Massive oil leak

[ebouwman]

Hi there everybody

I finished my HG replacement and head rebuild at the end of january, and while doing that replaced a bunch of seals and gaskets along the way, but important to the topic at had is the cam gear seals that i did.

In november i had the car in to get a block heater and i asked them to check and see where abouts it was leaking, and they told me it was very clearly the cam gear seal.

Anyways, right after the rebuild i was monitoring everything carefully, mainly the oil consumption. The oil was slightly overfilled, but it stayed constant, it didn't burn a drop for the first two weeks or so.

After that i kind of left it be and assumed all was well, that is until this week when i realized it's using oil again, and quite a bit at that.

Today i went in and felt to see where the leak was, it seems that there is oil all over the passenger side of the block where it meats the oil pan, and on the front of the block again mainly on the passenger side, and more and more oil as i felt downward. I popped off the cam gear cover, and there's a bit of oil in there as well, mainly around the edge of the cam gear baffle, and more oil coating it as i felt downward. No oil on the timing belt.

The oil is dripping only from the passenger side it seems, and it is kind of dripping all over.

Kind of a lot to read, but any ideas on what's leaking?

I'm kinda thinking it's the oil pump (i've noticed oil pressure was a little lower than normal)

I don't really know much about the oil pump and how it all comes apart and even if it's possible to cause the kind of leak I'm looking at, so any help would be great.

[ebouwman]

I guess i shouldn't say massive, but fairly big,

also i did check the oil pressure sending unit and oil filter pretty closely, and they didn't seem to be leaking

[tjmr2]

You have a few places the oil can leak on the passenger side.
1. Distributor to head O ring.
2. Distributor internal O ring
3. Cam seals
4. Valve covers
5. Oil pump
6. Oil cooler lines, seals and oil filter housing and filter.

The Distributor to head O ring is prone to cracking and failure if you didn't replace it during the HG replacement I'd start there. It's a pain to check for as you have to reach around and under it to check for leaking, or look from under the car.

Pull the covers off the timing belt and check for seepage at the corners of the valve covers, the BGB suggests some silicone sealer be applied during installation.

The Oil cooler lines will crack and seep over time causing a mess on the passenger side.

The Oil pump is crankshaft driven on the passenger side, so is at the very bottom of the engine, a royal pain to pull and replace as the timing belt and pulley have to come off the crankshaft before you can get to the pump. If you have oil much above the mid-line of the engine I wouldn't suspect the pump.

Hope this helps, good luck!

[ebouwman]

Thanks, i was feeling around with a rubber glove yesterday so i could see where about it was leaking, the distributor is leaking a little bit, but not any where near enough to warrant me to go and replace it.

The oil cooling lines i think were a little bit oily, but again, ok.

I replaced the cam cover seals and did use silicone around the side with the cam gears.

I also replaced the cam gear seals.

Mainly the oil is on the bottom half of the engine.

I pulled all the timing belt covers off and the bottom two are pretty oily, the top only slightly.

The water pump pulley and outside of the pump is pretty oily, as well as on top of and around the dipstick.

The wierd thing is that the belts (both timing and the alternator belt) seem to be dry, but the whole outside of the oil pump (now exposed because i took the covers off) is oily, as well as the covers.

I went to the local parts store and got the gasket set for the oil pump and oil strainer (came together)

Is there anywhere else it could be leaking, i'm asking before i go through the trouble of pulling the pump off.

And should i just use silicone all around where the oil pump seals?

[ebouwman]

Does anyone know if i'll have to rip the exhaust right off to finish getting the oil pan off?

I'm half way there, but i've got a dentist appointment to get my wisdom teeth pulled


Also i think there might be a small leak in the lower oil cooler line where it goes into oil pan, should i just use a bit of silicon when i shove the line back on?

Hopefully i heal soon so i can get back at the car.

[ebouwman]

Update/Bump

I pulled the exhaust, the oil pan, and finally the oil pump.

It looks like the whole oil pump seal was leaking (the outside edges of the pump, not the crank seal)

What i need to know is should i use the U shaped gasket for around the oil pump, or just seal it up with silicone like the oil pan?

[ebouwman]

Ok i thought i'd post the update, because i hate when threads end with no explanation of how it was solved etc.

I used the oil pump gasket with NO silicone (got frustrated with the stuff and said **** it)

And all back together, no oil leaks from the passenger side of the block, and the oil pressure is back to normal, so i guess it was being affected by the oil leak...

[KyleSW20]

im having pretty much the exact same problem. dont know where the oil is coming from yet. im gonna put it on a lift tomorrow and check it out.... oh and the oil lines? i dont recall having any. maybe im just stupid, or they are only on a 3s.

[ebouwman]

that engine will be slightly different from the 4age, let me know how that goes...

Hopefully you'll get more help or feedback than i did...

EDIT: I smell a threadjack! LOL

[328FTW]

Originally Posted by KyleSW20

im having pretty much the exact same problem. dont know where the oil is coming from yet. im gonna put it on a lift tomorrow and check it out.... oh and the oil lines? i dont recall having any. maybe im just stupid, or they are only on a 3s.

Threadjacking! lol Sometimes a loose or bad oil filter seal can cause that leak. Mine had a leaking front main seal and that made a mess but most of it came out the bottom, some got thrown up by the cambelt to the top though. Have you checked the camseals?

[ebouwman]

Originally Posted by 328FTW

Threadjacking! lol Sometimes a loose or bad oil filter seal can cause that leak. Mine had a leaking front main seal and that made a mess but most of it came out the bottom, some got thrown up by the cambelt to the top though. Have you checked the camseals?

Oh yes the camseals...

I did those when i re-did the head gasket, isn't that fairly common?

When i pulled mine out the one had it's lip folded over, so it had been wrong since the very beginning when it'd been put in

A trick though for finding where abouts the leak is even before sticking it on a lift is to put on a rubber glove or something (i use those blue nitrile ones) and just feel the engine, and then check the glove for oil, and if you find some wipe it off the glove and keep looking.

It kind of helps you see where the oil is without actually seeing where the oil is.

At least thats what i did, not sure if it really helped me in the end though :P

[ebouwman]

OMFG I'M SO PISSED

i think i put in the cam gear seals in BACKWARDS

Cause the car is STILL leaking, i thought it'd be the oil cooler lines this time, but then i realized the leak is on BOTH sides, i looked at er more closely and it's coming from the cam gear seals, can't be anything else.

Thats when i thought about if for a sec, and realized they're probably backwards!

[89Mister Two]

That sucks man! How could you tell that their leaking again?

[ebouwman]

because i crawled under the car (trying to look at the oil cooler lines) and i realized its leaking on both the front and back of the block (on the passenger side) and i had a way better view and i could see the leak coming from near the top on the backside of the block. So there is nowhere else, then i thought about it, and realized i'm pretty sure they're backwards! Makes sense also, because they sealed for the first week, then i started getting the leak!

But makes me realize that i wasted my time with the oil pump s***. ARGH!

I'll pull them off tomorrow and turn them around, they should still be good.

I did basically get everything else on the car working right though, cleaned egr, new o2 sensor, plugged vacuum leak, and new header + exhaust. My fuel consumption is WAY down, so now, if i keep going at this very leaky rate, being i use mobil1 i'll be spending more on oil than on gas pretty soon!!!

This is almost a relief though, because i was worried i was going to have to replace the oil cooler lines. I'd much rather freeze my knuckles off working on the car for longer and save money, than spend 200 dollars for new cooler lines.

[328FTW]

Oil cooler lines are not that expensive, braided fuel injected line would do. A stainless steel braided line would be best from a reliability factor point of view because it shouldn't suddenly decide to snap one day like one of my oem lines did.

[tjmr2]

The Oil cooler lines are just a braided rubber hose rated for fuel and oil. I replaced mine using some hose I got at the local NAPA. All they had was inch sizes, think I used 3/8". It wasn't fun getting it on as the OEM was metric, just a few thousandth's larger, but it does fit.

If you can find metric hose it would make the job a lot easier. Still I got it done in an afternoon with the car up on jackstands.

[Maticuno]

I had the same thing happen to me when I replaced the head gasket and all seals associated with it. Went fine at first and then a day or two later it was hemorrhaging oil all over the place. I didn't have time to rip into again so I had a shop look into it and they found it leaking from the camshaft seals. I associate the problem with cheap seals from Autozone. Shop put in Toyota seals and they work fine. As far as putting the seals in backwards, the side that is open and you can see the spring goes towards the engine when you put those on. Also, put a little bit of grease on the seal before sliding it onto the camshaft. This will help prevent the rubber lip of the seal from folding over on itself. Sorry I didn't get to this post sooner, I never check the general maintenance section.

[ebouwman]

I got new seals (unfortunately not toyota, because i missed that post) and put em in today.

I realized how they go in when it struck me that they were leaking, and remembered how the crank seal went on, ugg, can't believe i didn't realize it when i first did it though.

The price for the oil cooler lines was the toyota dealer price.

Some things aren't worth getting from toyota, i never bought them i should add, and they were 200 for the pair.

I'll see how they maintain their seals within a week, and hopefully i don't have to do it again with toyota seals.

One thing i did notice is that my oil pressure sits a LOT lower at idle now and a bit higher than before at high rpm, not sure why, or how it'd be affected by anything i did today, because i didn't really touch any oil lines. But i'll see how it goes.

[89Mister Two]

Glad to see you got em put in the right way. It's all good, we all make mistakes. Do let us know how long the aftermarket seals last.

[ebouwman]

Will do, they look good so far

I parked it out on the road so i could see the oil drip on the snow.

Went for a long drive with my dog in the passenger seat (don't worry, seats are bad enough that it doesn't even matter anymore) I left if for an hour and check for oil, and there was a little bit, but i think that it's just more drip down from the oil still on the block.

If i do have to change them to toyota ones, then at least i know how to change them out faster now. That the biggest thing that plagued me when doing my head gasket, not knowing what order to do things in to get it done faster, also knowing when to trust the haynes manual, and to know when it's full of s***