1987 Mr2.

[Mr2sFTW]

Hi All!

I've got a 1987 Mr2 [non turbo] 1.6L 16 valve... Don't know if it's a 4AGE ... but it's got the round, circular air filter in the back left side of the trunk.

Am gonna be replacing the air filter with a K&N round air filter that fits the stock assembly, recently replaced spark plugs with NGK iridium spark plugs.

Was wondering what / which oxygen sensors [I've been lead to believe there's up to three? I'm not particularly familiar ...] I'd want to replace. I've been trying to find where they are, but the stock end-user manual doesn't have much for maintenance, certainly not as far as that.

Are there any available products on the market like upgraded ECU, T-VIS controller that you'd recommend? I saw one T-Vis controller, but the website was down ...

Also, how do you guys feel about lubricants? The clutch fluid reservoir said to use dot 3 brake fluid, so when I got ahold of / started maintaining the car, and it was shifting really rough, adding the dot 3 brake fluid did help a lot. Now I've been reading up about ROYAL PURPLE ... and they seem to be the top of the top of the line set of fluids. Do you guys recommend using the royal purple products? If so ... which would you use? Afaik, we have manual transaxle fluid [It's stick .. dunno if I mentioned that.] engine oil, clutch fluid, and brake fluid. [though I don't think royal purple has a brake fluid.]

Sorry to have so many questions .. so only one more, I promise.

When it's in gear and engaged, the oil pressure stays absolutely fine, but when you're sitting idle and in neutral for more than 3-5 minutes [IE, a fast food drive through] the pressure drops to about half between L and H, and will sometimes stall due to lack of pressure when I drop it in to first.

Is it normal for Mr2's to go that low at that idle? Maybe I'm just worrying too much, but I just really want to take care of this car.

Thank you VERY much.

[Jackstand Queen]

Your oil pressure would be envied by many on this forum. Looks good to me too. When it stalls when you drop it into 1st, that's most likely a sign you need to improve your foot work.

I've never used Purple Royal, but I gather its premium stuff. Prolly couldn't go wrong with it.

Your 87 4age probably has the ONE WIRE type O2 sensor which is mounted into your exhaust pipe. You only have one O2 sensor in total.

If you are looking to hot rod up your N.A. . . . your next step would be to look into a header for the engine. Its a bang for the buck thing . . . header: as much as several hundred. Stand alone EMS . . . couple of grand and many migraines later you get as much HP gain as the header would give.

[muffinman]

check the fluid in the tranny or change your tranny fluid if it hasn't been done yet. your oil pressure sounds fine but what does the car idle at? the 87 is the 4age

[Mr2sFTW]

Thanks for the info so far guys, let me give a little more info

This Mr2 has 52,000 miles on it. That said, I recently found out the air filter has never been changed since the vehicle was bought. Is this a terrible thing?

For the transmission fluid, if I understand correctly, this is the royal purple I'd want to get?

Royal Purple Manual Transmission Fluid

I recently (while reading through the forums here. What an amazing wealth of Mr2 Knowledge you guys have. ) saw a thread with a picture of where the fill/check and drain plugs are on the manual transaxle, so I know where those are.

That's great there's only one O2 sensor. I wasn't looking forward to testing multiple ones and deciding which to replace.

Is there a brand of O2 sensor you'd recommend, or will any brand do? My knowledge isn't particularly expansive, but if I understand right, O2 sensors naturally age over time, and that eventually amounts to the ECU getting degraded info, which causes the engine to perform ... improperly?

As far as replacing / upgrading the clutch, from what I've seen, a replacement / upgrade clutch would be in the $300-$500 range, but you've gotta take it to a garage, because the mating process between the clutch, gear assembly, and engine is a very intricate deal?

I'm really glad it's got the model air filter assembly where it's in the trunk. I see a lot of models with cones in the engine bay, but doesn't rain get in the breathing holes in the engine lid? Looked like it'd get right on the cone if I replaced the stock assembly, ( ) so I decided to get a K&N one that would fit the stock assembly.

I should be able to do the transmission fluid myself, and the O2 sensor too, right?

Thanks for all the help, everyone.

[Timon]

If you're stalling, it isn't due to oil pressure. The oil pressure drops because the engine is stalling, but it isn't what causes the engine to stall. You could be 3 quarts low on oil and the engine wouldn't stall (it may blow up though).

As Muffing asked, what is it idling at?

There's an idle adjustment screw on the throttle body, directly in front of the TPS. I'd suggest looking into adjusting that. The easiest way is to get a helper to keep the car from stalling out while you're adjusting it, assuming it stalls quickly when idling.

If this doesn't fix your problem, then I'd start looking at the AFM, and the fuel system. If you can pressure check your fuel rail - if it's low then either your pump is going out, or the AFM has a bad connection (the AFM is linked directly with turning on the fuel pump).

As for the fluids, pretty much anything DOT3 for brake fluid & clutch fluid, I personally went with a syncromesh transmission fluid for now, but when I replace the clutch in the spring I'll go with something a little bit higher grade - lots of people say to go with Redline, everyone recommends Toyota red coolant from the dealer, and oil is completely up in the air = Amsoil, Mobil1, Royal Purple, Valvoline, etc. etc.

More detail on the O2 sensor. Crawl under the car directly in front of the driver's side rear tire (my have to jack it up, luckily I don't yet). Follow the exhaust pipe up towards the engine, just above (towards the engine) where it comes in contact with the black plastic under body covers is where you'll see your O2 sensor. If you've replaced the oil filter, then you should already know where it is since they are pretty close together.

The problem with 87's is there were a lot of changes, especially depending on what month it was made in. My '87 has the bigger brakes, and tail lights, but still has the blue top engine from the previous models. So I'd double check the O2 sensor to see how many wires it has. I believe mine has 1, but for some reason I remember picturing two wires when I changed the oil last - I haven't replaced the O2 sensor yet to know for sure.

[Mr2sFTW]

when it's cold it idles at 2000/2100/2200 [if really cold]

once it moves off of super cold to approaching C, it drops to 1900, and when it's c/ 1-2 bars, it's like 1500-1600.

When WARM, after being driven, it idles at 850-900ish rpms. can't be for sure, stock needle isn't particularly precise.. never lower than 850, for sure though.

Edit: while I'm here, I should mention, it's done that thing other's have mentioned where the revs bounce when it's at idle. I cleaned off one of the fuses in the engine bay, it's the AC fuse ... after doing that, the problem seemed to go away. I think I may have used one of the replacement fuses there was under the lid for the same thing some time before?? , I'm not sure.

When you really let loose on the throttle, and hit the 4350ish+ powerband, and (I presume) the T-Vis engages, it sounds a little bit like the turbo "whoosh" on a friend of mine's turbodiesle crew cab truck. It performs great, but just want to confirm the sound isn't anything peculiar?

Again, it's a non-turbo.

Thanks for the info on the oxy sensor! Excellent directions.

As far as the exhaust goes, it's the stock 1987 dual pipe exhaust, similar to this ... if that helps identify it. http://www.iapdirect.com/images/T/HKS_SPORT_EXHAUST.jpg

I'll get pictures asap. [Thursday, in the day.] Please don't be mean .. it's not very clean.

Again, thanks for all the help.

[Jackstand Queen]

Not quite ten years ago the Car Collector magazine listed the 1st Gen Mr2 as one of the top ten cars to buy "back then" because of its anticipated collectability.

Your car has incredibly low mileage. Most Mk I owners on this forum have closer to 200 K mileage on the average. Most of us on the forum are mediocre to really good backyard mechanics. So most of us do a lot of modding to our cars. There are a few Purists who think that modding them ruins them. And they will especially agonize over any mods you do to your pristine Mk I. Oh the suffering of those Purists, the sweet suffering . . .

Which bring us to your situation in particular. This is a 22 year old car that was not religiously maintained, i.e. the 22 year old air filter installed at the factory in Japan. I can tell you haven't got a lot of automotive repair background. Basically, your 22 year old car is going to have a lot of simply age related (not mileage) problems. You will be dumbfounded at how much parts cost at the Yota dealer. And further disheartened by how the interior pieces, and many body pieces are no longer available. If you have to pay some garage $70 an hour to fix every problem that will come along, you are going to regret buying the car and dump it after the first couple of thousand in repairs.

Your other option is to learn to be a decent backyard mechanic. The path is littered with stripped threads, broken bolts and leaks galore. The learning curve is steep, and expensive mistakes are a part of the learning process. A place out of the weather to work, and about $500 in tools and supplies would get you off to a good start. But it is rewarding nontheless.

Basically here's lesson one on Mk I maintenance. Fuel injection parts are so very expensive, and there are so many of them . . . that you only replace them if they are defective. Hint: your O2 sensor. If you had a mechanic replace every component of the fuel injection system on your car . . . the bill could easily be ten grand.

By the way I should introduce myself . . I'm this Forum's Official Long winded, Pompous, Gas Bag!

[muffinman]

1. i've heard very good things about the royal purple
2. you can buy a replacement clutch kit (clutch,pressure plate,bearing and allignment tool) for under $120. It can be done easily in your driveway but if your new at this you might not want to tackle it alone.
3.most people do this kind of air filter mod MKI MR2 Write-ups
4. you can definately do all the maintenance yourself , just ask if you have any questions.

[lsgheero]

Do not use royal purple manual synthetic tranny fluid in our cars.

I used this and had all kinds of problems getting it into gear, changed for redline MT-90 and no more probs. but syncromesh as timon mentioned works fine too if your on a budget.

*** reason behind my statement ***

this fluid is too thin/slippy and will cause your car to feel like it almost has no synchros at all.

[Timon]

^ Budget? The syncromesh was relatively expensive, at $7/qt iirc lol. Still I believe that's about half of Redline, so you could consider it budget.


Back yard mechanics FTMFW!

[Mr2sFTW]

I don't have a background or career in car mechanics, but I know the difference between a turbo and a supercharger, how to change spark plugs, oil, oil filter, time engine, brakes, bleed brake fluid/clutch fluid, etc etc. I'm looking forward to learning and having a lot of fun along the way.

It is a dream to have at this mileage ... yes. Hence why I'm not making any modifications yet. The car has been owned by a driver with a knack for riding the clutch ... so it's not as perfect as 50,000 mile clutch should be [were it taken care of] but it's pretty solid since I've been taking care of it, made adjustments, etc.

I see a lot of people who pretty much see it as MT90 vs Royal Purple, so if anyone has used both and could provide an opinion, that'd be great.

My dad was a fan of Mobil Synthetic since they were the first to come out with a Synthetic oil [ ? ] so that's all I've trusted in any of my cars. But something tells me that the other two are still a step up. [ ? ]

I'm gonna go through all the electrical wiring, [which isn't very clean or nice looking either ] unplug what I can, and clean all the electrical contacts, plug them all back in. Do you guys think it's safe to test the T-Vis by revving to the 4300ish RPM area and checking that it actuates and opens the valves? [In neutral?] Again ... just trying to baby this as much as I can now that it's in my hands.

Pictures due soon ... will absolutely get them by when I install the new air filter. [Cartridge, in the stock assembly. ]

[toy-driver]

I also have an 87 Mr2. Mine has 224,xxx miles and still running strong.
Having the old air filter can cause a lot of problems. So get that changed ASAP.
I bought my MR2 with a bad clutch(couldn't move the car at all). I bought a clutch kit off ebay for $86. Replaced it in 3 days, in my driveway, by myself with a broken collar bone. It's rather straight forward with a lot of room to work with.
For fluids I stick with Amsoil products. Very professional and high quality.
Where are you located Mr2sFTW? Somebody might be close that could help with any problems you are having.
One more thing. NGK are great spark plugs, but I would not bother with iridium($6 each). Just get the v-power plugs($2 each) and change them once a year.

[Jackstand Queen]

Mod the hell out of your car Mr2sTFW! In factory form, its slow and the rear half of the car is too heavy. Lighten the car. Boost the HP. Redistribute some weight forward. Improve the handling with sway bars, gas strut cartridges, and strut tower bars. Better yet swap in an supercharged engine, and mod that engine up.

[Mr2sFTW]

I feel I must post to take a heavy burden off the minds of some people who must read this board.

This car will NOT .. be modded for now. I'm getting a K&N filter to fit the stock assembly. The suspension may or may not receive some attention. I'd definitely like to do what I can for the engine. I know it's going to love the new filter compared to the old one!

That said, there is an awful lot of bulky stuff in the air assembly back there. I couldn't quite figure out what everything was.

The ducting the "breathing hole" in to the back corner of the trunk seems a bit odd... perhaps it's just me.

More info to come...

[muffinman]

enjoy the car the way it is before you start doing anything drastic

[Teado]

Here's a pic of the O2 sensor

[tjmr2]

The TVIS is supposed to open a set of butterflies at about 4350 RPM to allow better breathing. Below 4350 only 4 of the 8 runners from the intake are allowed flow, if it sounds like a turbo opening at that RPM then it's probably working as it should.

Toyota in their ?infinite? wisdom decided that the air should enter the car in the rear of the cooling fan inlet behind the passenger door and progress behind the trunk, across the back of the car and into the air filter housing you found on the drivers side of the trunk before it gets into the engine bay and the intake manifold. Long and restrictive.

It's a fun car in stock form, learn to drive it as it is. Fix the little things, change the fluids. Download the Big Green Book, (BGB - the shop manual) it will explain procedures with pictures. Get a good torque wrench and torque everything to specification. In time when you are comfortable - bored with the performance we can help you take it to any level your heart and budget will allow.

[ebouwman]

Originally Posted by Jackstand Queen

Your oil pressure would be envied by many on this forum.

Its a bang for the buck thing . . . header: as much as several hundred. Stand alone EMS . . . couple of grand and many migraines later you get as much HP gain as the header would give.

My oil P usually stays right at the halfway mark when idling, sometimes a little below depending on temperature.

Headers and cut that nasty intake off, should liven it up.

Originally Posted by Mr2sFTW

I'm really glad it's got the model air filter assembly where it's in the trunk. I see a lot of models with cones in the engine bay, but doesn't rain get in the breathing holes in the engine lid? Looked like it'd get right on the cone if I replaced the stock assembly, ( ) so I decided to get a K&N one that would fit the stock assembly.

I should be able to do the transmission fluid myself, and the O2 sensor too, right?

Tranny fluid yes, and O2 sensor is easy as well, hardest thing is getting that damned connector apart (i always struggle with it, then my brother laughs at me)

Rain falling on the air filter isn't that big of a deal, if you are worried about it you can build a little rain sheild, but really i don't think it's necessary unless you're looking at snowy/icey temperatures, in which case i just use a piece of cardboard wedged in the lid vent to cover it, and that works well as a temporary fix.

Taking off all that ducting and doing a cone filter would significantly help the flow.

Originally Posted by Mr2sFTW

When you really let loose on the throttle, and hit the 4350ish+ powerband, and (I presume) the T-Vis engages, it sounds a little bit like the turbo "whoosh" on a friend of mine's turbodiesle crew cab truck. It performs great, but just want to confirm the sound isn't anything peculiar?

I get that sometimes, because my cone filter is right over my shoulder.

Originally Posted by Mr2sFTW

I'm gonna go through all the electrical wiring, [which isn't very clean or nice looking either ] unplug what I can, and clean all the electrical contacts, plug them all back in. Do you guys think it's safe to test the T-Vis by revving to the 4300ish RPM area and checking that it actuates and opens the valves? [In neutral?] Again ... just trying to baby this as much as I can now that it's in my hands.

It's perfectly safe to test it, not sure how you would though. You could unplug the t-vis vacuum line and hook up a pressure tester to the line and see if there's a pressure change.

The t-vis has a spring that keeps it open, and the vacuum pressure shuts it for lower revs, so if anything fails it should stay open (like mine)

And don't bother with any t-vis controller, it won't really do anything, since the t-vis is about as tuned as it can be straight from the factory.

As for the bouncing idle, it could be the IAC valve (idle air control) it's right by the throttle valve, and it has idle set screw on it. Sometimes they get gunked up and you just need to go in there and clean it, you could use brake cleaner, and then rinse it well, or sometimes you can find cleaner made specifically for throttle bodies.

[ebouwman]

Originally Posted by Jackstand Queen

Lighten the car. Boost the HP. Redistribute some weight forward.

Is there a thread on weight reduction?

[328FTW]

Originally Posted by ebouwman

Is there a thread on weight reduction?

Yes and no, there are discussions about it but it all depends on how extreme you want to get. For the street generally it involves making a lighter exhaust system, moving the battery and maybe removing your ac. You can take out some of the heavy noise deadening and replace it with lighter stuff and light carpet as well. At the extreme end is fiberglass lift off panels and interior removal plus replacing the cast brackets with alloy ones. Even further is a spaceframe but that is getting very serious then.

My racecar has all the support ribbing cut off the panels so they flex and flap a bit and removed all the stick on noise deadener with dry ice (old trick to make it break easy). And even has the shift cables all exposed. I keep getting told that it would only be a few pounds for all that but I have the road car to look pretty, 328 is all business.