Cold Start Valve for an 88NA

LordNikon · 04-18-2008, 11:03 PM

Well, my 2's been down for a few weeks now, and I think I have it figured out.
I think my Cold start injector went out, I can only get my 2 to start by shooting some B-12 into the intake. So I took out the CSI, placed it in a jar and tried to crank her over. Needless to say nothing came out of the injector. It seems pretty gunked up too. So I was wondering what kind of price you can get on one for me. I've checked with the local shops Advance, Autozone, NAPA, etc...the cheapest I can find one is for $179. Which is freaking rediculous.

The part # should be 23260-19095, or 23260-19075. I'm not sure what the difference between these two part numbers is but they are both listed as oem part #'s for an 88 mr2, and I specified in my search it was for the 4age NA.

Could this part going bad actually cause my 2 to not start? And at the price that most people are asking for this damn thing is there any way to repair/rebuild it?

te51levin · 04-19-2008, 07:56 PM

The correct part number for an '88-'89 NA is 23260-19095. 23260-19075 is for the SC. I am not surprised that the aftermarket catalogs did not differentiate, as there are usually some loose ends with them that make it hard to know what is what. If it turns out that you do need 23260-19095, it's $131.16. Even suggested retail is only $167.82. I think a lot of aftermarket suppliers like to overcharge on weird low-volume stuff like this, hoping that people won't think to check with the dealership.

You tested the CSI system, but you can isolate that thest to the CSI itself. Remove it from the manifold but keep it connected to the fuel rail. Then apply 12V battery power to the CSI (polarity does not matter) and have someone crank the engine. Obviously this is going to cause fuel to spray out of the CSI, so be sure it has somewhere safe to go, and make sure you have a fire extinguisher handy. If fuel comes out of the CSI, that means the CSI is doing its job. It is more likely that you need the cold start injector time switch than the cold start injector; the switches do fail every so often. That is 89462-30011 and your cost is $120.02.

4W4K3 · 04-19-2008, 08:20 PM

Not to take any business away from Lithia, but if you have the time you can send in your cold start injector to WitchHunter Performance and they'll re-seal it and clean it. I believe they only charge $18 per injector with a 2-3 day turn around.

te51levin · 04-19-2008, 08:28 PM

No worries. Witchhunter provides a great service, but if the CSI isn't working at all, I don't think a cleaning is going to fix it. Anyway, let us know how the test goes and we'll go from there. CSIs don't usually fail very often.

LordNikon · 04-20-2008, 06:33 PM

Thanks alot for the help guys. I will test it as soon as I get a chance.

LordNikon · 04-21-2008, 06:05 PM

Well, I went back to the car and checked the CSI. Now I'm not sure if this would make a difference or not, but since I'm working on the car myself, instead of having someone crank on the car I put the key to on and used the diagnostic box to short the fuel pump then checked the CSI. Fuel sprayed pretty well into the cup that I placed it into.
I have also used a multimeter to check the ohms comming to the CSI. I think I may have my MM set wrong, or the signal is really weak. I was getting a reading of .012ohms on several checks of the CSI, after tinkering around and trying to crank her over a few times I checked it again and got a couple readings of .050. Tired to crank her a few more times and the ohms went back down to .012.

So I'm pretty sure its the timer. I'm not to sure where this timer is.
Is there any further ways for me to check this timer?

Aaron could you let me know what the total would be with shipping to 76543.

LordNikon · 04-22-2008, 01:58 AM

Other than the timer going bad is there anything else I need to check or that I can check before I spend $120. Or is there any way to get her to start with out a working CSI? Is there a relay or something that could cause the rest of the system to at lest seem to work fine and the CSI timer not to?

te51levin · 04-22-2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordNikon

Fuel sprayed pretty well into the cup that I placed it into...<snip>...So I'm pretty sure its the timer. I'm not to sure where this timer is. Is there any further ways for me to check this timer?

Aaron could you let me know what the total would be with shipping to 76543.

Other than the timer going bad is there anything else I need to check or that I can check before I spend $120. Or is there any way to get her to start with out a working CSI? Is there a relay or something that could cause the rest of the system to at lest seem to work fine and the CSI timer not to?

If the CSI sprayed fuel, it's working as designed. The cold start injector time switch is located on the water housing over the trasnmission and is oriented vertically. If I understand things correctly, there will be continuity between the terminals at anything below 95 degrees Fahrenheit. You can check this by placing the switch in a pan of water on the kitchen stove and monitoring the temperature at which the circuit goes open (no continuity) with a candy thermometer. If you have an infrared thermometer you can probably get a close approximation by aiming it at the water neck as the engine warms up and recording the termperature at which the circuit goes open. I don't think there are any relays involved with this system...

Once started, how does the car run?

LordNikon · 04-23-2008, 11:12 PM

Once she fires up she runs great, but if I turn it off it won't start on her own I have to shoot some more carb cleaner or starter fluid into the intake. This includes after I let the car run long enough to warm up and the idle to drop down.

te51levin · 04-24-2008, 01:34 AM

That doesn't sound like a cold start injector problem to me, unless it is sprying when it's not supposed to. Unplug the CSI's connector and see if that improves the behavior any.

LordNikon · 04-27-2008, 01:25 PM

Well, I haven't been able to take the time switch out yet to check it for continuity, but I put the injector back in and made it spray manualy, then tried to start it, and it worked that way, the only prob. is I broke one of the bolts for the CSI so I have a vacume leak and she runs like crap, obviously. I picked up a bolt extractor kit today so I can get that straigtened out, replace the bolt and she how she runs. (make sure that's the only prob)
I found a guy on the other board that might have a couple spare CSI time switches laying around, so I'm gonna get those and see if they will work for me.

te51levin · 04-27-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordNikon

...if I turn it off it won't start on her own I have to shoot some more carb cleaner or starter fluid into the intake. This includes after I let the car run long enough to warm up and the idle to drop down.

At times like this the cold start injector system is not active, because the coolant temp is high enough that the time switch does not trigger the injector. So if you're having hot start problems as well, I would not place blame on the cold start injector system. I have a feeling you are chasing a problem that does not exist, and replacing parts that are working properly.

In other words, you're barking up the wrong tree. Leave the CSI system alone and try looking elsewhere for a solution.

LordNikon · 04-27-2008, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by te51levin

At times like this the cold start injector system is not active, because the coolant temp is high enough that the time switch does not trigger the injector. So if you're having hot start problems as well, I would not place blame on the cold start injector system. I have a feeling you are chasing a problem that does not exist, and replacing parts that are working properly.

In other words, you're barking up the wrong tree. Leave the CSI system alone and try looking elsewhere for a solution.

So what do you think it could be? If I make the CSI spray then try to start her it works, or if I use carb cleaner or starter fluid, etc. in the intake it starts fine.

Mornings down here in central Texas are still only between 40-60's, 70's on a hot day. And I thought it was stated the the CSI loses continuity at 95F or above? Maybe I understood that statement wrong.

te51levin · 04-28-2008, 11:55 AM

I think you may have insufficient fuel, but perhaps not due to the CSI system, since you still have problems when the coolant is warmer than 95F.

Have you checked fuel pressure? The pump may be getting lazy. The circuit opening relay could be at fault as well. Try shorting B+ and Fp in the diagnostic terminal and se if it starts when hot.

LordNikon · 04-28-2008, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by te51levin

I think you may have insufficient fuel, but perhaps not due to the CSI system, since you still have problems when the coolant is warmer than 95F.

Have you checked fuel pressure? The pump may be getting lazy. The circuit opening relay could be at fault as well. Try shorting B+ and Fp in the diagnostic terminal and se if it starts when hot.

I have checked the fuel pump using this method. Of course I thought the pump was bad and didn't have the line hooked up to the filter and dumped a bit of fuel on the ground. Since that worked I hooked the line back up the the filter and disconnected the line to the fuel rail (checking the pressure diff after the filter) There was no noticable diff in pressure. I have not tried to start the car while forcing the fuel pump to run, so I'll give that a shot and see what happens. I'll let you know how it goes.

The relay your refering to...that's the one in the fuse block next to the batt. right?

te51levin · 04-28-2008, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LordNikon

The relay your refering to...that's the one in the fuse block next to the batt. right?

You're thinking of the EFI main relay. The circuit opening relay is usually in the trunk, next to the ECU. Location varies a bit depending on year.

LordNikon · 04-29-2008, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by te51levin

You're thinking of the EFI main relay. The circuit opening relay is usually in the trunk, next to the ECU. Location varies a bit depending on year.

Ok, I found the circuit opening relay. It actualy mounts to the same mounting bracket as the ECU. Now is there any way to test the relay to see. I have a multi meter. Or can they test those at the local parts store?

te51levin · 04-30-2008, 09:40 PM

Short Bp and Fp and see if the car starts hot. If it does, then the circuit opening relay is a likely culrpit.

LordNikon · 06-05-2008, 11:07 PM

So it's been awhile since I posted on here. I got those parts in after dealing with some shipping issues. The parts got sent to my old address instead of my current address.

So I replaced the CSI time switch and after letting it crank for a few seconds and tapping the gas pedal a couple times she fired up. I get her to start every time with out any trouble now.

Of course in the mean time while I waited on the parts to show up, I started doing alot of other things I've been meaning to do. Well since I have no heat/AC or stereo (or dash for that matter) I started cutting out a bunch of the unused wireing harness from under the dash. At some point I must have cut a wrong wire cause now my flashers don't work. My turn signals were working until today. I'm not to sure what I screwed up. I also fried my gauge cluster, so now I need a new one of those too.

Damn this sucks!

On the plus side I've gotten most of the tar sound deading crap ripped out and relocated my ECU, cruise control, and fan box to inside the car behind my seat, and relocated the battery. And gotten a good portion of the car painted. Oh yeah I also fixed my dimmer switch for the gauge lights, and redid my push button start (I hid the button behind the fake button below the wipers) makes the area look alot cleaner.

04-18-2008, 11:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
LordNikon ProjectMadMR2 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ft. Hood TX Posts: 145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Cold Start Valve for an 88NA Well, my 2's been down for a few weeks now, and I think I have it figured out. I think my Cold start injector went out, I can only get my 2 to start by shooting some B-12 into the intake. So I took out the CSI, placed it in a jar and tried to crank her over. Needless to say nothing came out of the injector. It seems pretty gunked up too. So I was wondering what kind of price you can get on one for me. I've checked with the local shops Advance, Autozone, NAPA, etc...the cheapest I can find one is for $179. Which is freaking rediculous. The part # should be 23260-19095, or 23260-19075. I'm not sure what the difference between these two part numbers is but they are both listed as oem part #'s for an 88 mr2, and I specified in my search it was for the 4age NA. Could this part going bad actually cause my 2 to not start? And at the price that most people are asking for this damn thing is there any way to repair/rebuild it?

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04-19-2008, 07:56 PM	#2 (permalink)
te51levin Lithia Toyota Parts Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,921 Thanks: 33 Thanked 146 Times in 125 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (125/100% )	The correct part number for an '88-'89 NA is 23260-19095. 23260-19075 is for the SC. I am not surprised that the aftermarket catalogs did not differentiate, as there are usually some loose ends with them that make it hard to know what is what. If it turns out that you do need 23260-19095, it's $131.16. Even suggested retail is only $167.82. I think a lot of aftermarket suppliers like to overcharge on weird low-volume stuff like this, hoping that people won't think to check with the dealership. You tested the CSI system, but you can isolate that thest to the CSI itself. Remove it from the manifold but keep it connected to the fuel rail. Then apply 12V battery power to the CSI (polarity does not matter) and have someone crank the engine. Obviously this is going to cause fuel to spray out of the CSI, so be sure it has somewhere safe to go, and make sure you have a fire extinguisher handy. If fuel comes out of the CSI, that means the CSI is doing its job. It is more likely that you need the cold start injector time switch than the cold start injector; the switches do fail every so often. That is 89462-30011 and your cost is $120.02.

04-19-2008, 08:20 PM	#3 (permalink)
4W4K3 Some Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Texas Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Not to take any business away from Lithia, but if you have the time you can send in your cold start injector to WitchHunter Performance and they'll re-seal it and clean it. I believe they only charge $18 per injector with a 2-3 day turn around.

04-19-2008, 08:28 PM	#4 (permalink)
te51levin Lithia Toyota Parts Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,921 Thanks: 33 Thanked 146 Times in 125 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (125/100% )	No worries. Witchhunter provides a great service, but if the CSI isn't working at all, I don't think a cleaning is going to fix it. Anyway, let us know how the test goes and we'll go from there. CSIs don't usually fail very often.

04-20-2008, 06:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
LordNikon ProjectMadMR2 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ft. Hood TX Posts: 145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thanks alot for the help guys. I will test it as soon as I get a chance.

04-21-2008, 06:05 PM	#6 (permalink)
LordNikon ProjectMadMR2 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ft. Hood TX Posts: 145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Well, I went back to the car and checked the CSI. Now I'm not sure if this would make a difference or not, but since I'm working on the car myself, instead of having someone crank on the car I put the key to on and used the diagnostic box to short the fuel pump then checked the CSI. Fuel sprayed pretty well into the cup that I placed it into. I have also used a multimeter to check the ohms comming to the CSI. I think I may have my MM set wrong, or the signal is really weak. I was getting a reading of .012ohms on several checks of the CSI, after tinkering around and trying to crank her over a few times I checked it again and got a couple readings of .050. Tired to crank her a few more times and the ohms went back down to .012. So I'm pretty sure its the timer. I'm not to sure where this timer is. Is there any further ways for me to check this timer? Aaron could you let me know what the total would be with shipping to 76543.

04-22-2008, 01:58 AM	#7 (permalink)
LordNikon ProjectMadMR2 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ft. Hood TX Posts: 145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Other than the timer going bad is there anything else I need to check or that I can check before I spend $120. Or is there any way to get her to start with out a working CSI? Is there a relay or something that could cause the rest of the system to at lest seem to work fine and the CSI timer not to?

04-23-2008, 11:12 PM	#9 (permalink)
LordNikon ProjectMadMR2 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ft. Hood TX Posts: 145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Once she fires up she runs great, but if I turn it off it won't start on her own I have to shoot some more carb cleaner or starter fluid into the intake. This includes after I let the car run long enough to warm up and the idle to drop down.

04-24-2008, 01:34 AM	#10 (permalink)
te51levin Lithia Toyota Parts Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,921 Thanks: 33 Thanked 146 Times in 125 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (125/100% )	That doesn't sound like a cold start injector problem to me, unless it is sprying when it's not supposed to. Unplug the CSI's connector and see if that improves the behavior any.

04-27-2008, 01:25 PM	#11 (permalink)
LordNikon ProjectMadMR2 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ft. Hood TX Posts: 145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Well, I haven't been able to take the time switch out yet to check it for continuity, but I put the injector back in and made it spray manualy, then tried to start it, and it worked that way, the only prob. is I broke one of the bolts for the CSI so I have a vacume leak and she runs like crap, obviously. I picked up a bolt extractor kit today so I can get that straigtened out, replace the bolt and she how she runs. (make sure that's the only prob) I found a guy on the other board that might have a couple spare CSI time switches laying around, so I'm gonna get those and see if they will work for me.

04-28-2008, 11:55 AM	#14 (permalink)
te51levin Lithia Toyota Parts Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,921 Thanks: 33 Thanked 146 Times in 125 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (125/100% )	I think you may have insufficient fuel, but perhaps not due to the CSI system, since you still have problems when the coolant is warmer than 95F. Have you checked fuel pressure? The pump may be getting lazy. The circuit opening relay could be at fault as well. Try shorting B+ and Fp in the diagnostic terminal and se if it starts when hot.

04-30-2008, 09:40 PM	#18 (permalink)
te51levin Lithia Toyota Parts Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,921 Thanks: 33 Thanked 146 Times in 125 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (125/100% )	Short Bp and Fp and see if the car starts hot. If it does, then the circuit opening relay is a likely culrpit.

06-05-2008, 11:07 PM	#19 (permalink)
LordNikon ProjectMadMR2 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Ft. Hood TX Posts: 145 Thanks: 1 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	So it's been awhile since I posted on here. I got those parts in after dealing with some shipping issues. The parts got sent to my old address instead of my current address. So I replaced the CSI time switch and after letting it crank for a few seconds and tapping the gas pedal a couple times she fired up. I get her to start every time with out any trouble now. Of course in the mean time while I waited on the parts to show up, I started doing alot of other things I've been meaning to do. Well since I have no heat/AC or stereo (or dash for that matter) I started cutting out a bunch of the unused wireing harness from under the dash. At some point I must have cut a wrong wire cause now my flashers don't work. My turn signals were working until today. I'm not to sure what I screwed up. I also fried my gauge cluster, so now I need a new one of those too. Damn this sucks! On the plus side I've gotten most of the tar sound deading crap ripped out and relocated my ECU, cruise control, and fan box to inside the car behind my seat, and relocated the battery. And gotten a good portion of the car painted. Oh yeah I also fixed my dimmer switch for the gauge lights, and redid my push button start (I hid the button behind the fake button below the wipers) makes the area look alot cleaner.