another day, another problem

[86tymr2]

anyone have a answer to my smoke question? i tested the compression and got 150 across all four, put a couple squirts of atf in and it bumped it up to 160...so my rings and valves are not to bad?

[HoLun]

possibly the valve seals are bad

[328FTW]

Valve guides maybe, does the smoke get worse when revving for extended periods? sometimes if the head is topping up with oil with worn guides it can get worse as the car revs out over an extended period like a long straight. It is not definitive but that is what my 4agze used to do.

[86tymr2]

yeah i was thinking valve guides or seals...it is a 23 year old car and i dont know what gaskets and seals have been changed. is there anyway to test the guides and seals before i start taking it apart? the smoke seems to happen randomly sometimes when first startup and then it will be fine for a while and sometimes it wont smoke until i get on it at about 3k rpm, if i just cruise at low rpm it wont smoke to much...and then sometimes it wont smoke at all when im reving it or if im getting on it. it seems like my oil burning up somewhere though because i filled it up most of the way and its gone down some, oh and the oil smells kind of like gas

[HoLun]

Originally Posted by 86tymr2

yeah i was thinking valve guides or seals...it is a 23 year old car and i dont know what gaskets and seals have been changed. is there anyway to test the guides and seals before i start taking it apart? the smoke seems to happen randomly sometimes when first startup and then it will be fine for a while and sometimes it wont smoke until i get on it at about 3k rpm, if i just cruise at low rpm it wont smoke to much...and then sometimes it wont smoke at all when im reving it or if im getting on it. it seems like my oil burning up somewhere though because i filled it up most of the way and its gone down some, oh and the oil smells kind of like gas

sure theres ways to test guide wear, it involves taking the head apart and check the play with a dial indicator.

[86tymr2]

yeah thats what i thought..but how about the seals? my dad told me they would show in a compression check if they were bad but no?

[HoLun]

Originally Posted by 86tymr2

yeah thats what i thought..but how about the seals? my dad told me they would show in a compression check if they were bad but no?

nope, compression test is not going to tell if the valve seals are bad, those seals are there to keep oil from going into the intake/exhaust stream, a compression is not going to be able to tell if the seal are not sealing.

I can tell you now, after 20+ years, those seals are toast. rubber parts doesn't just age by use, it ages and rot by just sitting there.

[randomxzero]

damn so my valve seals are super bad so much oil in the throttle body :/
good thing im getting my head rebuilt..

[HoLun]

Originally Posted by randomxzero

damn so my valve seals are super bad so much oil in the throttle body :/
good thing im getting my head rebuilt..

no oil in the throttle body can be coming from the pcv system, when you piston ring is worn so badly that it have so much blow by, pressurizing inside of the engine and focing oil vapor thru the pcv system and into the throttle body.

[randomxzero]

but if my piston rings are worn so bad wouldnt i have smoke coming out of my exhaust??
because that is what was happening to my civic..

[HoLun]

it can still seal against too much oil going going into the combustion chamber and not smoke but not enough to seal against the how many thousand PSI of pressure during the combustion storke, causing excessive combustion gas to go pass the rings and into the engine and pressurize it.

if it smoke it all condition, the engine is due for a complete overhaul.

[86tymr2]

so i decided its probley time for new gaskets so im going to be doing every gasket in the head and that should be done as soon as i recieve them...hopefully my valves are good. im also going to be doing a repaint as soon as the weather gets better so im getting rid of the shiesty bondo work that was done before on passenger side quarter panel and front fender as it was cracked and i could chip it off...im guessing because whoever did it didnt go down to bare metal when putting the body filler on and made it thicker than it needed to be

[86tymr2]

okay so today i got the manifolds and head off it has no carbon build up and the piston walls are smooth with no ridges and still have the crosshatches which is pretty good and valves all look good! im still waiting for the kit and was wondering if i can reuse the head bolts? im going to heli coil the stripped distributor bolt while its out also

[HoLun]

Originally Posted by 86tymr2

okay so today i got the manifolds and head off it has no carbon build up and the piston walls are smooth with no ridges and still have the crosshatches which is pretty good and valves all look good! im still waiting for the kit and was wondering if i can reuse the head bolts? im going to heli coil the stripped distributor bolt while its out also

you cant tell if the valves looks good until you have remove them from the head, I bet the valve seats face looks like craters. usually its not normal to have no carbon deposit unless its newly rebuild/clean off recently, you have water going into the combustion chamber, and got steam cleaned inside during combustion stroke. is every cylinder clean with no carbon? or just 1 or 2? look at the head and block carefully and see if you can sport cracks.
I am assuming this engine is a 20+year old original

you can reuse head bolts, but not recommended. weakened head bolts can cause early head gasket failure.

[86tymr2]

thats what im thinking it was reciently rebuilt all the cylinders look the same and same with the valves they look like maybe 20-30k on them thats wierd though because the injector seals before i replaced them were broken and hard...i got the gaskets today so ill have to rent a valve spring compressor and then ill reseat my valves and start the put together back...would you reccomend that i change my oil afterwards or would it still be fine?

[HoLun]

Originally Posted by 86tymr2

thats what im thinking it was reciently rebuilt all the cylinders look the same and same with the valves they look like maybe 20-30k on them thats wierd though because the injector seals before i replaced them were broken and hard...i got the gaskets today so ill have to rent a valve spring compressor and then ill reseat my valves and start the put together back...would you reccomend that i change my oil afterwards or would it still be fine?

I'd change the oil every time a major repair of the engine is performed, IE. head removal, just to be safe and dump out the oil that might have dirt, girt, pieces of gasket, nuts and bolt(lol) that might have fallen during the repair.

[86tymr2]

okay ill do that is the crush washer on the oil pan something i can find at a parts store?

[HoLun]

Originally Posted by 86tymr2

okay ill do that is the crush washer on the oil pan something i can find at a parts store?

yes, they have a whole bunch of different ones to chose, rubber on washer, fiber gasket, copper washer type and aluminum washer types.

[86tymr2]

bad news, turns out my valve guides are bad...or atleast i was told if the valve moves at all when you try wiggling it thats bad valve guides. so im looking for a machine shop thats local and the closest one is like 100 miles away or something so ill have to send it out and they cant give me a quote they said it is what it is

[HoLun]

Originally Posted by 86tymr2

bad news, turns out my valve guides are bad...or atleast i was told if the valve moves at all when you try wiggling it thats bad valve guides. so im looking for a machine shop thats local and the closest one is like 100 miles away or something so ill have to send it out and they cant give me a quote they said it is what it is

check BGB for specs on valve guide clearance, the only time it doesnt move is when its forced in with 0 clearance, use a dial indicator and check for how much play it has. it has to have some play or else when it reach operating temps the valves will cease into the guide from metal expansion.