tie rod and swaybar link question

[gold85mr2]

i have a 85 mr2 that has a shimmy at high speeds that make the steering wheel shake and i think it may be tie rod ends but not sure. when they are on the vehicle and it is not jacked up off the ground can you rotate a good tierod toward the front and back of car a little bit? maybe an 1/8th - 1/16th of a turn?

the same goes for the sway bar links in the front. is this normal?

[mr3]

Out of balence tires could cause this happening also.

[Gairloch]

^ x2

It's much more likely to be your tires being out of balance causing the shaking. The thing is, tires usually go out of balance because of a problem with your alignment so you will want to get that checked out too. A little bit of play in the front might just be the steering actuating a little.

Btw, no end links cannot cause the shaking you describe.

[gold85mr2]

i rotated the tires today and i still have the same problem in the front end and it actually feels worse. i am at a loss. what else coud be the problem besides the tires?

[Gairloch]

Aren't your tires staggered? Ball joints could be part of the problem too.

[gold85mr2]

staggered?


i grabbed tire from top and bottom and tried to move it and couldnt and also did same side to side and only movement was when the steering wheel moved.

[Gairloch]

Staggered means that one pair of tires is a different size than the other. For the MR2 that means that the rear tires should be larger than the fronts.

What kind of shape are your tires in?

[swift978]

if you can feel it at slow speeds then the shape of the tire is non-circular. if you feel shaking intensity increase exponentially as you approach high speeds then the mass of the tire is off balance.

if anyone cares velocity=omega*radius, acceleration=omega^2*radius, and Force=mass*acceleration, where omega is angular velocity. so as rpm increase, Force increases exponentially

my suggestion would be to balance the tires just to make sure its not a simple problem of missing weights on some of your tires. I don't know a lot about cars, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

[muffinman]

Originally Posted by Gairloch

Aren't your tires staggered? Ball joints could be part of the problem too.

I've never seen an MK1 staggered.

edit:yes i have but not stock

[tjmr2]

Do you have stock wheels? If not they can be balanced, but not centered on the hub giving the symptoms you describe.

[Jackstand Queen]

Wheel bearings worn out maybe. Control arm bushings. Sway bar bushings. Balljoints.

Are there chunks of mud built up on the inside areas of the rim? This can cause a major tire balance issue.

[gold85mr2]

well they are stock rims and are not staggered. but i had them balanced yesterday and they charged me to do all four tires and then decided to show me i had a chunck missing out of one and wanted to sell me a new tire for 70 bux on top of the balancing which i told them i didnt have. they complained about putting the messed up tire back on so i said put my spare on then. they then put the spare on then when i got the bill they charged me an additional $8.50 to mount my spare. when i said that was bs they said well we didnt charge the full amount which was 15 bux. this is why i try to do everything myself because most shoops are out to stick it to you but unfortunately i dont have a tire balancer. any way i drove to work this morning on my spare which was mounted on rear driver and since i was running late i drove much faster than i should have and i didnt feel any shaking anymore unless i was doing 85 and pressing the brakes. i dont know if the spare had anything to do with it or not. this afternoon i bought a used tire for 20 bux and the guy told me that since it was going on the rear that it didnt need to be balanced. is that true? i got a good deal on the tire so i didnt want to bother him. if it needs balancing i will take it somewhere else. i havent driven it yet since i put the new tire on so i dont know if i should have it balanced or not what does everyone think?

[mr3]

Allways balance your tires. All 4 tires should be if I'm not mistaken. If you are going to rotate after 5k miles then they will be on the front so just have them balance it for the sake of it. What's another $5 gonna hurt.

[Gairloch]

Originally Posted by gold85mr2

well they are stock rims and are not staggered. but i had them balanced yesterday and they charged me to do all four tires and then decided to show me i had a chunck missing out of one and wanted to sell me a new tire for 70 bux on top of the balancing which i told them i didnt have. they complained about putting the messed up tire back on so i said put my spare on then. they then put the spare on then when i got the bill they charged me an additional $8.50 to mount my spare. when i said that was bs they said well we didnt charge the full amount which was 15 bux. this is why i try to do everything myself because most shoops are out to stick it to you but unfortunately i dont have a tire balancer. any way i drove to work this morning on my spare which was mounted on rear driver and since i was running late i drove much faster than i should have and i didnt feel any shaking anymore unless i was doing 85 and pressing the brakes. i dont know if the spare had anything to do with it or not. this afternoon i bought a used tire for 20 bux and the guy told me that since it was going on the rear that it didnt need to be balanced. is that true? i got a good deal on the tire so i didnt want to bother him. if it needs balancing i will take it somewhere else. i havent driven it yet since i put the new tire on so i dont know if i should have it balanced or not what does everyone think?

No, that's not true. You always have to have tires balanced when you put them on a wheel.

Just so you know, the shop did not screw you. They were perfectly within their rights to charge you what they did. The damaged tire is probably the cause of your vibration.

[muffinman]

Originally Posted by gold85mr2

i didnt feel any shaking anymore unless i was doing 85 and pressing the brakes.

sounds like your brake rotors are warped. have the rotors cut and it will be fine.

Oh and mentioned before me , ALWAYS have your tires balanced.

[Jackstand Queen]

I was just about to say the same thing as Muffinman. So, I will just strongly concur. Have your old rotors re-surfaced, or buy new ones.

There are some Gypo made in India, or Bangaladesh rotors out there. They are cheap, but also worthless. Better results would come from a well known domestic aftermarket manufacturer. Whose names escapes me right now.

[gold85mr2]

Originally Posted by Gairloch

No, that's not true. You always have to have tires balanced when you put them on a wheel.

Just so you know, the shop did not screw you. They were perfectly within their rights to charge you what they did. The damaged tire is probably the cause of your vibration.

i can understand that they were gonna charge for the balance but the extra for puttin the spare on is bs. i dont care how you look at it they were still gonna put a tire on one way or the other.

[tjmr2]

1. All four wheels must be balanced, preferably spin balanced.

2. Before you spend the money to have someone else pull your wheels, turn your rotors and reinstall the wheels. You should know that no matter what the guy at the front desk tells you, the wrench they use to tighten your lug nuts will either not be calibrated or the guy cranking on it won't care and the lug nuts will not be torqued evenly.

The AW11 brake rotors are sensitive to torque variations and the rotors will warp from uneven torque causing the vibration you felt during braking.

Invest in a good quality torque wrench and check all lugs on all wheels. Correct torque for an 89 is 76 ft lbs. In fifteen years of owning this car I haven't found a tire shop yet that has gotten it right on all sixteen lug nuts. I now have 148k on the car with the original rotors and haven't had to turn them yet.

By the way, that torque wrench will pay for itself countless times if properly taken care of. Don't waste your money on a $15.00 1/2" drive clicker from Harbor Freight, I think Kazin1111 broke a head bolt using a borrowed one. His money out of pocket (on his second engine since the original that the head bolt broke on) has to be somewhere over 2k. If I remember correctly.

Don't get me wrong, I own some Harbor Freight tools, but my point is don't scrimp on tools that have to be calibrated and so much is riding on. I torque everything I can and Never-Seeze all fasteners. While it's nasty stuff that can get everywhere it will be your life long friend if you ever have to take something apart again. If you took it apart once, you will see it again, it might be ten years but you will see it again.

Sorry this got long, good luck.

[gold85mr2]

Originally Posted by tjmr2

1. All four wheels must be balanced, preferably spin balanced.

2. Before you spend the money to have someone else pull your wheels, turn your rotors and reinstall the wheels. You should know that no matter what the guy at the front desk tells you, the wrench they use to tighten your lug nuts will either not be calibrated or the guy cranking on it won't care and the lug nuts will not be torqued evenly.

The AW11 brake rotors are sensitive to torque variations and the rotors will warp from uneven torque causing the vibration you felt during braking.

Invest in a good quality torque wrench and check all lugs on all wheels. Correct torque for an 89 is 76 ft lbs. In fifteen years of owning this car I haven't found a tire shop yet that has gotten it right on all sixteen lug nuts. I now have 148k on the car with the original rotors and haven't had to turn them yet.

By the way, that torque wrench will pay for itself countless times if properly taken care of. Don't waste your money on a $15.00 1/2" drive clicker from Harbor Freight, I think Kazin1111 broke a head bolt using a borrowed one. His money out of pocket (on his second engine since the original that the head bolt broke on) has to be somewhere over 2k. If I remember correctly.

Don't get me wrong, I own some Harbor Freight tools, but my point is don't scrimp on tools that have to be calibrated and so much is riding on. I torque everything I can and Never-Seeze all fasteners. While it's nasty stuff that can get everywhere it will be your life long friend if you ever have to take something apart again. If you took it apart once, you will see it again, it might be ten years but you will see it again.

Sorry this got long, good luck.

that is good info on the lugs i did not know that about these cars and this is my second one and these rotors are less than a year old so i will make sure i pay attention to that for now on.

[gold85mr2]

can anyone reccomend some good rotors that are less likely to warp?