Hydrogen On Demand

[yikes]

the teardown

http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...eapart0001.jpg

in the car
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...mmeter0002.jpg

one of the little test cells I use
http://i180.photobucket.com/albums/x...ontest0002.jpg

[VeilsideMR2]

wow thats really cool and interesting...

[Weasy2k]

That was what i was referring to as "wear"....have you seen your setup change color like that?

What do you mean by "stack" and "cell" so i am on the same page...I would consider a cell to have equal number of anode and cathod plates...am i right in thinking this?

Great info yikes keep it up! i need to make one that will run good enough for my 4.0L V8 that is going in the tacoma

Maybe fit one of these into the engine too
High Output Alternators For Toyota Applications

[yikes]

The color change happens to all new units. That is the Fe (iron) leaching out of the plate material. 304 stainless steel is the most common stainless available and is what I use. 316 and even better 316L is the preferred material for plates and tubes. They all contain iron but to lesser amounts. The leaching is handled in the "conditioning process" of the ss material before the actual use of the unit. You can just pour out the water and start again (and again and again) or you can reuse the water by pouring it through a coffee filter.
As to the definitions of cell and stack. A cell is the area between the plates or tubes. A stack is a collection of cells. Parallel cells are simply (P=plus or positive, M=minus or negative, N= neutral or no connection) P M P M P M (which is 5 cells, could be any number you choose). Series cells are normally used with neutral plates as:
P nnnnnn M (which is 7 cells, again could be any number). What I use is a combination of parellel and series as: PnnnnnnMnnnnnnPnnnnnnMnnnnnnPnnnnnnMnnnnnnP etc. Each neutral becomes bipolar in that on the surface of each neutral facing P, the plate is M, on the surface of each neutral facing M, the plate is P. Hydrogen comes off the M, oxygen comes off the P.
There will be more production in my setup as oppossed to parallel and even more production in a pulsed system or a rf system. But that is for later, not now.

[hosh]

Is their any advantage to the shape of the block off plates? You mentioned them facing the curved edges to the middle.

The advantage of pre-made is obvious and holes already located for easy alignment. Or in other words just plain convenient.

[yikes]

No advantage at all. The plates are positioned for ease of connection with the pos and neg straps. And using these plates is what makes this simple system,,,,, simple.

[hosh]

Sweet. Love the KISS method. I was curious because I can make my own plates and wanted to know. I may still use the cover plates though.

[yikes]

Just a little update. My car started "bucking" on the way home the other day. I was delighted. That means that I am now making enough H to cause me to go to the next step. yea.. The H is burning so fast at the spark that it is trying to stop the piston. My options are to reset ignition timing to 20 degrees AFTER TDC (which I cannot do as I am not producing enough H to run the car on) or simply reduce the concentration of NaOH in the water, which will lower the amps and will make less H and the problem will be gone. I am now at 6 lpm. So I will go back to 4 lpm. Until I get my next unit built. 80 plates.
I also need to hook a volt meter to the oxygen sensor while I drive to start collecting data so that I can hook a circuit like an effie to alter the signal.
I hope I am learning a lot from these tests.

[Weasy2k]

nice nice man things are looking good! Thanks for the info it will help me in making my first unit soon enough. I just want to make enough to help with fuel economy no need to run off the stuff thats for sure.

I have heard that under certain setups you have to run exhaust thought he unit to?? Heat it up or something? I heard its supposed to keep the level of H high but not require as many amps.

[hosh]

Couldn't you retard your timing by a lesser amount instead of going all out right off the bat.

[yikes]

Yes the exhaust can be plumbed to run through the booster, but now we're getting complicated. This booster is a simple design for a reason. Once you get your feet wet, your experiences will teach you where you want to go next.

As for retarding the timing, the "bucks" only happened at higher rpms, our system does not allow (as far as I know) that type of timing adjustment.

As my lab work is progressing nicely, there may be some new technical improvements in the future.

[hosh]

If you retard your base timing it will be retarded () across the board. That shouldn't be a problem on the low end.

I don't know just throwing out ideas. I am going to finish my MR2 and take it for a test drive by Monday. Then it will be on to tuning. Then I will be able to experiment with my own booster.

By the way, how are you measuring you production? I have access to all kinds of measuring devises and was debating a flow meter (yes i know how to compensate the reading to account for the differences in gasses) or using a beaker and stopwatch.

yikes - love your lab.

[Weasy2k]

Yikes have you thought about a piggyback to control that timing?

[yikes]

Originally Posted by hosh

If you retard your base timing it will be retarded () across the board. That shouldn't be a problem on the low end.

I don't know just throwing out ideas. I am going to finish my MR2 and take it for a test drive by Monday. Then it will be on to tuning. Then I will be able to experiment with my own booster.

By the way, how are you measuring you production? I have access to all kinds of measuring devises and was debating a flow meter (yes i know how to compensate the reading to account for the differences in gasses) or using a beaker and stopwatch.

yikes - love your lab.

I have found that the 4a is sensitive to timing adjustments, when the timing is not spot-on, I know it. I think you will also.

as far as measuring: take a 2 liter bottle, cut off the top, bend a 1/4" copper tube into a U shape, you will connect your booster output to this. Get a 1 liter bottle, measure in 100 ml and mark with a sharpie, keep doing that to the top. Fill the 2 liter bottle with water, invert the 1 liter bottle over the copper tube, when the gas flows in, the 1 liter bottle will raise. I start the stopwatch when it gets to the 100 ml line and stop when it gets to the 300 ml line. You are measuring production, not the individual gases. KISS


Weasy, yes I have thought the time is getting close to get one, but I simply do not have the time right now.


Now for the unexplained results of two recent trips. I have driven this mr2 for many years,,,I know this car. I know that this car gets 27 mpg.
For several months, I have driven 250 miles on a trip that I repeat often. I got 27 mpg. Then I added the booster and got 36 mpg. I have driven the trip many times and the mileage is consistant. Last week, I forgot to turn on the booster. Once I noticed it, I decided to leave it off for this trip. On that trip I got 35.9 mpg. Today, I made the trip again and got 36 mpg without turning on the booster. The booster is still in the car with water sitting in it,,so it is possible that some tiny amount of water is being pulled into the intake,,,but the water cannot possibly be causing this result. But something sure is. I am talking with some knowledgable people about this, so maybe I will have an answer shortly,,,but for now,,,I don't know what to say.

[MuMan]

Your totally crazy..you know that
But it's all good..
So you'd be pulling something like 80A constantly out of the alternator?..
How long do the plates last?

Who was that guy that claimed he perfected cold fusion, and wound up dead...better be careful

[yikes]

Originally Posted by MuMan

Your totally crazy..you know that
But it's all good..
So you'd be pulling something like 80A constantly out of the alternator?..
How long do the plates last?

Who was that guy that claimed he perfected cold fusion, and wound up dead...better be careful

I assume you are drunk.

[evilsperm]

@ yikes - I'm not trying to jack your thread just giving a bit more insight.

I don't wanna be the one to have to tell you all this but your not gonna notice a power increase at all what so ever, I have done this same type of build a few years back on my jeep wrangler. You will however notice a big difference your fuel consumption (around 3-5 miles more per gallon) As long as you have a BIG volume of hydrogen being produced and a pump good enough to suck it into the intake. As for the tank exploding lmao it would never happen unless you were producing so much you'd be able to sell it in vast quantities and in liquid form.. there isn't enough pressure being built up for it to even remotely explode or even catch fire unless you have put a flame directly to the bubble floating up. You can do this entire setup for under $30 by going to home depot. Oh and don't just put in water, you will also need to put in 2 table spoons of sulfuric acid (battery acid) this will help the electrons separate the hydrogen from the oxygen a hell of alot easier and produce more hydrogen. You would also have to change the water/acid mix every fuel up or two (never go 3+) or the water will be black as hell and not put out hydrogen any longer that will make an impact on doing anything. Anyone can google the schematic to make one with parts form home depot.
good luck and have fun with it =)

[MuMan]

Originally Posted by yikes

I assume you are drunk.

Do I sound drunk? hell no..well not right now anyway.
I'm just trying to get a handle on this. Like what advantages are to be had, other than cleaner combustion chambers and a cooler running engine. You could use a low temp thermostat and WI for that. I must admit I'm intrigued with this whole concept..but 5mpg isn't worth the effort.
So...educate me, does the alternator have a huge current draw all the time this is operational, and do the plates errode due to electrolysis over time?

I'm even more intregued as to what gave you the mileage increase when you drove it with the cell switched off...

[Weasy2k]

evilsperm,
I dont think he has any problems getting his unit to work as he has already made the thing so i dunno what your trying to say?

As for power INCREASE yes and no...its more like power recovery as you are also cleaning the engine with the more effective combustion....kinda like water injection.

Yikes,
Wow thats kinda wierd how you are hitting that kind of MPG with no H....very odd

[nutty1]

Originally Posted by Weasy2k

evilsperm,
I dont think he has any problems getting his unit to work as he has already made the thing so i dunno what your trying to say?

As for power INCREASE yes and no...its more like power recovery as you are also cleaning the engine with the more effective combustion....kinda like water injection.

Yikes,
Wow thats kinda wierd how you are hitting that kind of MPG with no H....very odd

what happens is that the water is charged, kinda like a battery so you ..esentially have voltage and current running within the electrolyte and its still bubbling inside even without electricty added to it...it should run like that until it runs out of electricity, then all you gotta do is apply electricity to it again to start the cycle again.

Capture water from the exhaust and use it to refuel it..u get more MPG ..


Yike's ...i just started getting into this a few days ago..alot of stuff on youtube about it. I hope to get one built in a few days.

YouTube - Water as Fuel

Water for Fuel