; otherwise the baby powder trick will work.

04-18-2008, 01:38 PM	#6 (permalink)
Timon MR2 MKI AW11 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 652 Thanks: 13 Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Well, my guess, after further examination about 5 minutes ago, it's either water condensation (which I doubt considering its ~60-65*F here and it still squealed at startup) or it's loose. I checked and the belt looks brand spanking new - the labeling around the belt giving the brand name (I think) and a model number has no wear or fade at all. This time I got under the car and felt all around the belt as much as I could between the pulleys and there is no smoothness. I played around a bit with the belt, tugging it and pulling it side to side. It seems to stay well, but it isn't death crunching tight. I guess the first thing I'm going to try is to tighten the belt a little bit. Looking at it, the easiest way seems to be moving the alternator more towards the back of the car. There is an adjustment bracket right above the alternator with a bolt in it. Can I loosen that bolt, move the alternator back as much as possible, and tighten it back up? This in theory would tighten the belt, I'm not sure if it will stop the squeals, but could it hurt anything? Otherwise I'll resort to baby powder, as Ben suggested. I'm assuming to do this just powder up the belt, particularly on the inner part of the belt that actually touches the pulleys?

04-18-2008, 01:55 PM	#7 (permalink)
Ben Same In The End Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Oceanside, CA / Reno, NV Posts: 4,026 Thanks: 18 Thanked 283 Times in 265 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	Just don't over tighten the belt. And the baby powder does go on the ribs of the belt - don't be afraid to get a handful and throw it all in there.

04-18-2008, 04:59 PM	#8 (permalink)
Ku-sama Cage Fighter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 1,594 Thanks: 8 Thanked 42 Times in 39 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	mine squeaked, I tightened it and it helped a lot.... but I replace my alternator and replaced both my AC belt and my alt belt.... both had excessive cracking/chunks missing in the grooves.

04-18-2008, 11:07 PM	#9 (permalink)
Timon MR2 MKI AW11 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 652 Thanks: 13 Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I'll double check when I tighten it to be sure there isn't a section cracked, chunky, or excessively smooth. Thanks for the help guys, I'll keep you updated on the results.

04-20-2008, 09:16 PM	#10 (permalink)
Timon MR2 MKI AW11 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 652 Thanks: 13 Thanked 40 Times in 36 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	1 hour cool down + 1 pry bar + 1 crescent wrench + 10 minutes = 0 squealing . No baby powder was harmed during the fixing of the problem.

04-21-2008, 05:40 AM	#11 (permalink)
Mista 2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 461 Thanks: 16 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	good to hear you got it sorted. there are belt grip sprays if it somes back and the belt is still tight

04-26-2008, 07:04 AM	#12 (permalink)
mr2tim SUPERcharZed ToyZ RacZer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 780 Thanks: 3 Thanked 48 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Hmmm everyone has this covered w good advice. (Baby powder really?) Old lazy racers used fan belt dressing for belt noise, he he. Kinda gooy stuff. (since your new to mr2's) Nobody's mentioned the water fill pipe under the alternator.? You may be tightening your alternator by leverage w a screwdriver perhaps? If you do your probably up against the water fill pipe. Opps...by the pit crew.. Always check this water fill pipe joint when your done. It'll leak real slow and it's hard to see when it leaks. (Faster if it's hot) If it leaks replace the O-ring on it, don't try to recycle the o-ring... I lost a race due to this. Be gentle ! Old bolts shear real easy dude.. Your in Racing, mr2tim ps mr pratt-where is your car at here?