HID lighting FAQ *sticky?* Maybe create new lighting forum?

Kurdain · 07-20-2007, 05:43 AM

I borrowed content, links and sources from all over the web.
I can post references if necessary, a lot borrowed from Subaru forum.

HID FAQ and answers:

1. Does higher K (color) mean it’s brighter?

No!
The Kelvin scale is a measure of color temperature i.e. color of the light, not intensity or amount of light. HID setups that produce maximum light output are around 4100-4300K color temperature , and the higher you go, the less light output. A 10000-12000K HID kit will most likely be dimmer than your stock halogen lights. OEM HID's are 4100-4300K kits and will have the color of all the HID lights you see on cars that come equipped with them (like most BMWs, Mercedes-Benz', and other high end/luxury vehicles). The color is very white, while light output becomes progressively bluer as color temperature rises; 6000K is white/blue, 8000K is very blue, and above that you go towards purple. Also the higher the color range of the light the more it bleeds or glares. Amplify this effect by installing high color bulbs into NON-HID housings and the glare can become very bad.

Good read with pictures on color, glare and beam patterns: http://www.intellexual.net/hid.html
What is color temperature: http://www.hid-online.com/hidonline/...colourtemp.htm
More on that: http://www.hidkits.com/tab_faqs_color.htm
General HID info (scroll to bottom for stuff on brightness): http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-general.htm

2. What HID kit should I buy, what is the difference in quality?

Aftermarket HID’s are sold by a large number of companies, although less so recently because of changing DOT/NHTSA regulations. However, to ensure the highest quality, make sure you buy HID that is made by an OEM HID manufacturer. OEM HID kits are the same products fitted to many vehicles (usually luxury) by manufacturers before they are sold as new vehicles. See this link: http://faqlight.carpassion.info/car-oem-hid.htm. Notice that almost all ballasts and bulbs used by car manufacturers are Bosch, Osram, Philips, or Hella. Bosch and Osram are not as readily available for retail, but Philips and Hella are. Kits that are not made by these companies are most likely not of the highest quality, although some aftermarket manufacturers such as Brightstar and McCullogh have been recognized as high quality products as well. Philips/Hella kits are generally considered the best.

3. Can I put HID into my stock halogen reflector lighting assembly?

Yes. But it is strongly recommended that you do not. Although it may not seem so, directing the light produced by a headlight bulb to the right places requires a good deal of precision. When you place a HID bulb into an NON-HID housing; the reflector assembly can not properly focus the beam pattern. Replacing those bulbs with HID bulbs that produce 2.5 to 3 times the light yields a terrible and glaring beam pattern. You will have light going all over the place, most importantly into the eyes of drivers of oncoming vehicles. Even if you can tolerate such a beam pattern, your lights would be a safety hazard on the road. Many people try to solve this problem by lowering their lights. However, to reduce glare to acceptable levels, you would have to lower HID lights in halogen reflectors so much that you would not have much of a useable light increase over your stock setup, thus defeating the purpose of upgrading to HID's in the first place. The effect is even worse the higher up the color range you go.

The thread is closed but if the moderators could quote or reference post #13 of:http://www./showthread.php?t=2853&highlight=NHTSA (needs updating)
http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-hid-kits.htm
http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-reflectors.htm

4.
The next best approach to getting HID's into our cars is by using an existing OEM quality manufacturer. However since our cars never came with HID's as OEM we must rely on the few manufacturers out there producing DOT approved kits and lamp suppliers. (I only know of Revision 6 and Hella please add others)
In the end it doesn't really matter what route you take as long as the HID’s you are using are indeed a designed and DOT approved system.

Manufacturers:
http://www.revision6.com/forms/Product.aspx?ID=298
http://www.rallylights.com/hella/90mm_modules.asp

There are other DIY kits on the board as well.

5. Cost vs. Performance
Your quality OEM grade HID's are going to run you a pretty penny, it is not uncommon to pay $1000 for a pair of lights, more if you need to custom mount them or want more than 1 set. However few can argue the resulting performance benefit in a quality set of HID's. For roughly 10x the cost of a halogen bulb you will get 2.5x the light output, less power draw (35w vs. 55w) and superior longevity, roughly 7x-8x longer life over a halogen bulb and 5x+ longer life over most cheap HID units. If you take cost of ownership over the life of the unit, then quality HID's end up being only slightly more, however the large upfront costs can seem intimidating.

6. Conclusion
As you can probably see that combining an improperly designed system with a high color temperature is a recipe for glare, poor performance and unsafe conditions. What color do most 'conversion' kits push or advertise? 6000K+ usually, hopefully you can draw your own conclusions from here.

I hope this helps.

Kurdain · 07-20-2007, 05:45 AM

With the popularity of lighting accessories, especially HID headlights, I feel it deserves some additional attention.

Possibly a sticky or better yet its own sub-forum (next to show-n-shine maybe). There we can discuss the HID lights, tail light conversions, signal conversions....

Good? No?

bean · 07-21-2007, 01:26 AM

I was looking at GB's on Pegasus HID kits but the pictures he posted look like crap, not sure if he had only the HID on at the time though.

Kurdain · 08-12-2007, 08:59 AM

Bump?
Sticky?

MR2Board · 08-12-2007, 10:21 AM

We'll add it to the Knowledge Base once we have it setup and running.

www.mr2.com/kb

Kurdain · 09-25-2007, 03:58 AM

Bump.

MRFTMFW · 04-23-2008, 09:04 PM

it is illegal to put HID bulbs in housings that are not designed for it, and the manufacturers can actually get fined, talked to hella and rally lights about this.
soon the fines are going to start being a ticketable offense for drivers as well.
the hella H4 conversions housings for the sealed beam are great, and if you use the 80/100 h4s by hella, it is just as good as HIDs, it in fact kicks ass, I'll get some pics of my fogs and head lights in action.
there are H4/6054 sealed beam conversion housings designed for HID they are crazy expensive though, I get them at cost, and it's still wallet emasculated price.

PM me and I can get part numbers and more info on who local to you can get this stuff.
I work at NAPA and have access to a ton of resources and they are a page turn, click, or call away from me.

ice_mr2turbo · 05-03-2008, 03:06 PM

here is how i set up the hid kit in my fog lights, i got 6000k
i drilled hole so my fog would be waterproof

oem vs hid

both ballast in place i like my stuff original so i tried to keep it that way

MRFTMFW · 05-08-2008, 03:55 PM

no HID yellow? hehe
I have no idea why, but I'm a tool and like the yerrow

MisterSquared · 10-17-2008, 05:28 PM

Just FYI, you can put some stock HID systems into the MkII MR2 (as well as any car which uses H4 bulbs).

I, for example, have 2004 Lexus LS430 HID headlights in my 91 Mk2 SW21. Its a very easy swap. Just splice the ballasts into the stock wiring, and the bulbs slip perfectly into place in the stock headlight housings.

I pulled the headlight bulbs/ballasts and wiring off of a wrecked LS430 (only paid 125 bucks at the junk yard for them), and the wiring job took me about an hour or a little less.

I did the same for my friends 2000 Civic coupe, which also uses H4 bulbs.

The only downside is that you dont retain the brights, however, given the added lighting afforded by the HIDs, its not needed IMO.

Luni · 10-17-2008, 05:36 PM

I have McCullough HIDs, 8000k is the color temp, and heres some pics of my setup. Using Autopal H4 housings. Ive never been messed with by the police for these, Ive never been flashed on by oncoming cars because my lights were too bright.

In the last pic the light output looks kinda uneven, I got it looking better by re-aiming them and the road is uneven right there so it makes it look worse.

Overall I love my HIDs.

MisterSquared · 10-17-2008, 06:52 PM

That basically looks like what I've got.

rwdkid · 11-02-2008, 01:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luni

I have McCullough HIDs, 8000k is the color temp, and heres some pics of my setup. Using Autopal H4 housings. Ive never been messed with by the police for these, Ive never been flashed on by oncoming cars because my lights were too bright.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/fi...ATT4098936.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/fi...ATT4098937.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/fi...ATT4098939.jpg

In the last pic the light output looks kinda uneven, I got it looking better by re-aiming them and the road is uneven right there so it makes it look worse.

Overall I love my HIDs.

Where did you buy your H4 housing from ?

MR2 Drifter · 11-02-2008, 01:59 AM

HID foglights for the win

MR2-MRnot · 11-02-2008, 02:08 AM

nice write-up=, i have been looking into HID's for about a week (doesnt matter, i have to finish the swap first

but i just read the post and it cleared a few things up for me! 1 question tho, i got the totally rockin 6054 nonsealed beams off the Ebay! and i was wonderin if i could do HIDs in them? they ARE glass, and very high quality, only thing that worries me is the diamond cut, i has a bit of an issue CLOSE to the car, far away its fine, but right in front you can see the rigidity from the cut, any thoughts? <in the light i mean

Kurdain · 11-02-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR2-MRnot

nice write-up=, i have been looking into HID's for about a week (doesnt matter, i have to finish the swap first

but i just read the post and it cleared a few things up for me! 1 question tho, i got the totally rockin 6054 nonsealed beams off the Ebay! and i was wonderin if i could do HIDs in them? they ARE glass, and very high quality, only thing that worries me is the diamond cut, i has a bit of an issue CLOSE to the car, far away its fine, but right in front you can see the rigidity from the cut, any thoughts? <in the light i mean

Well quality of the components don't matter in some cases.

You could have state of the art reflectors.
You could have state of the art capsules (bulbs).

If the 2 aren't designed to work together you will still get poor performance despite having good components.

However you have already seen this, with the beam pattern near to the car. You should have good cut-off without any 'rigidity' in the pattern. This tells me you have light and dark spots within the beam pattern. This isn't ideal and I would return them if possible.

I am sure they are a solid good looking construction, it's the end result that is suffering. If you throw HID's in there the brighter output and/or different light wavelength, probably both, could very well make it worse.

It is really up to you and what you want to do.

IMHO I would rather spend the cash in high end, proven, extremely high quality HID lights and not worry about them or the bulbs or ballasts for...I dunno...5 years? More?

It's just my opinion, and thanks for the thumbs up....

eckoman_pdx · 11-02-2008, 11:30 PM

MR2-MRnot, although not ideal, I've seen guys with the H4 housings (Hella housings, Cibie, and Autopal) with HID's in them, and they all turned out fine and weren't blinding. What kind of housings do you have?

MisterSquared · 11-03-2008, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eckoman_pdx

MR2-MRnot, although not ideal, I've seen guys with the H4 housings (Hella housings, Cibie, and Autopal) with HID's in them, and they all turned out fine and weren't blinding. What kind of housings do you have?

Yup. Im using 2004 Lexus LS430 HIDs in my stock H4 housings. The bulbs fit perfectly in the stock housings. All I had to do was to splice the ballasts into the stock headlight wiring, connect it to the power, and plug the bulbs into the stock H4 housings. Its been working like a charm for 3+ years now, and they are aimed very well. Ive never had anyone complain about being blinded by my headlights, and yes, Ive even asked other people to check it out when Im driving.

This is basically the most cost effective way to get HIDs into basically any car which uses H4 housings.

07-20-2007, 05:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
Kurdain Cage Fighter Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 685 Thanks: 39 Thanked 35 Times in 29 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	*HID lighting FAQ sticky?* Maybe create new lighting forum? I borrowed content, links and sources from all over the web. I can post references if necessary, a lot borrowed from Subaru forum. HID FAQ and answers: 1. Does higher K (color) mean it’s brighter? No! The Kelvin scale is a measure of color temperature i.e. color of the light, not intensity or amount of light. HID setups that produce maximum light output are around 4100-4300K color temperature , and the higher you go, the less light output. A 10000-12000K HID kit will most likely be dimmer than your stock halogen lights. OEM HID's are 4100-4300K kits and will have the color of all the HID lights you see on cars that come equipped with them (like most BMWs, Mercedes-Benz', and other high end/luxury vehicles). The color is very white, while light output becomes progressively bluer as color temperature rises; 6000K is white/blue, 8000K is very blue, and above that you go towards purple. Also the higher the color range of the light the more it bleeds or glares. Amplify this effect by installing high color bulbs into NON-HID housings and the glare can become very bad. Good read with pictures on color, glare and beam patterns: http://www.intellexual.net/hid.html What is color temperature: http://www.hid-online.com/hidonline/...colourtemp.htm More on that: http://www.hidkits.com/tab_faqs_color.htm General HID info (scroll to bottom for stuff on brightness): http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-general.htm 2. What HID kit should I buy, what is the difference in quality? Aftermarket HID’s are sold by a large number of companies, although less so recently because of changing DOT/NHTSA regulations. However, to ensure the highest quality, make sure you buy HID that is made by an OEM HID manufacturer. OEM HID kits are the same products fitted to many vehicles (usually luxury) by manufacturers before they are sold as new vehicles. See this link: http://faqlight.carpassion.info/car-oem-hid.htm. Notice that almost all ballasts and bulbs used by car manufacturers are Bosch, Osram, Philips, or Hella. Bosch and Osram are not as readily available for retail, but Philips and Hella are. Kits that are not made by these companies are most likely not of the highest quality, although some aftermarket manufacturers such as Brightstar and McCullogh have been recognized as high quality products as well. Philips/Hella kits are generally considered the best. 3. Can I put HID into my stock halogen reflector lighting assembly? Yes. But it is strongly recommended that you do not**. Although it may not seem so, directing the light produced by a headlight bulb to the right places requires a good deal of precision. When you place a HID bulb into an NON-HID housing; the reflector assembly can not properly focus the beam pattern. Replacing those bulbs with HID bulbs that produce 2.5 to 3 times the light yields a terrible and glaring beam pattern. You will have light going all over the place, most importantly into the eyes of drivers of oncoming vehicles. Even if you can tolerate such a beam pattern, your lights would be a safety hazard on the road. Many people try to solve this problem by lowering their lights. However, to reduce glare to acceptable levels, you would have to lower HID lights in halogen reflectors so much that you would not have much of a useable light increase over your stock setup, thus defeating the purpose of upgrading to HID's in the first place. The effect is even worse the higher up the color range you go. The thread is closed but if the moderators could quote or reference post #13 of:http://www./showthread.php?t=2853&highlight=NHTSA (needs updating) http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-hid-kits.htm http://faqlight.carpassion.info/hl-reflectors.htm 4. The next best approach to getting HID's into our cars is by using an existing OEM quality manufacturer. However since our cars never came with HID's as OEM we must rely on the few manufacturers out there producing DOT approved kits and lamp suppliers. (I only know of Revision 6 and Hella please add others) In the end it doesn't really matter what route you take as long as the HID’s you are using are indeed a designed and DOT approved system. Manufacturers: http://www.revision6.com/forms/Product.aspx?ID=298 http://www.rallylights.com/hella/90mm_modules.asp There are other DIY kits on the board as well. 5. Cost vs. Performance Your quality OEM grade HID's are going to run you a pretty penny, it is not uncommon to pay $1000 for a pair of lights, more if you need to custom mount them or want more than 1 set. However few can argue the resulting performance benefit in a quality set of HID's. For roughly 10x the cost of a halogen bulb you will get 2.5x the light output, less power draw (35w vs. 55w) and superior longevity, roughly 7x-8x longer life over a halogen bulb and 5x+ longer life over most cheap HID units. If you take cost of ownership over the life of the unit, then quality HID's end up being only slightly more, however the large upfront costs can seem intimidating. 6. Conclusion As you can probably see that combining an improperly designed system with a high color temperature is a recipe for glare, poor performance and unsafe conditions. What color do most 'conversion' kits push or advertise? 6000K+ usually, hopefully you can draw your own conclusions from here. I hope this helps.

08-12-2007, 10:21 AM	#5 (permalink)
MR2Board MR2.com Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 549 Thanks: 20 Thanked 59 Times in 35 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (8/100% )	We'll add it to the Knowledge Base once we have it setup and running. www.mr2.com/kb __________________ ATS Racing - Berk Technology - Chico Race Works - EMS Powered - Gi_Shu_Som Powdercoating - HorsePowerFreaks - KO Racing - Lithia Toyota - MR2Only Magazine - Sea2Sky Tuning - Side 2 Side Racing - The MR2 Store Please support our sites! Beams-Redtop.com - Carpron.com - MR2SC.com - MR2Trader.com - RMMOC.com - TurboMR2.com - V6MR2.com Put your location on the MR2 Google Map!

10-17-2008, 05:28 PM	#10 (permalink)
MisterSquared UberSleepur Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: San Diego, CA - USA Posts: 95 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Just FYI, you can put some stock HID systems into the MkII MR2 (as well as any car which uses H4 bulbs). I, for example, have 2004 Lexus LS430 HID headlights in my 91 Mk2 SW21. Its a very easy swap. Just splice the ballasts into the stock wiring, and the bulbs slip perfectly into place in the stock headlight housings. I pulled the headlight bulbs/ballasts and wiring off of a wrecked LS430 (only paid 125 bucks at the junk yard for them), and the wiring job took me about an hour or a little less. I did the same for my friends 2000 Civic coupe, which also uses H4 bulbs. The only downside is that you dont retain the brights, however, given the added lighting afforded by the HIDs, its not needed IMO. Last edited by MisterSquared; 11-03-2008 at 02:50 PM.

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07-20-2007, 05:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
Kurdain Cage Fighter Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 685 Thanks: 39 Thanked 35 Times in 29 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	With the popularity of lighting accessories, especially HID headlights, I feel it deserves some additional attention. Possibly a sticky or better yet its own sub-forum (next to show-n-shine maybe). There we can discuss the HID lights, tail light conversions, signal conversions.... Good? No?

07-21-2007, 01:26 AM	#3 (permalink)
bean 91 NA Hardtop Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: SC Posts: 521 Thanks: 16 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	I was looking at GB's on Pegasus HID kits but the pictures he posted look like crap, not sure if he had only the HID on at the time though.

08-12-2007, 08:59 AM	#4 (permalink)
Kurdain Cage Fighter Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 685 Thanks: 39 Thanked 35 Times in 29 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Bump? Sticky?

09-25-2007, 03:58 AM	#6 (permalink)
Kurdain Cage Fighter Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 685 Thanks: 39 Thanked 35 Times in 29 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Bump.

04-23-2008, 09:04 PM	#7 (permalink)
MRFTMFW No Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 43 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	it is illegal to put HID bulbs in housings that are not designed for it, and the manufacturers can actually get fined, talked to hella and rally lights about this. soon the fines are going to start being a ticketable offense for drivers as well. the hella H4 conversions housings for the sealed beam are great, and if you use the 80/100 h4s by hella, it is just as good as HIDs, it in fact kicks ass, I'll get some pics of my fogs and head lights in action. there are H4/6054 sealed beam conversion housings designed for HID they are crazy expensive though, I get them at cost, and it's still wallet emasculated price. PM me and I can get part numbers and more info on who local to you can get this stuff. I work at NAPA and have access to a ton of resources and they are a page turn, click, or call away from me.

05-03-2008, 03:06 PM	#8 (permalink)
ice_mr2turbo Rebuilder Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 207 Thanks: 2 Thanked 9 Times in 2 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	here is how i set up the hid kit in my fog lights, i got 6000k i drilled hole so my fog would be waterproof oem vs hid both ballast in place i like my stuff original so i tried to keep it that way

05-08-2008, 03:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
MRFTMFW No Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 43 Thanks: 1 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	no HID yellow? hehe I have no idea why, but I'm a tool and like the yerrow

10-17-2008, 05:36 PM	#11 (permalink)
Luni ST185 Powered SW20 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Salt Lake City Utah Posts: 2,959 Thanks: 9 Thanked 106 Times in 92 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (8/100% )	I have McCullough HIDs, 8000k is the color temp, and heres some pics of my setup. Using Autopal H4 housings. Ive never been messed with by the police for these, Ive never been flashed on by oncoming cars because my lights were too bright. In the last pic the light output looks kinda uneven, I got it looking better by re-aiming them and the road is uneven right there so it makes it look worse. Overall I love my HIDs.

10-17-2008, 06:52 PM	#12 (permalink)
MisterSquared UberSleepur Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: San Diego, CA - USA Posts: 95 Thanks: 2 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	That basically looks like what I've got.

11-02-2008, 01:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
MR2 Drifter No Drifting Skills Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Chicago Posts: 956 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	HID foglights for the win

11-02-2008, 02:08 AM	#15 (permalink)
MR2-MRnot Cage Fighter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Akron, OH-IO Posts: 654 Thanks: 5 Thanked 17 Times in 15 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	nice write-up=, i have been looking into HID's for about a week (doesnt matter, i have to finish the swap first but i just read the post and it cleared a few things up for me! 1 question tho, i got the totally rockin 6054 nonsealed beams off the Ebay! and i was wonderin if i could do HIDs in them? they ARE glass, and very high quality, only thing that worries me is the diamond cut, i has a bit of an issue CLOSE to the car, far away its fine, but right in front you can see the rigidity from the cut, any thoughts? <in the light i mean

11-02-2008, 11:30 PM	#17 (permalink)
eckoman_pdx Custom Car Enthusiast Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 1,245 Thanks: 42 Thanked 71 Times in 59 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	MR2-MRnot, although not ideal, I've seen guys with the H4 housings (Hella housings, Cibie, and Autopal) with HID's in them, and they all turned out fine and weren't blinding. What kind of housings do you have?