New Member with a perplexing problem

EngineerGuy · 03-10-2008, 06:04 PM

I'm a new member to this site after picking up an 85 MR2 about 2 months ago. I've used some of the information on here to track down and fix my headlight switch, wiper switch and dash board illumination problem. Now I've run into an issue that has me absolutely baffled.

This first arose after being stuck in traffic for 2 hours on the NJ Turnpike, and has not gone away since. I seem to have an overheating issue, but the coolant gauge sits nicely in the middle of the normal range and doesn't fulctuate at all oncce warm. Once the engine warms up I have a ragged idle around 400-500rpm and the engine seems likes it wants to stall, but doesn't. What alarms me it the temperature of the valve covers, I opened the engine compartment and stupidly touched one of them after a 15 minute drive and ended up with a rather nasty bilster/2nd degree burn for my trouble. This seems way out of what I would call ordinary, I seem to have an oil temp problem.

I rently had the front crank seal replaced to correct a leak that was ignored by the previous owner. I've also meticulously bled the cooling system but won't rule out air-entrapment. I haven't done a compression check yet, but there is no sign of cross contamination between the oil and cooling systems.

I would appreciate anyone's insight on this problem, or even a place to start looking. As soon as I get the equipment I'll be doing a compression check to see if I have to do a ******* head gasket job or a valve job.

I don't mind some tear down and re-build work, I'm an SCCA tech inspector and this MR2 is destined to be an ITA then possibbly EP race car...if I'm at the track that much I might as well play.

Thanks again for the awesome website and we'll see if I can get this figured out

o6spdracer · 03-10-2008, 08:04 PM

Welcome. Did you pressure test your coolant system and check your temp guage sensor? I'm having similar issues with my MKII. Temp gauge fluxuates and I have to replace some heater and water hoses.

EngineerGuy · 03-10-2008, 08:55 PM

I've checked and I have no coolant leaks. I also have good pressure in the cooling system. I wish I had a fluctuating temp. gauge, but it always holds steady right in teh middle of the dial. The oil temp is what's really concerning me... those valve covers can't get that hot unless the oil temp is way too hot, and I wish I knew what was causing it.

skeksis · 03-10-2008, 10:44 PM

hey - don't mean to change the topic too far, but I'm curious what it cost you to get that front seal replaced? my mr2 (87) has that leak... and after changing just about everything else, and posting on the board, I think it must be that crank seal. not certain if I'm able to take care of it myself, so starting to inquire about having a mechanic do it... wish I had some wisdom for your problem, but not today.

EngineerGuy · 03-10-2008, 11:11 PM

After tax it ended up costing me $485, including having the timing belt done at the same time

Timon · 03-10-2008, 11:33 PM

You wouldn't happen to have an oil temp gauge would you? My '87 has one and it holds steady about up 3/4 the way up when on the throttle and about half way when not. Have you tried an oil change at all (you probably have but I'm just throwing it out there)? Synthetic-blend seems to work great for me.

skeksis · 03-10-2008, 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngineerGuy

After tax it ended up costing me $485, including having the timing belt done at the same time

ouch... I guess that's about what I figured/feared. may do a little more reseach, see how tricky it'd really be. man, I'm cheap. thanks.

EngineerGuy · 03-11-2008, 05:26 PM

I don't have an oil temp. gauge, it seems like you are describing the oil pressure gauge. I have the correct oil pressure readings at idle and while on the throttle. It's also had a fresh dose of Mobil 1 Synthetic and a new filter put in 3 weeks ago, oil level also looks good.

If you can find someone to do the crank seal and timing belt for under $500 I would go for it. I usually do all of the work myself, but the front crank seal is inside the oil pump which you have to pull the crank pulley and a bunch of other stuff just to get to.

After a 20 minute drive could someone check and see how hot their valve covers are (without burning yourself)? It just seems odd to me that mine are getting that hot, but I don't know if that's "normal."

Timon · 03-11-2008, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EngineerGuy

I don't have an oil temp. gauge, it seems like you are describing the oil pressure gauge. I have the correct oil pressure readings at idle and while on the throttle. It's also had a fresh dose of Mobil 1 Synthetic and a new filter put in 3 weeks ago, oil level also looks good.

If you can find someone to do the crank seal and timing belt for under $500 I would go for it. I usually do all of the work myself, but the front crank seal is inside the oil pump which you have to pull the crank pulley and a bunch of other stuff just to get to.

After a 20 minute drive could someone check and see how hot their valve covers are (without burning yourself)? It just seems odd to me that mine are getting that hot, but I don't know if that's "normal."

Yeah... about the oil gauge lol... I noticed when I went out to my car the morning after posting that and saw the L - H, standing for Low to High pressure. I just got the car and didn't pay that much attention to the gauge itself until your problem arose and made me look into my own vehicle.

Also, I thought you said you had the front crank seal replaced to correct a leak from the P/O?

Anyway, I'll check the valve covers tomorrow when I get to school (it's about a 20 minute drive) and report back if no one else has by then.

EngineerGuy · 03-12-2008, 01:29 AM

I definitely had to have the front crank seal replaced, I was belching about 1/2 quart out in a 40 mile drive.

I'd really appreciate the report on the valve cover temp., I never thought to check it in the first place so I have nothing to compare it to.

It seems like you've had your MR2 as long as I have...and I hope you're enjoying it as much as I am. Well, I do enjoy working on my cars a lot, but I think I'm at the point that I hope you're enjoying yours more.

Timon · 03-12-2008, 06:55 AM

I had to go get gas, so I checked it earlier than originally planned.

I drove the car for about 10 minutes, let it idle for about 10, and then drove another 5. Totaling 25 minutes of run time.

I got a thermostat to test the temperature in hopes of not burning myself as you did, but while holding it onto the Valve Cover I accidentally touched it and noticed it was warm to the touch, but no where near the point of burning. At this point I figured I had the information you were looking for and did not get an actual temperature reading from it.

You may wanna check the coolant lines to be sure there isn't a clog somewhere preventing the oil from circulating. I'm not sure if this helps but with the MR2 MKIs the oil goes from cylinders 1 through 4, with 4 being the last. This means the last cylinder is most likely much hotter than the 1st one (also causes the 4th exhaust header to crack from what I've heard). I checked entire Valve cover and it all seemed about the same temp.

As for the MR2, yes I believe I'm enjoying mine much more since it seems to be in pristine mechanical condition. My only complaint is the new drive belts, which squeak at start up - but that is slowly going away as the belts wear in more. Hopefully you can get that coolant problem fixed - at least that is what seems to be the problem. Let us know the more you get, and if you need anything: holler.

EngineerGuy · 03-13-2008, 12:46 PM

Based on your valve cover temp I definitely have a problem. I just picked up a timing light and compression tester so I'll check the timing and compression tonight and then move on from there.

Timon · 03-13-2008, 12:57 PM

What did that run ya lol?

Let us know what you run into.

EngineerGuy · 03-15-2008, 04:30 PM

Well, I've completely drained the cooling system and replacecd the thermostat, coolant temp. sensor and water pump. I spent about 2 hours making sure the cooling system was bled when I felled it back up and then took it for a 5 minute drive. Same problem, temp. gauge said that everything was fine, but the valve covers and the top of the motor were very hot again.

I also did a compression check this afternoon and got the following numbers:

Cyl. 1: 145
Cyl. 2: 155
Cyl. 3: 150
Cyl. 4: 145

These don't seem too bad to me, but I could be mistaken. Once I got home I opened the oil fill cap while the engine was still hot, I get a good bit of oil smelling vapor (quite visible) coming out of the fill hole in the valve cover.

I'll try to check the timing tomorrow, I've been at it for 7 hours today and I think I need a beer (or two)

The timing light, compression tester and a really nicec vacuum pump setup cost me a total of $105 at Harbor Freight, you can's beat their pricces on stuff you're going to use one every 3 years

Thanks for all your help and I'll keep you posted on anything new that I figure out

03-10-2008, 06:04 PM	#1 (permalink)
EngineerGuy Mech. Engineer/SCCA Tech Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bensalem, PA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	New Member with a perplexing problem I'm a new member to this site after picking up an 85 MR2 about 2 months ago. I've used some of the information on here to track down and fix my headlight switch, wiper switch and dash board illumination problem. Now I've run into an issue that has me absolutely baffled. This first arose after being stuck in traffic for 2 hours on the NJ Turnpike, and has not gone away since. I seem to have an overheating issue, but the coolant gauge sits nicely in the middle of the normal range and doesn't fulctuate at all oncce warm. Once the engine warms up I have a ragged idle around 400-500rpm and the engine seems likes it wants to stall, but doesn't. What alarms me it the temperature of the valve covers, I opened the engine compartment and stupidly touched one of them after a 15 minute drive and ended up with a rather nasty bilster/2nd degree burn for my trouble. This seems way out of what I would call ordinary, I seem to have an oil temp problem. I rently had the front crank seal replaced to correct a leak that was ignored by the previous owner. I've also meticulously bled the cooling system but won't rule out air-entrapment. I haven't done a compression check yet, but there is no sign of cross contamination between the oil and cooling systems. I would appreciate anyone's insight on this problem, or even a place to start looking. As soon as I get the equipment I'll be doing a compression check to see if I have to do a ******* head gasket job or a valve job. I don't mind some tear down and re-build work, I'm an SCCA tech inspector and this MR2 is destined to be an ITA then possibbly EP race car...if I'm at the track that much I might as well play. Thanks again for the awesome website and we'll see if I can get this figured out

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03-10-2008, 08:04 PM	#2 (permalink)
o6spdracer Nothing Clever Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 2,187 Thanks: 1 Thanked 112 Times in 107 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Welcome. Did you pressure test your coolant system and check your temp guage sensor? I'm having similar issues with my MKII. Temp gauge fluxuates and I have to replace some heater and water hoses.

03-10-2008, 08:55 PM	#3 (permalink)
EngineerGuy Mech. Engineer/SCCA Tech Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bensalem, PA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I've checked and I have no coolant leaks. I also have good pressure in the cooling system. I wish I had a fluctuating temp. gauge, but it always holds steady right in teh middle of the dial. The oil temp is what's really concerning me... those valve covers can't get that hot unless the oil temp is way too hot, and I wish I knew what was causing it.

03-10-2008, 10:44 PM	#4 (permalink)
skeksis No Skills Join Date: May 2007 Location: Phx, AZ Posts: 34 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	hey - don't mean to change the topic too far, but I'm curious what it cost you to get that front seal replaced? my mr2 (87) has that leak... and after changing just about everything else, and posting on the board, I think it must be that crank seal. not certain if I'm able to take care of it myself, so starting to inquire about having a mechanic do it... wish I had some wisdom for your problem, but not today.

03-10-2008, 11:11 PM	#5 (permalink)
EngineerGuy Mech. Engineer/SCCA Tech Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bensalem, PA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	After tax it ended up costing me $485, including having the timing belt done at the same time

03-10-2008, 11:33 PM	#6 (permalink)
Timon MR2 MKI AW11 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 669 Thanks: 13 Thanked 42 Times in 37 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	You wouldn't happen to have an oil temp gauge would you? My '87 has one and it holds steady about up 3/4 the way up when on the throttle and about half way when not. Have you tried an oil change at all (you probably have but I'm just throwing it out there)? Synthetic-blend seems to work great for me.

03-11-2008, 05:26 PM	#8 (permalink)
EngineerGuy Mech. Engineer/SCCA Tech Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bensalem, PA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I don't have an oil temp. gauge, it seems like you are describing the oil pressure gauge. I have the correct oil pressure readings at idle and while on the throttle. It's also had a fresh dose of Mobil 1 Synthetic and a new filter put in 3 weeks ago, oil level also looks good. If you can find someone to do the crank seal and timing belt for under $500 I would go for it. I usually do all of the work myself, but the front crank seal is inside the oil pump which you have to pull the crank pulley and a bunch of other stuff just to get to. After a 20 minute drive could someone check and see how hot their valve covers are (without burning yourself)? It just seems odd to me that mine are getting that hot, but I don't know if that's "normal."

03-12-2008, 01:29 AM	#10 (permalink)
EngineerGuy Mech. Engineer/SCCA Tech Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bensalem, PA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I definitely had to have the front crank seal replaced, I was belching about 1/2 quart out in a 40 mile drive. I'd really appreciate the report on the valve cover temp., I never thought to check it in the first place so I have nothing to compare it to. It seems like you've had your MR2 as long as I have...and I hope you're enjoying it as much as I am. Well, I do enjoy working on my cars a lot, but I think I'm at the point that I hope you're enjoying yours more.

03-12-2008, 06:55 AM	#11 (permalink)
Timon MR2 MKI AW11 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 669 Thanks: 13 Thanked 42 Times in 37 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I had to go get gas, so I checked it earlier than originally planned. I drove the car for about 10 minutes, let it idle for about 10, and then drove another 5. Totaling 25 minutes of run time. I got a thermostat to test the temperature in hopes of not burning myself as you did, but while holding it onto the Valve Cover I accidentally touched it and noticed it was warm to the touch, but no where near the point of burning. At this point I figured I had the information you were looking for and did not get an actual temperature reading from it. You may wanna check the coolant lines to be sure there isn't a clog somewhere preventing the oil from circulating. I'm not sure if this helps but with the MR2 MKIs the oil goes from cylinders 1 through 4, with 4 being the last. This means the last cylinder is most likely much hotter than the 1st one (also causes the 4th exhaust header to crack from what I've heard). I checked entire Valve cover and it all seemed about the same temp. As for the MR2, yes I believe I'm enjoying mine much more since it seems to be in pristine mechanical condition. My only complaint is the new drive belts, which squeak at start up - but that is slowly going away as the belts wear in more. Hopefully you can get that coolant problem fixed - at least that is what seems to be the problem. Let us know the more you get, and if you need anything: holler.

03-13-2008, 12:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
EngineerGuy Mech. Engineer/SCCA Tech Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bensalem, PA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Based on your valve cover temp I definitely have a problem. I just picked up a timing light and compression tester so I'll check the timing and compression tonight and then move on from there.

03-13-2008, 12:57 PM	#13 (permalink)
Timon MR2 MKI AW11 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Utah Posts: 669 Thanks: 13 Thanked 42 Times in 37 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	What did that run ya lol? Let us know what you run into.

03-15-2008, 04:30 PM	#14 (permalink)
EngineerGuy Mech. Engineer/SCCA Tech Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Bensalem, PA Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Well, I've completely drained the cooling system and replacecd the thermostat, coolant temp. sensor and water pump. I spent about 2 hours making sure the cooling system was bled when I felled it back up and then took it for a 5 minute drive. Same problem, temp. gauge said that everything was fine, but the valve covers and the top of the motor were very hot again. I also did a compression check this afternoon and got the following numbers: Cyl. 1: 145 Cyl. 2: 155 Cyl. 3: 150 Cyl. 4: 145 These don't seem too bad to me, but I could be mistaken. Once I got home I opened the oil fill cap while the engine was still hot, I get a good bit of oil smelling vapor (quite visible) coming out of the fill hole in the valve cover. I'll try to check the timing tomorrow, I've been at it for 7 hours today and I think I need a beer (or two) The timing light, compression tester and a really nicec vacuum pump setup cost me a total of $105 at Harbor Freight, you can's beat their pricces on stuff you're going to use one every 3 years Thanks for all your help and I'll keep you posted on anything new that I figure out