1.6 to 20v top

[Elcangri1989]

Hi im new at this am wondering if it possible and can it work.I am thinking on putting a 20v cylinder head from a silver top or black top on a 1.6 supercharge engine and would it have problem or not. I would like to know before doing if anyody have done it or know anything and what would it need if it capable.

[ebouwman]

My question is why would you want to?

EDIT: also you're in the states right? So good luck finding just the head, as far as i'm aware that engine never came on any north american cars, so basically the only ones you'll find are from jdm importers

[Elcangri1989]

Originally Posted by ebouwman

My question is why would you want to?

Since it have more valve opening to get more air and the engine is supercharge would it be more better doing that for more performence.

[ebouwman]

it would flow better yes, but it would be easier to just put a new pulley on the supercharger to get more power.

Note the edit to that my other post^ finding the actual head may be a problem as well.

[Elcangri1989]

So it would be ok to put the top of the 20? And alsoif I did the pulley would it be alo better. Than stock charger.

[ebouwman]

No i didn't say it would work, not sure if it would or not. I'm just saying that if it does fit you'll have a hard time even getting a 20v head. I'm not sure about how much better a new supercharger pulley is but it's a REALLY easy way to get more power.

[Elcangri1989]

Originally Posted by ebouwman

No i didn't say it would work, not sure if it would or not. I'm just saying that if it does fit you'll have a hard time even getting a 20v head. I'm not sure about how much better a new supercharger pulley is but it's a REALLY easy way to get more power.

the mk1 i have isnt supercharge but i can get it for 900 i can get a 20v engine for 1k which would show good performence

[ebouwman]

which 20v is it? 1k would be a fair bit to pay if all you're going to do is use the head (if it fits)

[Elcangri1989]

[quote=ebouwman;434534]which 20v is it? 1k would be a fair bit to pay if all you're going to do is use the head (if it fits)[/QUOTEsi
the silver for1k and 1200 i get the black top engine which better to get betwen super charge 1.6 or 20v engine on the price i told u and or performence?

[ebouwman]

uh, i think the performance is about the same, but some people seem to say that N/A power is better. But take a read in the engine swap section and see what some of those guys say. One thing to remember is that the 4agze is probably easier to swap in because it was built for that car (assuming it came out of an mr2)

EDIT Actually i looked wikipedia, and the blacktop is supposed to make a little over 160 hp, so more than the 4agze

[MR III]

So far I know the supercharger engine main casing/blok and crankshaft,.pistons etc is exactly the same as that of the Silvertop 20V.

[mr3]

Check out the 20v section a here. There is a bunch to read about the swap.

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by MR III

So far I know the supercharger engine main casing/blok and crankshaft,.pistons etc is exactly the same as that of the Silvertop 20V.

no.

there are at least 4 or 5 different 4age/4agze rod types.

early bigport, late bigport, smallport, sivertop 20v, blacktop 20, early 4agze, and late 4agze ALL use different pistons......

early 3 rib vs 7 rib blocks use different cranks

blocks are cast different as well....


the 20V's #'s are a bit exaggerated, and has been proved time and again on the dyno. The blacktops do make considerable more power than the silvertops (probably around 20whp), but comparing a blacktop to a late model 4agze... the 4agze wins in torque and whp.

When talking 4 vs 5 valves per cylinder -- if you're going to start saying that one flows better over another you need to understand the technicalities of airflow into the combustion chamber -- if you don't understand them, then you shouldn't be assuming that 5 is better than 4.

when talking about 2 and 3 valves per cylinder and 4 valves per cylinder there is a different effect -- they each have different types of swirl and tumble effects as the air flows into the engine -- a large portion of the amount of air coming into the engine is this specific flow -- and the velocity of the air entering the headport.

adding a 5th valve (3rd intake) actually has been proved on flowbench tests that generally the characteristics don't change all that much, and the amount of airflow doesn't increase. Remember, that when you are increasing the number of valves, you have to decrease the size of the valve. The combustion chamber on the 20V's should have the CC size as the 16V's, and in order to fit that 3rd valve in, they have to decrease the size of the main 2 valves.

So, stating that the 20V has better flow because of an additional valve actually isn't correct. A large part of the 20V's having better flow is actually due to the VVT and/or the ITB's (and how those ITB's are set up will determing the velocity flowing into the engine).


When running forced induction, everything changes because of instead of making the engine pull air in, you are forcing air in. Physics show that fluid will flow in the path of least resistance from high to low pressure situations -- the air flow into your engine is the same way. When you are forcing air in there is a specific pushing and pulling direction -- the addition of the 5th valve really doesn't help much in terms of the air coming in.

Thinking about it, actually, I would be concerned that the 5th valve may actually cause a problem in forced induction (over a standard 16V head). This is due to the extra intake valve actually opening earlier than the other 2 -- in a forced induction setup you would be increasing the pressure in the cylinder, making the pressure differentials between behind the intake port and the combustion chamber actually closer to one another when the main 2 valves open.



I would say make a choice -- 20V or 4agze.

[Timon]

Well there is someone locally that is suppose to be building up 20v turbo, so we'll see how that 5th valve does with forced induction.

[mr3]

There is a turbo blacktop on youtube that is pretty fast. Not sure what he had done to it.

[328FTW]

This is a NZ guy that built a monster 20V levin using a 7age block.
1988 Toyota Levin GT Z - Fatal Attraction - 123 -- Performance Car | Modified drift, drag and import machines

Who says n/a is best? Might be the one mr3 mentioned, it was a blacktop but it has been highly modified and is 1.8L. Makes huge power, the article is probably exaggerating but it does put down big numbers.

[toyotaspeed90]

not saying it isn't possible at all.... would be very niave of me, especially since there is just about every variation of A series motor you can think of in an mr2..... boosted, n/a, etc....

that being said, why go with the added work and hassles of a 20V when you can put that money into your build elsewhere if you are already planning FI.

[ebouwman]

Originally Posted by 328FTW

This is a NZ guy that built a monster 20V levin using a 7age block.
1988 Toyota Levin GT Z - Fatal Attraction - 123 -- Performance Car | Modified drift, drag and import machines

Who says n/a is best? Might be the one mr3 mentioned, it was a blacktop but it has been highly modified and is 1.8L. Makes huge power, the article is probably exaggerating but it does put down big numbers.

What if you put a did a 7agze?

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by ebouwman

What if you put a did a 7agze?

been done... friend is building one for his ae86.

[328FTW]

I still like the 3sgte. There is nothing wrong with a 7agte or 7agze or even 7agzte but the 2L is just that little bit more....user friendly to build sensible horsepower. I brought a 20V for $100 to do something with and it hasn't even come off the trailer and some guy is offering $350 and coming to look tonight lol. They are a popular engine.