IT LIVES!!!!!!!!! kind've

M.Bailey · 02-02-2009, 01:21 AM

After a few actually quite a number of delays I finally started my duece today the freshly redone 88 SC did run but only for a short time. when we started it it would instalntly rev to about 3500 RPM and shut it self off. but I do still have quite a number of air leaks which I think might be the problem but just hearing it run just gives me a boost of conifidence and drive to get everything else done so I can drive it. that list containing license and registration, tires, wheels, more gas, brakes , put the seats back in, put the panals back on the bottom of the car, put the exhaust on, and make a new shifter knob. on top of going to highschool, maintaining a job and a girlfriend but I am still way stoked thanks for all of the help and advice.

randomxzero · 02-02-2009, 01:27 AM

man glad to hear another 2 is up!!...
im still working on mine but ya i know what you mean by that boost of confidence!!! i swapped my tranny first time doing it and it worked!!..
CONGRATS MAN!!

Jackstand Queen · 02-03-2009, 10:33 AM

Mine's been up on jackstands since last Xmas. There was a vacuum leak . . . then the snowball started getting bigger and bigger until finally it was the size of a Solar System!

I think you know what I'm talking about . . . . lol.

Snowballing for me was finding slop in the SC rotor bearing. Meaning I have bought a replacement and am having mounts fabricated on it in a shop.
Deciding to swap in a N.A. throttle body. Boring out the J-pipe.
Deciding to Mod. the intake opening inside the side vent.
Finding the SC mount loose, plus the mounting bolts that could have been longer.
Finding massive leaks in the water alcohol injection plumbing.
Deciding to weld in a proper engine bay latch, and dump the hood pins.

Don't worry plenty of time to get our rigs ready for the Pac Norwest Mr2 Meet.

About that 3500 RPM idle . . . is the grey gadget with the electrical connection to it on the rear side of the TB . . . is it pointed more toward the rear of the car?

If so, that could make the idle high and the warm-up cycle high. But otherwise, I think your first guess . . . vacuum leak . . . is the best so far.

Kevin mr2 1985 · 02-03-2009, 01:17 PM

dude nice u got it running all i got left to do is put the rebuilt harness on, vacuum hoses, throttle cable mount, some cooling problems, and etc. you know what never mind i wont be done for a whlie lol!

M.Bailey · 02-09-2009, 12:50 AM

I didnt know that the two toned MR2s are rare. and I have lots of pictures on my jump drive but it is at school at the moment so pictures will have to wait until tomorrow if I can find time then. and for an update on the duece we fixed all of the air leakes and put the exhaust back on but it still does the same thing but now if you keep the throttle moving you can keep it running and then if you let off it will die, so just to some it up it starts revs to about 3500 and then wants to die but if you play with it wont and it will not idle. if any one could shed some light that would be great.

Jackstand Queen · 02-09-2009, 01:48 AM

Yeah my SC has run like butt more times than I can remember. So, I hope my experience helps.

First, pull the codes off the ECU, there's a sticky on how to do that in this website. Its old school, you just count number of blinks on the check engine light.

The most likely suspects are your AFM, TPS, ABV, and temperature sensors.

Really look for corroded terminals on the AFM, TPS and sensors first. You do live in the Pacific NW afterall!

The ABV air by pass valve hanging off the J shaped pipe underneath the TB: unless you have cleaned it already, it is probably completely gunked up with oil, and gummy residue. It allows the car to idle while the SC is not engaged. Yank yours off and use brake cleaner on its guts. Oh, and make sure it's VSV, and vacuum lines are square with the vacuum diagram under the engine lid. It can be tested if you have a vacuum gauge. If it doesn't work, you might consider replacing with a Bosch ABV as I have. A move I'm glad I made.

The Bosch ABV only cost about $60. shipped. There is some fabbing involved, but not hard at all to do.

mr2tim · 02-12-2009, 11:33 AM

Not to discount Jackstands possible issues and points to ponder, from your discription it sounds as if the car is starving for fuel.

Quite often the fuel pressure is developed only enuff to start the car and idle for a short time. When demand is put on the fuel delivery system the clogged fuel pump strainer, clogged fuel filter or weak pump cannot meet the demand and the car is starved for fuel stutters and oftens dies right out.

I would respectively suggest you address these 3 fuel items to confirm your car has the fuel being delivered that it needs in the first place. Once this assumption is made/confirmed then continue to troubleshoot the systems for a mechanical or electrical problem/malfunction.

By starting with the basics you will not waste time and efforts and get frustrated with no progress towards a solution.

The electrical system, as a rule, will not produce the symptoms you discribe. The are a go or no go senario and not a dying off problem.

I give you this advice as a 19 year owner of 6 different Mark 1 MR2's I'm not a mechanic by trade but with sanctioned racing as a hobby I've had to learn alot or stay at home.

Good luck, keep at it, you'll win the "Car Wars"!!

mr2tim
South Florida

Jackstand Queen · 02-12-2009, 12:11 PM

Yeah, along the lines of Mr2Tim's post . . . sometimes those metal fuel lines near the forward firewall get bent or pinched when you pull out the gas tank.

I recall you put in a new pump, and doubltless a new fuel filter too.

To get a fuel pressure reading at the fuel rail: I drilled a hole lengthways, in a bolt that screwed into the banjo bolt hole, that the start injector uses in the fuel rail. Use a grade I body type bolt, the metal is softer for drilling. From this, I was able to pull a fuel pressure reading at the fuel rail.

M.Bailey · 02-13-2009, 10:28 AM

I will have to try that and the fuel pump and filter are new and there are no lines pinched I checked that already is it possible that a large vacuum leak could cause this?

Jackstand Queen · 02-13-2009, 12:42 PM

Vacuum leaks doing you dirty? Hell yes they could!

Pull your IC, stand on end, fill with water (leak test it). You might want to fill it with foamy engine cleaner to clean it out and improve its cooling efficiency, while its out.

I have a doctor's stethyscope that I use to localize engine noises.

I've found a 3 foot long thin walled aluminum tube about 1/2" in diameter seems to work even better for some noises. Especially vacuum leaks.

Brake Cleaner spray will cause an engine's idle to change, if sprayed around a good size leak.

You are so close to getting her running good .. . . I can almost smell the "Win" in the air.

Kevin mr2 1985 · 02-13-2009, 01:16 PM

lol the win... im getting my harness on tuesday of next week i hope to get it running next week. but mine is a 1994 4agze so there were a whole bunch of conversion ****.

Jackstand Queen · 02-14-2009, 12:59 PM

O.K. I got my second SC14 back from the shop yesterday. With the intake mods I'm doing it ought to rock better than before.

Also my old SC14 was clicking loudly due to shot bearings. I suspect that it was triggering my knock sensor and causing the ECU to dumb down the timing.

I got the Gas Select Switch wiring done, so I think the timing will change for the better for being able to select "premium" gas.

I'm just a workday or two away from being back on the road. Bad news for Honda Owners.

M.Bailey · 02-17-2009, 11:32 PM

I have tried everything that you guys have mentioned and it just runs like crap it doesnt idle and it doesnt even run smooth at like 3000rpm and i dont know were else to look. so far everything has checked out good mechanically like cam timing and such and I have tested everything that i know how to test and its all good. I'm totally lost and frusterated

Jackstand Queen · 02-18-2009, 08:59 AM

So you live in the Village of the Damned too? Seems that keeping these boosted 20 year old relics running is problematic.

Let's try some more basic diagnostics.

Have you done the code check on the ECU?

Have you tested your spark by observing how big a gap it will jump and the color of the spark?

Have you tested your ABV?

Have you compared your vacuum line placement to the diagram under the engine lid?

There are a bunch of relays on the driver's side of the Ebay, and the SC relay, and ciruit open relay in the trunk. Have you tested them?

Does the exhaust gas smell like gas?

Does it run really weakly, like slow to rev up even in idle? Does it miss, sputter, knock, shudder, wheeze, etc.

Give us some more details on how it sounds, feels, etc. Make a list of everything you've tested and you're certain is correct.

You need the patience of an old man to work through these SC Mk I problems.

02-02-2009, 01:21 AM	#1 (permalink)
M.Bailey wrenching skills Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 118 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	IT LIVES!!!!!!!!! kind've After a few actually quite a number of delays I finally started my duece today the freshly redone 88 SC did run but only for a short time. when we started it it would instalntly rev to about 3500 RPM and shut it self off. but I do still have quite a number of air leaks which I think might be the problem but just hearing it run just gives me a boost of conifidence and drive to get everything else done so I can drive it. that list containing license and registration, tires, wheels, more gas, brakes , put the seats back in, put the panals back on the bottom of the car, put the exhaust on, and make a new shifter knob. on top of going to highschool, maintaining a job and a girlfriend but I am still way stoked thanks for all of the help and advice.

02-03-2009, 10:33 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Mine's been up on jackstands since last Xmas. There was a vacuum leak . . . then the snowball started getting bigger and bigger until finally it was the size of a Solar System! I think you know what I'm talking about . . . . lol. Snowballing for me was finding slop in the SC rotor bearing. Meaning I have bought a replacement and am having mounts fabricated on it in a shop. Deciding to swap in a N.A. throttle body. Boring out the J-pipe. Deciding to Mod. the intake opening inside the side vent. Finding the SC mount loose, plus the mounting bolts that could have been longer. Finding massive leaks in the water alcohol injection plumbing. Deciding to weld in a proper engine bay latch, and dump the hood pins. Don't worry plenty of time to get our rigs ready for the Pac Norwest Mr2 Meet. About that 3500 RPM idle . . . is the grey gadget with the electrical connection to it on the rear side of the TB . . . is it pointed more toward the rear of the car? If so, that could make the idle high and the warm-up cycle high. But otherwise, I think your first guess . . . vacuum leak . . . is the best so far. Last edited by Jackstand Queen; 02-03-2009 at 10:37 AM.. Reason: addition

02-14-2009, 12:59 PM	#12 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Car Wars . . . . fight's on! O.K. I got my second SC14 back from the shop yesterday. With the intake mods I'm doing it ought to rock better than before. Also my old SC14 was clicking loudly due to shot bearings. I suspect that it was triggering my knock sensor and causing the ECU to dumb down the timing. I got the Gas Select Switch wiring done, so I think the timing will change for the better for being able to select "premium" gas. I'm just a workday or two away from being back on the road. Bad news for Honda Owners.

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02-02-2009, 01:27 AM	#2 (permalink)
randomxzero 562 Understeer Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: 562 Posts: 1,171 Thanks: 10 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	man glad to hear another 2 is up!!... im still working on mine but ya i know what you mean by that boost of confidence!!! i swapped my tranny first time doing it and it worked!!.. CONGRATS MAN!!

02-03-2009, 01:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
Kevin mr2 1985 it started! yes! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Washington Posts: 435 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	dude nice u got it running all i got left to do is put the rebuilt harness on, vacuum hoses, throttle cable mount, some cooling problems, and etc. you know what never mind i wont be done for a whlie lol!

02-09-2009, 12:50 AM	#5 (permalink)
M.Bailey wrenching skills Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 118 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I didnt know that the two toned MR2s are rare. and I have lots of pictures on my jump drive but it is at school at the moment so pictures will have to wait until tomorrow if I can find time then. and for an update on the duece we fixed all of the air leakes and put the exhaust back on but it still does the same thing but now if you keep the throttle moving you can keep it running and then if you let off it will die, so just to some it up it starts revs to about 3500 and then wants to die but if you play with it wont and it will not idle. if any one could shed some light that would be great.

02-09-2009, 01:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Yeah my SC has run like butt more times than I can remember. So, I hope my experience helps. First, pull the codes off the ECU, there's a sticky on how to do that in this website. Its old school, you just count number of blinks on the check engine light. The most likely suspects are your AFM, TPS, ABV, and temperature sensors. Really look for corroded terminals on the AFM, TPS and sensors first. You do live in the Pacific NW afterall! The ABV air by pass valve hanging off the J shaped pipe underneath the TB: unless you have cleaned it already, it is probably completely gunked up with oil, and gummy residue. It allows the car to idle while the SC is not engaged. Yank yours off and use brake cleaner on its guts. Oh, and make sure it's VSV, and vacuum lines are square with the vacuum diagram under the engine lid. It can be tested if you have a vacuum gauge. If it doesn't work, you might consider replacing with a Bosch ABV as I have. A move I'm glad I made. The Bosch ABV only cost about $60. shipped. There is some fabbing involved, but not hard at all to do.

02-12-2009, 11:33 AM	#7 (permalink)
mr2tim SUPERcharZed ToyZ RacZer Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: South Florida Posts: 1,789 Thanks: 8 Thanked 118 Times in 111 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	Not to discount Jackstands possible issues and points to ponder, from your discription it sounds as if the car is starving for fuel. Quite often the fuel pressure is developed only enuff to start the car and idle for a short time. When demand is put on the fuel delivery system the clogged fuel pump strainer, clogged fuel filter or weak pump cannot meet the demand and the car is starved for fuel stutters and oftens dies right out. I would respectively suggest you address these 3 fuel items to confirm your car has the fuel being delivered that it needs in the first place. Once this assumption is made/confirmed then continue to troubleshoot the systems for a mechanical or electrical problem/malfunction. By starting with the basics you will not waste time and efforts and get frustrated with no progress towards a solution. The electrical system, as a rule, will not produce the symptoms you discribe. The are a go or no go senario and not a dying off problem. I give you this advice as a 19 year owner of 6 different Mark 1 MR2's I'm not a mechanic by trade but with sanctioned racing as a hobby I've had to learn alot or stay at home. Good luck, keep at it, you'll win the "Car Wars"!! mr2tim South Florida

02-12-2009, 12:11 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Yeah, along the lines of Mr2Tim's post . . . sometimes those metal fuel lines near the forward firewall get bent or pinched when you pull out the gas tank. I recall you put in a new pump, and doubltless a new fuel filter too. To get a fuel pressure reading at the fuel rail: I drilled a hole lengthways, in a bolt that screwed into the banjo bolt hole, that the start injector uses in the fuel rail. Use a grade I body type bolt, the metal is softer for drilling. From this, I was able to pull a fuel pressure reading at the fuel rail.

02-13-2009, 10:28 AM	#9 (permalink)
M.Bailey wrenching skills Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 118 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I will have to try that and the fuel pump and filter are new and there are no lines pinched I checked that already is it possible that a large vacuum leak could cause this?

02-13-2009, 12:42 PM	#10 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Vacuum leaks doing you dirty? Hell yes they could! Pull your IC, stand on end, fill with water (leak test it). You might want to fill it with foamy engine cleaner to clean it out and improve its cooling efficiency, while its out. I have a doctor's stethyscope that I use to localize engine noises. I've found a 3 foot long thin walled aluminum tube about 1/2" in diameter seems to work even better for some noises. Especially vacuum leaks. Brake Cleaner spray will cause an engine's idle to change, if sprayed around a good size leak. You are so close to getting her running good .. . . I can almost smell the "Win" in the air.

02-13-2009, 01:16 PM	#11 (permalink)
Kevin mr2 1985 it started! yes! Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Washington Posts: 435 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	lol the win... im getting my harness on tuesday of next week i hope to get it running next week. but mine is a 1994 4agze so there were a whole bunch of conversion ****.

02-17-2009, 11:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
M.Bailey wrenching skills Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 118 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I have tried everything that you guys have mentioned and it just runs like crap it doesnt idle and it doesnt even run smooth at like 3000rpm and i dont know were else to look. so far everything has checked out good mechanically like cam timing and such and I have tested everything that i know how to test and its all good. I'm totally lost and frusterated

02-18-2009, 08:59 AM	#14 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	So you live in the Village of the Damned too? Seems that keeping these boosted 20 year old relics running is problematic. Let's try some more basic diagnostics. Have you done the code check on the ECU? Have you tested your spark by observing how big a gap it will jump and the color of the spark? Have you tested your ABV? Have you compared your vacuum line placement to the diagram under the engine lid? There are a bunch of relays on the driver's side of the Ebay, and the SC relay, and ciruit open relay in the trunk. Have you tested them? Does the exhaust gas smell like gas? Does it run really weakly, like slow to rev up even in idle? Does it miss, sputter, knock, shudder, wheeze, etc. Give us some more details on how it sounds, feels, etc. Make a list of everything you've tested and you're certain is correct. You need the patience of an old man to work through these SC Mk I problems.