MR2 For a First Car

[DavidV]

In response to the threads that tend to pop up every so often with 16/17/18 years olds asking if it is a good idea to get an MR2 as a first car, I would like to offer the following.

Short Answer: No

Long Answer:

The MR2 is a special and unique car. That is what so many of us spend so much time fixated on this message board, mailing lists, club events, etc. The reason you are here reading about the MR2, researching it, considering it is very likely that you have recognized the MR2 provides some features that set it apart from your run-of-the-mill VW/Honda/Acura/BMW/Toyota. Aside from its striking looks, you've probably observed that the MR2 has:

1) Mid Engine
2) Rear Wheel Drive
3) Short Wheelbase
4) McPherson Struts
5) On some models, Turbo

All of these attributes make the MR2 a tuner’s delight. While the car has tremendous bang for the buck right out of the box, with a little tuning and tweaking, all of the fundamentals are there for it to compete with true super cars like the 911, NSX, Lotus Esprit/Elise etc. That’s why we are all here, after all.

Invariably, posts come up with someone asking whether an MR2 would make a good first car. They can be bought fairly cheap these days, there’s a decent supply of aftermarket cosmetic and performance upgrades, and the idea of driving one around when all of your friends have Civics/Integras/GTIs/Celicas has a certain appeal. Thing is, you are far more likely to keep yourself and a Civic/Integra/GTI/Celica in one piece than an MR2. This should be a critical factor in selecting one’s first car. The fact that the MR2 is a highly impractical car (limited storage space, little to no wet weather and winter usability, higher servicing costs) don’t require any input from me or any of the other board/list members. This is a judgment call each of us is capable of making regardless of age/experience level.

However, the other more performance-oriented factors are worth some input from the older crowd. I’ll preface what I’m about to say by pointing out that these threads almost always follow the same pattern. 16/17/18 year old asks about MR2 as first car, older owner cautions that it might not be a great idea, other MR2 owners both old and young jump in and contradict this advice saying they got their MR2s at 16/17/18 and never wrecked it (despite having spun it 8 times in the first month they owned it). Original poster walks away with lots of contradictory feedback.

Without getting too philosophical, we all need to take responsibility for the choices we make in life. Buying an MR2 at 16/17/18 is one of them. Lots of people do it, love it, and have no regrets. That said, the MR2 is one of the most challenging cars to drive on the market, at any price. Seriously. It has enormous potential, but this is only true in very experienced hands. If you are not driving this car to its potential, you’d be just as happy in a Civic/Integra/GTI/Celica. If you are driving this car to the point where it is out performing your buddy’s Civic/Integra/GTI/Celica, you better have a whole lot of experience and/or natural talent.

Let’s look at the list of MR2 attributes above and why the car’s designers made a point of including them:

1) Mid Engine: Knife like precision handling. Transitions faster and sharper than a front or rear engined car. (Drag racing: launches hard)
2) Rear Wheel Drive: Ability to modulate the car’s cornering attitude with the throttle (Drag racing: Hooks up)
3) Short Wheel Base: Nimble
4) McPherson Struts: Lightweight.
5) Turbo: Power/Engine tuning potential

So, you have all the makings of a super car at a fraction of the price, with greater tunability, riding on the wheelbase of a VW GTI. Sounds like fun -- and it is!

However, let’s look at the list again:


1) Mid Engine: When it starts to spin, exceptionally tricky to recover. When it lets go, it gets ugly really fast.
2) Rear Wheel Drive: Go into a corner too fast and you can’t brake or lift off the throttle to save it. In fact, you have to either keep a steady foot on the gas, or even give it more throttle to keep the car from spinning This means you actually have to try to go faster when you are about to lose it from going too fast in order to keep the car from spinning.
3) Short Wheel Base: Little to no warning when you have exceeded the car’s limits.
4) McPherson struts: Car does not like bumps or surface irregularities mid corner. Hit a pothole or uneven surface and watch the tail step out of line.
5) Turbo: Lag/Boost is very tricky to modulate – especially on a modified car. If you need extra power to exit a corner and the turbo is not spooled because you let the revs drop or are in the wrong gear = you’re screwed. Hit boost early to mid corner when you’re close to the tire’s limits of adhesion = bye-bye.

So why did Toyota release this car on the market if it is so dangerous? Well, remember, when the MKII (’91-95) MR2 was released, you were not the target demographic. Toyota was selling this car as to 30-40 year olds with a large discretionary income looking to buy a 2nd or 3rd car for weekend drives. The MR2 was not a cheap car when new, and Toyota may not have anticipated the import tuner boom so popular with teenagers some 10 years after the MKII was launched. Also, look at what the Toyota designers changed with the MKIII MR2: no rear trunk (so owners wouldn’t screw up the handling balance by adding weight behind the engine), no turbo, stretched wheelbase relative to size/weight of the car.

Also, while the above list is true for MR2s generally, certain MR2s have a reputation for being more dangerous than others. Driving a ’91-92 turbo model (pre '93 suspension tuning revisions) tops the list of car’s requiring vast amounts of experience to drive at the limit. Professional drivers have walked away from lapping sessions with red faces from having spun these cars. An ’85 MKI model is less likely than a MKII turbo to allow an inexperienced driver to get in over his/her head, but also lacks the safety equipment (airbags, ABS, etc.) and sheer mass of later cars. The MKIII is probably the safest of the bunch, but most 16/17/18 year olds are looking at hopping up the older cars, not buying a new MKIII. Also, without installing an aftermarket roll bar, the MKIII is likely the least safe in a rollover.

None of this means a 16/17/18 year old should never get an MR2 as a first car. I’m sure there were 16/17/18 year olds who had a Corvair or Porsche 930 turbo as a first car and lived to tell about it. Those guys and gals are probably truly kick-ass drivers by now. However, unless you have the wisdom of Yoda, the patience of Gandhi and have been kart racing competitively since you were in diapers, the MR2 is probably not a responsible choice as a first car. There are always exceptions to the rule, but they are few and far between.

Anyway, as your parents will/have already told you, at 16/17/18 there are other things to focus on besides fixing up an MR2 (dating/school/etc.) Likewise, despite what your friends may have told you, fixing up an MR2 is nowhere near as inexpensive as a Honda/Acura/VW etc. While there is a healthy tuning market for these cars, most 16/17/18 year olds are not going to be able to recreate the fantasy MR2s they see or hear about without a large amount of discretionary income greatly exceeding the value of the car as well as a lot of time and dedication (neither of which is conducive to a balanced social/professional life -- at any age!). There is a pervasive myth of the 400rwhp with simple bolt-ons MR2, and the board and list members are in part to blame for perpetuating this myth since we all think so highly of the MR2. That said, the percentage of 300rwhp cars, let alone 400 is very, very small – even among the rabid enthusiasts who post on this board.

Bottom line: If the only way you will be happy with is if you have an MR2 as your first car, then nothing I or anyone else will say is likely to discourage you. However, keep in mind that many of us have owned and wrecked GTIs, Integras and (gasp) Civics before graduating to an MR2 later in life. If you are going to buy one, at 16/17/18 -- or any age -- make sure that the car is in a decent state of tune, with a proper alignment, good performance tires (in particular, never let the rear tires go bald), and brakes and spend some time learning how to drive the car. This does not mean going out by yourself in an empty parking lot (although this can be helpful for fine tuning technique and learning the car's reactions at the limit). Instead, sign up for a performance driving school at your local road course and make a point of going back at least once a year to freshen and improve on your skills. Sign up for a weekend autocross and ask the fastest drivers for ride-alongs to compare what they do differently out there than you. In particular, try to ride along in several different types of cars on the same course (front engine, mid engine, rear engine, FWD, RWD, AWD, turbo, NA, etc). Compare notes.

Above all, stay safe! As enthusiasts, we would all like to see MR2s stay on the road and our insurance premiums remain affordable.

-- DavidV

[mr2boost]

Sorry had to reply... mikeswickednick I agree with you "mr2xstyle- who are you trying to convince?" mr2xstyle talks about "driving good" yet in the same paragraph talks about driving "illegally for 1 year." I learned how to drive when I was 11, but I was off-road in my dad's 1948 Willy's jeep. Driving this jeep off-road (deer hunting and trails) taught me how to drive a stick. I was taken to tracks and go-kart racing as a kid too. I was NEVER allowed to drive on the streets illegally. My dad would have killed me for attempting such a thing. Most of us here on this board speak from experience, I mean I have been driving and racing cars longer than you (mr2xstyle) have been alive. I can tell you truthfully that there is an equal amount of teenagers that know what they have in an MR2 and they treat it with respect, just as there are those that will act a fool no matter what kind of car they have. What most of us really need to say is that... IF you are buying this car out of your own $$$ and paying your own insurance then you probably have some LEGAL driving experience and will be MUCH LESS LIKELY to act crazy in your car (MR2) that YOU buy. I had to buy every car I ever owned and pay the insurance too. I knew my parents could afford to get me a car. But, I quickly learned why they chose not too. Why? It made me treat the car better and I was much less likely to wreck it (which I did not do to any of my cars). mr2xstyle are you likely to wreck a MR2 when you get one?? Probably NOT, because you know what a special and uniquely different car it is to drive and the MR2 is what YOU WANT. But, seeing how you talk of illegally driving it makes me wander if you will be careful. I think you will just because of your knowledge of the MR2. But, those out there with NO or limited experience with fast cars and especially mid-engined fast cars should be wary of the MR2.
Sorry if I have offended anyone, it has not been my intention to do so. But, being a Firefighter/Paramedic with the Memphis Fire Dept. for 11 years now I have seen my share of auto accidents and do NOT wish to see kids destroying a good car nor especially their life (or worse someone elses life).

To me it all comes down to MATURITY behind the wheel. My young friend with the 94T is more mature than some 30 year olds I know. And I would never offer an MR2 (especially MR2 turbo) to those inmature and inexperienced older drivers, just because of the nature of this car. I think what makes the MR2 so dangerous is that it is cheap to purchase, which is NOT like most really fast cars out there (i.e FD rx7's, 300zxTT, 3000gtTT, SupraTT, Corvette, etc...). Just be smart and use a LONG learning curve and ANY driver can learn and get used to the MR2. LOL

Daniel

[PeStVic]

so since im about to get one. and ive been driving for a while
(YES legaly, im 18. and got my licence as soon as i could. around 16, its not long at all but its somthing. not just starting out with an mr2)

and i know stick pretty good. and ive never gotten a ticket, broken any laws (with the exception of maybe running a couple YELLOW lights. im sure everyone has done that, and thats not even that bad)

i always go the limit maybe 5 over tops. i just want one cause i fell in love with these cars, i drove one before loved the feel of it, loved the look of it, and just want a nice looking bad ass affordable car.

i DO plan on going to the local raceway and taking some racing classes, BUT, the track is like a 45 minute drive away through curvey mountain roads (live in reno nevada). so im wondering since i drive pretty much safe all the time. will the mr2 make it to the track going the limit and being 100% safe? cause from what it sounds like you guys make it seem like if you jerk the car just a litttttle bit. even at 20mph the car will spin out.

and of course i dont plan to race this bad boy in the streets thats just stupid.
if anything like comming up to a light and some guy comes up to race me just drag him or somthing. nothing extreme. and all the roads here are nice and flat not to much curves or anything like that. so i dont think that will matter?

anyway i just want your advice, voice and oppinion. cause ive read lots about this car and im pretty set on getting one. and as for the money pit thing i have the funds to maintain my car and all of that. im pretty responsible when it comes to that. (unlike my brother who blew his other cars engine, due to lack of oil change. :-P but hes being responsible now and paying for the engine and im pretty sure he learned his lesson haha) ive read a lot about maintaining this car and im pretty sure i can get that nailed. (im also going to buy a really GOOD jack and jack stands so start myself off just in case. and if anything. if im not sure about somthing ill take the car to the shop.

also ive vowed to myself not to let ANYONE drive my car except a fellow MR2 owner. (this was caused by me reading that mR2's have a completely different driving style, and i will only let the people who know that different style of driving, drive my car. also i know some of my friends who like to try that ricer drift crap in the streets) so thats a straight up NO when they ask to drive my car

so would you say im worthy?

i mean once i start taking racing classes at the track and get used to my car, i still dont think i will race in the streets. except drags probably those are fun.

Thanks a lot guys and i aprieciate all of you guy on this board helping out everyone else oh and if you are going to respond could you also send your post following mine to my PM box incase i cant find this thread again?

again Thanks and i cant wait to get my Mr2 in the next month or so

[WoRR Pyro]

I kinda have to chime in with my story at this point. I'm currently 19, and the MR2 is my second car. I've had my license for nearly 2 years now, and my first car was a 2002 saturn SL1. Great learning car, except it had **** for power, stick, plastic, and unfortunatly FWD. Being young and dumb, i pushed that car as hard as I could, and after learning how to slide it, I had a few close calls while driving hard and decided I needed a better platform to start with. Drift0 style and all, I was in love with the 2. I went and bought one with college money that was saved up, without doing the proper research. Suffice to say, it didn't work out as well as I'd hoped. One of the first things i did with the car after all the work being done to it, and the turbo added etc etc, was take it to an autocross. Every single lap, I could not control the weight transfer of the car, so I reverted to what I knew best, how to make a car understeer, stupid FWD. Suffice to say, after I autox'ed I was scared to drive at the speed limit, much less push my car on the street. Still am, since part of me knows that if I crash, I'm FUBAR'ed, since I have no other car. My experience driving another car has saved my 2 from untold numbers of accidents, and thus, I personally cannot recommend a MR2 as a first car.

As for PestVic, I have a house in Truckee, close to you, and the weather there is not very .. good for owning an MR2. Our car's really are not meant to be driven in adverse weather, but they can be. It just takes a LOT of experience, and a bit of caution. All of my near accidents have been in miserable weather. Yes, you more than likely will be able to get to the track safely if you drive the speed limit, and if you obey every little yellow sign that shows turn speed and go exactly that speed, you shouldn't crash. They have those signs for a reason, and our cars can handle twice those yellow signs if not more in good conditions with a good driver. Doesn't mean I recommend it. Racing streets.. ahh, there was a video on here somewhere of an MR2 trying to peel out and crashing into a parking lot.. Save any and all of it at the track, just sit there and laugh at them, knowing that your car if asked could easily take them. So why bother? Goodluck and welcome to the community. Please make sure you get a real mechanic to look over the car before you buy it

[PeStVic]

yeah but its WAY different in tahoe than it is in the downtown sparks area.

the weather it pretty much always dry here. with the exception of last year where it snowed 47928347293 feet haha and plus im planning on only driving it durring the dry times

yeah man for sure. ill have a mech look at it and all ive read a lot for what to look for and all that.
thanks to you guys

[rushMr2]

I think this is a really good topic so im gonna go ahead and chime my story in too. I currently am 16 and have had my widebody mr2 since my birthday. Its not all roses though as I had a little difficulty actually being able to drive it. The person i bought it from had just gotten done doing an engine swap because his engine was blown. Well about two weeks after he got it back I took over, and had it for about 3 days until the head gasket on THAT engine was gone. I took it to the toyota dealership locally which had the local MR2 specialist, and it turned out that the 'new ' engine had about 200 thousand miles on it, and for the most part was also completely destroyed. Well two months and six thousand dollars later I had my mr2 back with a brand spankin new engine. (well almost they removed the head, remanufactured it, and put it back in to save $$$). I think for the first two weeks I had my mr i stayed at least 5 mile under the speed limit because i was so afraid of crashing it. Now about actually owning the car for a first car, I would say that it all depends on maturity. I know that there are only a handful of people at my school that have the driving capability to handle having one of these cars without destroying it. everyday I hang my head in shame as these idiots think its so cool to drift out of the parking lot in gridlock traffic. Also I spent my time with my permit driving an s2000, a 2005 645i and my cousins integra gsr, which probably gave me an edge among drivers my age. Actually this is a true story, when i was doing my driving school, we had this boat of a mustang, and our instructor took us to the local backroads to get some experience on curvy roads, well he said that out of everyone he teaches, there are maybe 3 a year that really know what they are doing, and aperrently I was one of them so he let me take those roads as fast as I wanted. (even though that mustang couldnt turn for **** after coming out of an s2k.) But ya thats my story all in alll Id say that if anyone were to get an MR2 for a first car, just TAKE YOUR TIME learning to drive it and dont go off thinking that the car is invincible and they would be just fine.

[Changmeister88]

Thx dav, nicely put wat u said about getting a mr2, father is a car mechanic and has been for like 30 years or so, already gave me that lecture telling me u have to be experienced, not planning to get it till like 19 or so, On my L's now but i know how to use a car, few times have taken parentsd car and went for a drive, can drift like yoda around corners, know how to handle a car great ;-), MR2 is probably much more powerful then the cars i have drove, I will get used to it hopefully, not planning to push it, going to get used to driving it first, dont want to get into crap loads of crashes like my brother, After researching MR2's for a year or so im stuck to it, So any suggestions u can give me about buying a MR2 Would be great, father will help me fix my car up and i will just take it easy, thx man

[yom's thinking of an mr2]

this thread has pretty much answered all my question except a few little ones. It hasn't turned me off of one, but got me thinking about it. so i'm gonna get one...later down the road.

heres the plan: get a civic, beat the hell out it's poor little transmission, and get yet another reason to say "god damnit i wish i had a civic". then sell it. get a 240, e30 bmw 3 series, something rwd that doesn't have electronics that are always on with the sole purpose of keeping the back end in place. then when i get good and ready (see: financially secure) get an mr2 or mr-s what ever i can get my hands on.

i like my little idea, and wholey endorse it. if you're like me, a guy who hasn't driven a manual in a couple of years (let alone one in a rwd car) then it gives you a chance to get back into driving a manual transmission.

there, 2cents from a noob. take it as you will

[sinESter]

hey guys, i was have been thinking about getting an mr2 for probly 2 years now. i like to be different and was thinking about a '91 dodge stealth es. my friend has a really nice one and you dont see them around much, but living in north dakota you see your fair share of honda's, 240's, 3s's etc. but i have not seen one mr2 mkll, so i cannot go by what i have seen in real life. i plan on opening a performance shop w/ my friend who owns the stealth, so i plan on being around cars my whole life. i am 15 and getting my license this spring. it will be my first car, but i can drive a manual pretty good
( advantage of working on farms). would it be better to get a n/a and upgrade or go with a turbo right away??? i mean i respect cars and their power, since i own a streetbike and have seen what can happen. what do u guys think...

[CyFi]

i have an mr2 91 5 speed na, just got it recently, i dont even have my license yet and ive been driving it with no problems, ive taken it around some tight corners at legal speeds without any slippage at all. are you guys talking that its very dangerous when you go fast or even at legal speeds? any tips for me to help me drive it better. its completely stock. i obviously cant go down to the tracks because i dont have my license, so that is out for now.

[ZMR2]

Originally Posted by mr2boost

To me it all comes down to MATURITY behind the wheel. My young friend with the 94T is more mature than some 30 year olds I know. And I would never offer an MR2 (especially MR2 turbo) to those inmature and inexperienced older drivers, just because of the nature of this car. I think what makes the MR2 so dangerous is that it is cheap to purchase, which is NOT like most really fast cars out there (i.e FD rx7's, 300zxTT, 3000gtTT, SupraTT, Corvette, etc...). Just be smart and use a LONG learning curve and ANY driver can learn and get used to the MR2. LOL

Daniel

I totally agree with this, Maturity is probably the key to driving any car. I own a 300zx convertible, same price range as the twin turbos
and I admit I was immiture then. After I wrecked it, I realized you have to treat the car the same way you treat a high powered official, with respect. I wouldnt care how old you are, (yes you have to be legal) just as long as you know how to drive and how you learn from your mistakes and learning first and not just going out there and screwing everything.
You just need to take time with as any car just more attencion with this car.
B/c it so much fun if you take care of it and it takes care of you

[Miss2]

I really learned to drive on my MkI MR2. I'd driven an auto. a little before, but that's not really driving. If anything I feel like I have a strong understanding and feel for rear-wheel power and for the car's power in general. But as mentioned before, maturity is absolutely important when it comes to driving. Respect the car, and you'll fall in everlasting love with MR2s.

As with any car, maintenance and attention are a must. You can only get away with mistreating a car you don't plan on being with for very long. Learn as much as you can about your car, and even if you don't do the work yourself, you'll know what needs to be done.

The MR2 is an experience. Don't get one if you're not prepared to drive it responsibly until you're a good enough driver to control the awesome power.

No worries though, it's not like you'll have a head of greys before that happens. I could handle my car in a zippy, but non-ticketable way within a year. And I'm a girl. I'm pretty sure it's a known fact that girls are terrible drivers. Hormones or cell phones I think.

I'm just awesome.

[3sgtepower]

Unfortunately I showed the worst driver I ever met, what an MR2 Turbo is capable of, and now hes sold on getting one. This guy drives like an absolute maniac. My first time driving with him, he tried passing a car on a single lane bridge doing 90mph, by hugging up against the wall *REALLY* close, I swore I was going to die. This was in his cavaleir, primered grey with a crappy magnaflow exhaust and some other ricer mods like underglows.

He learned how to race from watching fast and furious a million times. Even told me he wants to own an orange supra with a bodykit just like in fast and furious. He is literally a real life version of paul walker.

Unfortunately, I showed him what a *real* car is capable of doing, and now hes sold on getting one just like mine, if not better. He can barely handle his cavalier, and now hes looking for 300whp MR2 Turbos. Yea, hes definitly going to total it. I went riding with him in the cavalier last week, seeing if maybe he had redeemed himself in the last 6 months and actually is better at driving. But the kid drives like an absolute idiot still. To get into the left hand turn lane w/o having to wait for the light, he went over the double yellow for a good 600ft. Stupidest driver Ive ever met, Im gettin tired of stupid people, and I wish I had never shown him my car.

[TKMR2]

^^^^ hahaha.

[Nik]

Well I figured I should weight in...

My dad brought the MR2 home when I was four. It was the first car I ever drove. He had me driving it around in parkinglots when I was 15 before I got my permit, then once I got it he always drove with me. As soon as I got my license I began autoxing and learned what the car was really capable of. But the car was not mine until I graduated highschool (or when I walked anyway, I actually finished a year early). For a year I had to drive my mom's truck, which was a source of much frustration at the time but now I see why and can appreciate it.

Can it be done? Yes. Is it smart or responcible? Not even close without precautions.

These cars are difficult to drive, and it is not mearly a matter of knowing how to drive stick as mr2xstyle suggests... (and btw I hope you realize you sound like an idiot. If you want any credibility type in basic conversational english as a minimum... not whatever that was.) If you're just driving around town on a sunny day they're fine, but we all know you're not going to do that. You're going to hit the twisties, you're going to drive in the rain, you may even be crazy enough to hit the twisties in the rain, you're going to try to impress your lady friends. The fact of the matter is, that the handling of these cars is not intuitive. When you find yourself in an emergency situation you don't have time to think, just react. You always hear about the bad "snap oversteer" these cars have. Well I can tell you that there's no such thing. It's an excuse used by people who can't drive to explain why they just spun out and wrapped it around a tree. No amount of reading about how to properly avoid a spin can save you when it happens; YOU CAN'T THINK, it has to become instinctive. Most people's reaction is to let off the gas, and in most cars that works great. That's what's intuitive, and sometimes it will even work in an mr2 (power oversteer.) But these cars aren't intuitive. That doesn't mean they're dangerous, they're just different. I was able to start off with a clean slate, and in the proper environment learned to drive the car and developed the instincts necessary to do so safely.

I recommend that everyone who buys an MR2, young or old, goes out and does an autox or two. But if its your first car, do a season, and don't whine about the entry fees like I see so often. If you can't afford it you can't afford the car.

[sinESter]

if all goes planned this summer when i go to oregon ill be purchasing an mk2. ill probably get an n/a. if i find a turbo within my price range ill buy it but i think im gonna get an n/a. then when im used to it and have sufficient funds to afford a 3sgte ill purchase one and swap it in. i have googled and havent found any racing schools but there is some autox where i live, so ill probably take the car there to learn more about its limits. i guess unlike mr2xstyle im not here to convince u im good enough, and im not here to convince myself im good enough, just to learn so basically wish me luck. hopefully ill be joining the ranks here shortly.

[MrGrimm]

im skipping everything the same question has been asked and answered at least 500 times on this page. okay i drive 40 miles to work everyday. i live in missouri, which we have rain snow blah blah. now i have a civic and have never driven a rear wheel drive car. i have goofed off with a ford lighting but thats somthing totally different sense the weight is opposite the mr2. im just wondering if this car is good enough to drive 80 miles a day(2 or 3 times a week) and is safe in rain as long as its now pouring at an extreme rate. the road to work has some curves. i slow down before i turn, not as i turn, so would i be alright? and aside from that, how is sharp cornering in the dry weather? i have read nothing but good on this car the last few years, i dont want to have to go with a tt 300zx. they be ugly! help me out!

[WoRR Pyro]

Yes, your mr2 would survive in adverse weather. Hell, you can get it to drive in snow, but it's not designed for it, nor recommended.. But it will get through corners in the rain, and cornering is a blast in dry weather. You'll have to keep in mind that when it gets wet, steering response and everything else is going to be very different. It feels more loose for me, but i'm also a little light in the front end. Granted that there's no huge standing water puddles, you should be fine. It's like any car, where it takes time to get used to, and once you get used to certain settings, that's how you expect it to work. I've seen some good doorstops, and i've seen some bad door wedges.. (300z) I had the clutch distance get adjusted on my turbo, and making a left turn in the rain, since the catchpoint was higher, I was trying to catch it, and ended up spooling the turbo instead, which caused my rear to go. This was all outside of CRW as well. But anyway, I caught it, didn't let it spin, etc. My point is, once you get used to it, it's easy, it'll just take the experience that say autox will give you to understand the cars behaviors.

[MrGrimm]

cool beans, now help me with a problem i cant get out of my head. im going to college for automotive collision repair,so things are a bit cheaper for me. but i dunno what body kit i want, nor do i know if i should get burnt orange, or a blood red metallic...? any help?i like the vielside/vader(same thing it looks like) and i 100% love the greddy kit. seems kinda common but, those side skirts are kickin! the vader also makes it look kinda cheaper or somthing... not as sporty maybe? i dunno what it is i used to be all about it now im fading from it. and why is there no single center roof scoop like the nsx has that branches off to both sides?! im gonna make one once i graduate if i dont find one before hand. im going down to pheonix soonish to take some carbon fiber classes... a carbon fiber roof scoop would bring bank eh?

[WoRR Pyro]

I'd have to say go ask in Show and Shine and those places, and take a look. There's lots of pictures of kits there and in the other board. Body kits are personal preference, and a lot of people like to mix and match. Say border front, tom's sides, and whatever else. My personal two favorites are the Phoenix's Power kit and the TRD widebody. Otherwise, I like stock body better =).