HG issues? Any input much appreciated

kadinga · 12-12-2008, 10:08 PM

Recently bought an 87 N/A. Lots of issues. I have replaced spark plugs/wires, dizzy, air filter, oil + filter. She burns coolant on startup, lots of white smoke, and is starting to throw cel's. The engine will stall in neutral if I have just come off the hwy or driven hard. On top of that, its getting moody and occasionally delivers NO power at all. Idles great, smooth as silk for the most part. Drivability is sh*t tho, the tvis pretended it was the rev limiter a few times and the engine would cut @ 4500 and start throwing cel's and crap.
Anybody know whats going on???
PS: when I changed the oil a little over 1L came out. It was fine a few weeks ago when I checked last. Now its all topped up.

ve2dict · 12-12-2008, 10:13 PM

ive definitly changed a few head gaskets on mine before. the biggest thing i noticed was they dont act like normal headgasket issues....like you can have a bad HG and the car still act almost normal or it will be intermitent. ...the tvis? hmmm maybe u got alot of carbon / sludge crap build up on the flaps. if you are going to change the head gasket i would say throw a high comp one it when u do it....it works wonders ...unless u got a crap load of miles and dont wanna risk it blowing up or something

kadinga · 12-13-2008, 01:03 AM

Could you recommend a place to get high comp hg's? Im not too worried about my engine, 230K kms. Ya, all these probs are real off/on, some days shes totally fine, other days....

CyFi · 12-13-2008, 02:25 AM

Are you sure the smoke is white and not blue tinted? Are you having to add coolant ever? Typically a head gasket issue would cause coolant burning all the time, or it could cause combustion gasses in your coolant, or it could cause coolant to mix with your oil. I would do a leakdown test with the radiator cap off, and if you see bubbles/ see the level rise while you compress air into each of the cylinders (at tdc compression) you either have a head gasket problem or a crack.

BTW, what codes are you getting? Your problem really doesn't seem to indicate head gasket issues.

ve2dict · 12-13-2008, 08:50 AM

trd used to make a hg but it was discontinued..... i would go with a toda or hks....both there sites have them but i think 1 of the 2 have more options for compression ratios im about to purchase one myself just hasnt decided which yet

328FTW · 12-14-2008, 03:59 AM

Sounds a little like rings. If they are bad enough oil getting into the intake past the rings could be sludging up the intake and jamming the tvis. And with the oil being down it sounds like it is burning oil. Do a leakdown and if inconclusive try a compression test. When my rings went in old 4age went it was all smooth but the intake sludged up. Same with my 4agze. They did it especially under wide open throttle when the oil pressure was up and oil was getting thrown up into the rings.

kadinga · 12-17-2008, 11:47 PM

Thx 328ftw and cyfi
Ha, its 8 below right now so my exhaust is always white :P
The engine has taken alot of use and abuse so rings going makes sense.
Havent had a chance to check compression, codes or "bubble test" yet.

kadinga · 12-18-2008, 02:58 PM

K, I think its the hg but am hoping its not rings too

My coolant will rise and fall as I rev the engine and a few bubbles come up once in a while. I actually dont see any smoke out the pipe right now. Just a little after startup and then thats it. It is steam though, I know cuz it creates condensation when u hold something close to it.
Right now I plan on just doing the hg then if I still get smoke, run 30w.
Wouldnt a leaking hg let coolant AND oil in the engine? Rings shouldnt go at228K.

328FTW · 12-18-2008, 05:33 PM

If you do the head gasket it would be easy to do the rings at the same time cause the head will be off and all you have to do then is drop the sump and pop the pistons out the top. Then you put tape around the journals and hone the bores and use a ring compressor to pop the newly ringed pistons back in and bolt back up (minus the protective tape). If you have to do rings later you will have to remove the head and your new head gasket which would suck.

As for the couple of questions you posed the HG does not have to leak oil and water in fact that would be a bad blowout. They actually usually just blow straight through into a water gallery and pressurize the system. And rings can go at anytime. 228k is actually right on the money for rings. I had an engine with absolutely destroyed rings at 100,000 miles and a 20 thou bore lip. Lack of oil changes caused it.

kadinga · 12-22-2008, 02:46 PM

thx, this all makes sense now. ya, the oil was pitch black when I changed it. I just bought this car too so not knowing the history contributed to this headache too.
So right now Im looking at:
rings, hg for sure
valve job, clean airways, resurface head maybe
cams, port for kicks

12-12-2008, 10:08 PM	#1 (permalink)
kadinga kamikaze Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	HG issues? Any input much appreciated Recently bought an 87 N/A. Lots of issues. I have replaced spark plugs/wires, dizzy, air filter, oil + filter. She burns coolant on startup, lots of white smoke, and is starting to throw cel's. The engine will stall in neutral if I have just come off the hwy or driven hard. On top of that, its getting moody and occasionally delivers NO power at all. Idles great, smooth as silk for the most part. Drivability is sh*t tho, the tvis pretended it was the rev limiter a few times and the engine would cut @ 4500 and start throwing cel's and crap. Anybody know whats going on??? PS: when I changed the oil a little over 1L came out. It was fine a few weeks ago when I checked last. Now its all topped up.

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12-12-2008, 10:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
ve2dict Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 125 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	ive definitly changed a few head gaskets on mine before. the biggest thing i noticed was they dont act like normal headgasket issues....like you can have a bad HG and the car still act almost normal or it will be intermitent. ...the tvis? hmmm maybe u got alot of carbon / sludge crap build up on the flaps. if you are going to change the head gasket i would say throw a high comp one it when u do it....it works wonders ...unless u got a crap load of miles and dont wanna risk it blowing up or something

12-13-2008, 01:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
kadinga kamikaze Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Could you recommend a place to get high comp hg's? Im not too worried about my engine, 230K kms. Ya, all these probs are real off/on, some days shes totally fine, other days....

12-13-2008, 02:25 AM	#4 (permalink)
CyFi Shoulda put a ring on it Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Phoenix Posts: 1,398 Thanks: 12 Thanked 38 Times in 35 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	Are you sure the smoke is white and not blue tinted? Are you having to add coolant ever? Typically a head gasket issue would cause coolant burning all the time, or it could cause combustion gasses in your coolant, or it could cause coolant to mix with your oil. I would do a leakdown test with the radiator cap off, and if you see bubbles/ see the level rise while you compress air into each of the cylinders (at tdc compression) you either have a head gasket problem or a crack. BTW, what codes are you getting? Your problem really doesn't seem to indicate head gasket issues.

12-13-2008, 08:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
ve2dict Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 125 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	trd used to make a hg but it was discontinued..... i would go with a toda or hks....both there sites have them but i think 1 of the 2 have more options for compression ratios im about to purchase one myself just hasnt decided which yet

12-14-2008, 03:59 AM	#6 (permalink)
328FTW 3vzfe tinkering Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,529 Thanks: 12 Thanked 99 Times in 83 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Sounds a little like rings. If they are bad enough oil getting into the intake past the rings could be sludging up the intake and jamming the tvis. And with the oil being down it sounds like it is burning oil. Do a leakdown and if inconclusive try a compression test. When my rings went in old 4age went it was all smooth but the intake sludged up. Same with my 4agze. They did it especially under wide open throttle when the oil pressure was up and oil was getting thrown up into the rings.

12-17-2008, 11:47 PM	#7 (permalink)
kadinga kamikaze Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thx 328ftw and cyfi Ha, its 8 below right now so my exhaust is always white :P The engine has taken alot of use and abuse so rings going makes sense. Havent had a chance to check compression, codes or "bubble test" yet.

12-18-2008, 02:58 PM	#8 (permalink)
kadinga kamikaze Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	K, I think its the hg but am hoping its not rings too My coolant will rise and fall as I rev the engine and a few bubbles come up once in a while. I actually dont see any smoke out the pipe right now. Just a little after startup and then thats it. It is steam though, I know cuz it creates condensation when u hold something close to it. Right now I plan on just doing the hg then if I still get smoke, run 30w. Wouldnt a leaking hg let coolant AND oil in the engine? Rings shouldnt go at228K.

12-18-2008, 05:33 PM	#9 (permalink)
328FTW 3vzfe tinkering Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 1,529 Thanks: 12 Thanked 99 Times in 83 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	If you do the head gasket it would be easy to do the rings at the same time cause the head will be off and all you have to do then is drop the sump and pop the pistons out the top. Then you put tape around the journals and hone the bores and use a ring compressor to pop the newly ringed pistons back in and bolt back up (minus the protective tape). If you have to do rings later you will have to remove the head and your new head gasket which would suck. As for the couple of questions you posed the HG does not have to leak oil and water in fact that would be a bad blowout. They actually usually just blow straight through into a water gallery and pressurize the system. And rings can go at anytime. 228k is actually right on the money for rings. I had an engine with absolutely destroyed rings at 100,000 miles and a 20 thou bore lip. Lack of oil changes caused it.

12-22-2008, 02:46 PM	#10 (permalink)
kadinga kamikaze Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 13 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	thx, this all makes sense now. ya, the oil was pitch black when I changed it. I just bought this car too so not knowing the history contributed to this headache too. So right now Im looking at: rings, hg for sure valve job, clean airways, resurface head maybe cams, port for kicks