Information on Amsoil Synthetics

Sirc · 07-26-2006, 03:00 AM

To cut all the foreplay, I'm just going to straight out say that, from all of my research, Amsoil is the greatest gift to automotive since the racheted wrench, and this is why:

http://www.amsoil.com/

This is their main website.

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests.aspx

This is what has lead me to believe that they are so awesome. I've been reading up on other oil websites and such, but this is the most comprehensive testing shown of all of them.

http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstor...=ASTM+D4683-04

That is a description of the ASTM (American Society for Testing Materials) D-4683 test. Basically, they have this tapered bearing machine and they run the oil through this machine at 150 degrees celcius, the machine is called a TBS Viscometer or tapered bearing simulator-viscometer. It tests for cP, which is a measurement of viscosity... at 150*C or around 302*F.

If you care, to get the cP of something here is the formula to get it:

Force = Pl x (Area of plate) x (speed) / (thickness)

Changing speed to Distance per second distance / time :

Force = Pl x (Area of plate) x (distance) / (thickness) x (time)

Rearranging to solve for the Poise value for tar:

Pl = Force x (thickness) x (time) / [(Area of plate) x (distance)]

or:

Pl = Nms/m3 = Ns/m2

This will get you the measurement of a Poiseuille. But the majority of the world uses "c" of P, or centa-poise, or 1/100th of a poise, thus cP, because water has a viscocity of 1.002cP, which is the closest most universal lubricant that is closest to 1.

Amsoil 20w-50 motorcycle oil has a cP of 6.02cP at 150*C, or 302*Fand Amsoil 10w-40 motorcycle oil has a cP of 4.52. So think about that for a minute, Amsoil is 6 times more viscous than water at over 300*F. So next time you are spanking someone at the tracks, you can tell them that you raped them... with a great lube! The stability of the oil is just amazing.

But most of you don't ride motorcycles, so what about cars? Well, one of the tests they use is a "Thin film oxygen uptake test" or TFOUT. In this test they determine the oxidation stability of engine oils for gas powered automotive engines. This test is run at 160*C or 320*F using a high pressure reactor that is pressurized with oxygen along with a metal catalyst (something to make the metal react) package, a fuel catalyst (something to make the fuel go boom) and water in a partial simulation of what an oil may be subjected to in a gasoline engine. To make this clear, your engine will get to about 320*F when you're racing on a race track running your car as hard as you can on a hot day, and even then, that's a bit high. Usually your car runs around 180*F (80*C). In the tests that I read, Amsoil, at 500 minutes, was still stable, throughout all this abuse. And of course, they use the most commonly used oil, 10W-30. What does this mean for you? It means that the oil has superior heat and oxdidation resistance meaning less sludge and carbon buildup and an extended oil life.

And what about the stability of regular automotive engine oil as compared to motorcycle oil? Well, the cP of regular automotive engine oil is 3.23, so meaning it's 3 times more viscious or lubricative than water at 150*C. A-freaking-mazing. While Pennzoil is only 3.05 times more viscous. This may not seem like much, but at the quantum level every little minute number counts.

These two tests are probably the most important tests for which oil is best for your motor, however, Amsoil also has a few more tricks up its sleeves:

- In the NOACK test (a test, using a NOACK machine, that shows how much an oil evaporates in high temperature service.) Amsoil wins. The more an oil evaporates the thicker and heavier it becomes, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy (drivetrain has to work harder), and increased oil consumption, wear and the biggie, emissions. Amsoil loses 5.44% while Pennzoil loses about 9.5% in weight.

-In the Pour Point Test (a test that shows the lowest temperature at which a lubricant will still flow) amsoil seriously wins again. At -58*F, or 14*C it still can flow enough to start your motor. While name brand oils like Havoline (-27.4*F) and Pennzoil (-34.6*F) fall way behind. 20 degrees is the difference between being in the shade and being in the sun.

-Amsoil protects against wear. Plain and simple. You hear commercials say that all the time, but what the hell does it really mean? Who knows? I DO! In the standard four-ball method (a test where they run the lubricant through a 4-ball bearing machine at 40kg of pressure at 150*C (302*F) at 1800rpms for 1 hour and then measure the size of the scar on the ball) Amsoil's scar was only .45mm which is about a 1/100th of an inch. In comparison, Pennzoil's scar was 1.8mm, being the worst oil at this test.

So in conclusion (I love using this literary device), if you don't use Amsoil, then you're doing a disservice to your car. Amsoil is King. The end. You can go on with your lives now. Thank you for your time.

Raptor13x · 07-26-2006, 07:13 AM

Who is supposed to be surprised? Amsoil rocks.

PHOENIX · 07-26-2006, 07:36 AM

cliff notes: Sirc thinks Amsoil is good

I use Quaker state synthentic since that is the only synthetic i can get out here and the oil they have is generic wallmart style brand.

Sirc · 07-26-2006, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PHOENIX

cliff notes: Sirc thinks Amsoil is good

I use Quaker state synthentic since that is the only synthetic i can get out here and the oil they have is generic wallmart style brand.

O rly. Where are you?

Raptor13x · 07-26-2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sirc

O rly. Where are you?

PHOENIX
Living Vicariously

PHOENIX's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Tachikawa, Japan
Posts: 2,434
iTrader Rating: 6 / 100%

Sirc · 07-26-2006, 05:42 PM

Sometimes he's in Japan, sometimes I see that he's in Korea, then sometimes I read that he's home in the good ol' USA.

Sirc · 07-27-2006, 12:20 AM

Some more on Amsoil vs. Royal Purple:

Amsoil beats out Royal Purple

Quote:

RUST PROTECTION 10W-40
TEST METHOD ASTM D-1748

- AMSOIL MCF - Clean - Pass
- Honda HP4 - Clean - Pass
- Mobil 1 MX4T - Clean - Pass
- Motul 300V - Clean - Pass
- Maxima Maxum 4 - Light (1-10 rust spots) - Failed
- Belray EXS - Medium (11-20 rust spots) - Failed
- Royal Purple - Heavy (21+ rust spots) - Failed
- Castrol GPS - Heavy (21+ rust spots) - Failed
- Valvoline Motorcycle - Heavy (21+ rust spots) - Failed
- Pennzoil Motorcycle - Heavy (21+ rust spots) - Failed
- Golden Spectro N4 - Heavy (21+ rust spots) - Failed

RUST PROTECTION 20W-50

- AMSOIL MCI - Clean - Pass
- Yamalube 4R - Clean - Pass
- Mobil 1 Supersyn V Twin - Clean - Pass
- Honda HP4 - Light (1-10 rust spots) - Failed
- H-D Screamin Eagle - Light (1-10 rust spots) - Failed
- BMW - Light (1-10 rust spots) - Failed
- Valvoline Motorcycle - Medium (11-20 rust spots) - Failed
- Motul 300V - Heavy (21+ rust spots) - Failed
- Castrol V Twin - Heavy (21+ rust spots) - Failed
- Belray EXS - Heavy (21+ rust spots) - Failed
- Castrol GPS - Heavy (21+ rust spots) - Failed
- Royal Purple - Heavy (21+ rust spots) - Failed
- Golden Spectrum N4 - Heavy (21+ rust spots) - Failed

SHEAR STABILITY 10W-40
TEST METHOD ASTM D-4683 (HT/HS)

- AMSOIL MCF: 4.52 cP
- Golden Spectro N4: 4.49 cP
- Motul 300V: 4.28 cP
- Maxima Maxum 4: 4.22 cP
- Mobil 1 MX4T: 4.15 cP
- Valvoline Motorcycle: 4.08 cP
- Belray EXS: 4.00 cP
- Royal Purple: 3.94 cP
- Pennzoil Motorcycle: 3.71 cP
- Castrol GPS: 3.69 cP
- Honda HP4: 3.68 cP

SHEAR STABILITY 20W-50
TEST METHOD ASTM D-4683 (HT/HS)

- AMSOIL MCI: 6.02 cP
- Mobil 1 Supersyn V-Twin: 5.94 cP
- Golden Spectro N4: 5.48 cP
- H/D Screamin Eagle: 5.45 cP
- Royal Purple: 5.34 cP
- Motul 300V: 5.29 cP
- Castrol GPS: 5.10 cP
- BMW: 5.09 cP
- Valvoline Motorcycle: 5.01 cP
- Yamalube 4R: 4.99 cP
- Castrol V-Twin: 4.91 cP
- Honda HP4: 4.55 cP
- Belray EXS: 4.39 cP

WEAR COMPARISON 10W-40
TEST METHOD ASTM D-4172 (4-BALL)

- AMSOIL MCF: 0.40 mm
- Motul 300V: 0.40 mm
- Mobil 1 MX4T: 0.40 mm
- Honda HP4: 0.60 mm
- Maxima Maxum 4: 0.60 mm
- Belray EXS: 0.60 mm
- Pennzoil Motorcycle: 0.60 mm
- Castrol GPS: 0.65 mm
- Valvoline Motorcycle: 0.70 mm
- Golden Spectro N4: 0.70 mm
- Royal Purple: 1.08 mm

Weasy2k · 09-12-2006, 01:31 PM

Royal Purple Sucks....

I still like Mobil 1....i may try this amsoil stuff tho...since i can be a dealer

osoRiceMR2 · 09-12-2006, 03:37 PM

Mobil 1 Syn 4 ever.

Sirc · 09-12-2006, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by osoRiceMR2

Mobil 1 Syn 4 ever.

No. It kind of sucks.

Gairloch · 08-24-2007, 04:27 AM

I know this is over a year late, but what do you base that on Sirc?

Servin · 08-18-2008, 11:58 PM

Super late but I don't know why mobil 1 sucks it came in the top three in almost all of the tests. And it's alot cheaper than amsoil. Just my $.02 I'll stick to mobil 1.

toy-driver · 08-21-2008, 09:57 AM

Mobil 1 needs to be changed about once a month.
Amsoil needs to be changed every 25,000 miles or one year. That's why.
I don't trust Amsoil that much. So I change my oil every 10,000 miles because my car has 225,000 miles on it.

Servin · 08-21-2008, 10:20 AM

Once a Month?! Holy crap what kind of driving do you do that you drive 36,000 miles a year! I dont trust it either while it might not break down over time like most oils it still gets dirty. Im not running my car with 25k old oil, thats like taking a bath with the same water for a year: its just nasty.

toy-driver · 08-23-2008, 02:35 AM

I used to drive about 700 a week, I've cut back since then. Alot of people change their oil every 3 or 4 thousand miles. To get the 25K out of the oil you're to use the amsoil oil filters. They are apparently really good (and expensive). I just run Wix for now.
By the way Amsoil isn't that much more than mobil 1.

Sirc · 09-02-2008, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Servin

Once a Month?! Holy crap what kind of driving do you do that you drive 36,000 miles a year! I dont trust it either while it might not break down over time like most oils it still gets dirty. Im not running my car with 25k old oil, thats like taking a bath with the same water for a year: its just nasty.

Amsoil doesn't break down nearly as fast as mobil 1.

I use mobil 1 on my 93 Honda accord, because i'm driving it into the ground.

lsgheero · 09-02-2008, 07:54 PM

I just use castrol gtx used to use their high rpm oil but cant find it anymore so I changed to antisludge, but I change my oil monthly anyway so not sure it really matters much lol.

Sirc · 09-03-2008, 03:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsgheero

I just use castrol gtx used to use their high rpm oil but cant find it anymore so I changed to antisludge, but I change my oil monthly anyway so not sure it really matters much lol.

Changing your oil that much is actually bad for your car.

Old Coot · 10-05-2008, 07:03 PM

Here's a couple of links on both Amsoil and Mobil one,,,check the results
Both are good oils but no one can honestly say One is Better than the Other,,

Just some food for thought, guys

Mobil 1 Test Results

Amsoil Test Results

Check these out, you might be surprised

tjmr2 · 10-13-2008, 02:04 AM

Sirc, could you explain how changing the oil once a month can be bad for a car?

07-26-2006, 03:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
Sirc Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,967 Thanks: 6 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Information on Amsoil Synthetics To cut all the foreplay, I'm just going to straight out say that, from all of my research, Amsoil is the greatest gift to automotive since the racheted wrench, and this is why: http://www.amsoil.com/ This is their main website. http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests.aspx This is what has lead me to believe that they are so awesome. I've been reading up on other oil websites and such, but this is the most comprehensive testing shown of all of them. http://webstore.ansi.org/ansidocstor...=ASTM+D4683-04 That is a description of the ASTM (American Society for Testing Materials) D-4683 test. Basically, they have this tapered bearing machine and they run the oil through this machine at 150 degrees celcius, the machine is called a TBS Viscometer or tapered bearing simulator-viscometer. It tests for cP, which is a measurement of viscosity... at 150C or around 302F. If you care, to get the cP of something here is the formula to get it: Force = Pl x (Area of plate) x (speed) / (thickness) Changing speed to Distance per second distance / time : Force = Pl x (Area of plate) x (distance) / (thickness) x (time) Rearranging to solve for the Poise value for tar: Pl = Force x (thickness) x (time) / [(Area of plate) x (distance)] or: Pl = Nms/m3 = Ns/m2 This will get you the measurement of a Poiseuille. But the majority of the world uses "c" of P, or centa-poise, or 1/100th of a poise, thus cP, because water has a viscocity of 1.002cP, which is the closest most universal lubricant that is closest to 1. Amsoil 20w-50 motorcycle oil has a cP of 6.02cP at 150C, or 302Fand Amsoil 10w-40 motorcycle oil has a cP of 4.52. So think about that for a minute, Amsoil is 6 times more viscous than water at over 300F. So next time you are spanking someone at the tracks, you can tell them that you raped them... with a great lube! The stability of the oil is just amazing. But most of you don't ride motorcycles, so what about cars? Well, one of the tests they use is a "Thin film oxygen uptake test" or TFOUT. In this test they determine the oxidation stability of engine oils for gas powered automotive engines. This test is run at 160C or 320F using a high pressure reactor that is pressurized with oxygen along with a metal catalyst (something to make the metal react) package, a fuel catalyst (something to make the fuel go boom) and water in a partial simulation of what an oil may be subjected to in a gasoline engine. To make this clear, your engine will get to about 320F when you're racing on a race track running your car as hard as you can on a hot day, and even then, that's a bit high. Usually your car runs around 180F (80C). In the tests that I read, Amsoil, at 500 minutes, was still stable, throughout all this abuse. And of course, they use the most commonly used oil, 10W-30. What does this mean for you? It means that the oil has superior heat and oxdidation resistance meaning less sludge and carbon buildup and an extended oil life. And what about the stability of regular automotive engine oil as compared to motorcycle oil? Well, the cP of regular automotive engine oil is 3.23, so meaning it's 3 times more viscious or lubricative than water at 150C. A-freaking-mazing. While Pennzoil is only 3.05 times more viscous. This may not seem like much, but at the quantum level every little minute number counts. These two tests are probably the most important tests for which oil is best for your motor, however, Amsoil also has a few more tricks up its sleeves: - In the NOACK test (a test, using a NOACK machine, that shows how much an oil evaporates in high temperature service.) Amsoil wins. The more an oil evaporates the thicker and heavier it becomes, contributing to poor circulation, reduced fuel economy (drivetrain has to work harder), and increased oil consumption, wear and the biggie, emissions. Amsoil loses 5.44% while Pennzoil loses about 9.5% in weight. -In the Pour Point Test (a test that shows the lowest temperature at which a lubricant will still flow) amsoil seriously wins again. At -58F, or 14C it still can flow enough to start your motor. While name brand oils like Havoline (-27.4F) and Pennzoil (-34.6F) fall way behind. 20 degrees is the difference between being in the shade and being in the sun. -Amsoil protects against wear. Plain and simple. You hear commercials say that all the time, but what the hell does it really mean? Who knows? I DO! In the standard four-ball method (a test where they run the lubricant through a 4-ball bearing machine at 40kg of pressure at 150C (302*F) at 1800rpms for 1 hour and then measure the size of the scar on the ball) Amsoil's scar was only .45mm which is about a 1/100th of an inch. In comparison, Pennzoil's scar was 1.8mm, being the worst oil at this test. So in conclusion (I love using this literary device), if you don't use Amsoil, then you're doing a disservice to your car. Amsoil is King. The end. You can go on with your lives now. Thank you for your time.

09-12-2006, 01:31 PM	#8 (permalink)
Weasy2k 3.4L 10K RPM In the works Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,895 Thanks: 34 Thanked 80 Times in 66 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Royal Purple Sucks.... I still like Mobil 1....i may try this amsoil stuff tho...since i can be a dealer __________________ -Johnny @ Sea2Sky Tuning - www.sea2skytuning.com http://www.mr2.com/forums/sea2sky-tu...-out-sale.html

08-24-2007, 04:27 AM	#11 (permalink)
Gairloch Dreaming of apexes Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 4,848 Thanks: 125 Thanked 258 Times in 228 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	I know this is over a year late, but what do you base that on Sirc? __________________ "Inside the car, the world beyond the driver's immediate horizon ceases to exist. Alone with the solitude of his desire, survival sense numbed by the speed, he's outrun the mediocrity of the outside world, slipped the shackles it tries to clamp on us all. He is running free, chased only by a fear of failure, for failure is to risk ejection into the real world." ~Mark Hughes

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07-26-2006, 07:13 AM	#2 (permalink)
Raptor13x Legendary Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Farmington Hills, MI Posts: 3,987 Thanks: 7 Thanked 40 Times in 34 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	Who is supposed to be surprised? Amsoil rocks.

07-26-2006, 07:36 AM	#3 (permalink)
PHOENIX Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: On Hiatus....... Posts: 7,897 Thanks: 84 Thanked 257 Times in 197 Posts Blog Entries: 1 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (46/100% )	cliff notes: Sirc thinks Amsoil is good I use Quaker state synthentic since that is the only synthetic i can get out here and the oil they have is generic wallmart style brand.

07-26-2006, 05:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
Sirc Registered User Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 1,967 Thanks: 6 Thanked 7 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Sometimes he's in Japan, sometimes I see that he's in Korea, then sometimes I read that he's home in the good ol' USA.

09-12-2006, 03:37 PM	#9 (permalink)
osoRiceMR2 N/A foe Now. Join Date: May 2006 Location: Potomac Falls, VA Posts: 133 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Mobil 1 Syn 4 ever.

08-18-2008, 11:58 PM	#12 (permalink)
Servin Beams Owners Group Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 652 Thanks: 11 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Super late but I don't know why mobil 1 sucks it came in the top three in almost all of the tests. And it's alot cheaper than amsoil. Just my $.02 I'll stick to mobil 1.

08-21-2008, 09:57 AM	#13 (permalink)
toy-driver Getting there Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 265 Thanks: 3 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	Mobil 1 needs to be changed about once a month. Amsoil needs to be changed every 25,000 miles or one year. That's why. I don't trust Amsoil that much. So I change my oil every 10,000 miles because my car has 225,000 miles on it.

08-21-2008, 10:20 AM	#14 (permalink)
Servin Beams Owners Group Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: DFW, Texas Posts: 652 Thanks: 11 Thanked 40 Times in 29 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Once a Month?! Holy crap what kind of driving do you do that you drive 36,000 miles a year! I dont trust it either while it might not break down over time like most oils it still gets dirty. Im not running my car with 25k old oil, thats like taking a bath with the same water for a year: its just nasty.

08-23-2008, 02:35 AM	#15 (permalink)
toy-driver Getting there Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 265 Thanks: 3 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	I used to drive about 700 a week, I've cut back since then. Alot of people change their oil every 3 or 4 thousand miles. To get the 25K out of the oil you're to use the amsoil oil filters. They are apparently really good (and expensive). I just run Wix for now. By the way Amsoil isn't that much more than mobil 1.

09-02-2008, 07:54 PM	#17 (permalink)
lsgheero RAR! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 605 Thanks: 7 Thanked 27 Times in 27 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I just use castrol gtx used to use their high rpm oil but cant find it anymore so I changed to antisludge, but I change my oil monthly anyway so not sure it really matters much lol.

10-05-2008, 07:03 PM	#19 (permalink)
Old Coot Old,Wore Out and Sassy Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 19 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Here's a couple of links on both Amsoil and Mobil one,,,check the results Both are good oils but no one can honestly say One is Better than the Other,, Just some food for thought, guys Mobil 1 Test Results Amsoil Test Results Check these out, you might be surprised

10-13-2008, 02:04 AM	#20 (permalink)
tjmr2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 309 Thanks: 0 Thanked 48 Times in 45 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Sirc, could you explain how changing the oil once a month can be bad for a car?