Need help guys!! DLI 4agze problems

AE92JDMR2 · 07-20-2009, 03:03 PM

Hello, first time poster here, not sure if this is in the right section...

I've recently gotten my mr2 up and running and am having a problem, just wanted to see if anyone else here had the same problem or maybe a resolution for me.

The car is an 87 mr2 and the engine that was swapped in is an AE92 4agze with the distibutorless ignition, and no AFM.

The problem I'm having is sometimes when I start it, cold or warm, it hesitates when I press the gas, but will pick back up by second gear. So then I'm cruising along, let off the gas and let the engine hold me back, like on a hill, and it will start bucking like someone is tapping the gas or something, so I have to push the clutch in, then it will idle weird for a second, and most of the time, stall. Sometimes it stalls pulling up to a light after the weird idle thing. And it smells like gas...

No check engine light on either...

Does anyone have any ideas?

Thanks guys

AE92JDMR2 · 07-20-2009, 08:06 PM

noone?

Jackstand Queen · 07-21-2009, 10:44 AM

Pull the trouble codes from the ECU.
Even if the check engine light doesn't stay on, there's probably some codes to be pulled.

donnyavery · 07-21-2009, 11:08 AM

it sound like your tps is out of adjustment if its to high the car will rev up and down if its to low there will a studier like no gas no gas and then it jacks you back and starts to go or at lest thats what it seems like your explaining

AE92JDMR2 · 07-23-2009, 12:02 AM

Cool. Thanks for the replies guys. Tomorrow I'll pull the codes and check my tps, anyone have any idea how to set these things? I have the voltmeter/ohmmeter( think that's what I use, eh?)

And an update, it seems to only happen when I'm coasting in gear, or when I'm barely giving it gas. Sometimes it dies and wont start till I reset the ECU, the check engine light just comes on while cranking and will do that for a while till I reset it... Almost seems like the gas isn't getting to the engine or something.... Maybe not enough fuel pressure? But then why would it run better at higher rpms?!!?!? Lol sorry for the rant, I'm just freaking out. I have alot of money invested in this thing and I need it to run right.

Thanks all!

seanfromnh · 07-23-2009, 12:33 AM

I had a mitsubishi that did that... Its either something electrical or maybe its like you said fuel pressure... But i think it could also be the fuel pump...

AE92JDMR2 · 07-23-2009, 12:55 AM

Do fuel pumps loose oomph after a while? Maybe it's not pumping the pressure it needs, but then why would it run better at full throttle and higher rpms?
I'll pull the codes tomorrow and check back.
thanks!

328FTW · 07-23-2009, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AE92JDMR2

Do fuel pumps loose oomph after a while? Maybe it's not pumping the pressure it needs, but then why would it run better at full throttle and higher rpms?
I'll pull the codes tomorrow and check back.
thanks!

The pumps can start to stick sometimes, I had a subaru that did it, at first we thought it was a power issue so I straight out wired it to the ON supply for the ignition and it still was iffy. You had to kick the tank to make it work, it ran flawlessly at high rpm I'll add, I pulled 8grand and threw a rod out the side

Check the cheap/free things first though.

Jackstand Queen · 07-23-2009, 12:00 PM

Fuel pumps more frequently suddenly die, than slowly degrade.

Take a look at your fuel filter. Does it look 20 years old?

Do a search on this site and look for "BGB download" look for a link to it. It is a 1000 page manual for the US version of the 88/89 SC & N.A. Mr2s. 98% of the manual will apply to your distributorless, MAP sensor using car. You can of course find a section for adjusting the TPS. By the way, Donavery's call on the TPS being potentially at fault is a good one.

Vacuum leaks would be another likely suspect.

muffinman · 07-23-2009, 01:05 PM

BGB download
Free File Hosting Made Simple - MediaFire

AE92JDMR2 · 07-23-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackstand Queen

Fuel pumps more frequently suddenly die, than slowly degrade.

Take a look at your fuel filter. Does it look 20 years old?

Do a search on this site and look for "BGB download" look for a link to it. It is a 1000 page manual for the US version of the 88/89 SC & N.A. Mr2s. 98% of the manual will apply to your distributorless, MAP sensor using car. You can of course find a section for adjusting the TPS. By the way, Donavery's call on the TPS being potentially at fault is a good one.

Vacuum leaks would be another likely suspect.

Yeah I've never had a fuel pump degrade, like you said, they just crap out... I have a feeling it is the tps, because when I'm coasting in gear and its bucking, if I put my foot under the gas pedal and pull it up, it will stall out.
But could the tps just come out of adjustment like that? It ran fine up until about a week and a half ago...

I changed the fuel filter when I did the swap, maybe my tank is rusty as hell and sucked up some crap in it or something...

Checked all my vacuum lines and stuff too, even replaced a dry rotted cap or two, all looks good there...

Thanks for the BGB link, I'll check that out.

Pulled the codes today and got 21, 43, and 51... The 51 was always there for me after the swap, something with the SC relay I think...

Thank you all sooooo much!!

muffinman · 07-23-2009, 03:15 PM

BGB FI-24 & 25

21- o2 sensor
43- starter signal
51- switch signal

AE92JDMR2 · 07-23-2009, 04:51 PM

What could starter signal be?

muffinman · 07-23-2009, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AE92JDMR2

What could starter signal be?

It says

No "STA" signal to ECU until engine speed reaches 800 rpmwith vehicle not moving.

trouble area

*IG switch circuit
*IG switch
*ECU

muffinman · 07-23-2009, 04:57 PM

trust me download the BGB it will help you alot.

AE92JDMR2 · 07-23-2009, 06:54 PM

Yeah I'm looking it over now... I don't understand what the IG switch is tho

AE92JDMR2 · 07-23-2009, 06:59 PM

Found this too
Code 51 (AC compressor switch signal) is erratic by nature and will sometimes come on without malfunction.

Makes sense, I unhooked all of the AC stuff...

Jackstand Queen · 07-23-2009, 08:28 PM

IG is ignition switch.

The IG code could be pointing to the "circuit opening relay". Its a relay on the left of the ECU, that activates the fuel pump temporarily until the AFM senses continuous air flow. The starter, fuel pump, and coil are all wrapped up in this relay.

Most of your electrical problems will be age and corrosion caused. Start upplugging stuff, cleaning off the terminals and replug. Check the 3 grounds off the front right side of the intake manifold.
Unscrew the injector solenoid where it bolt onto the body. It grounds there, and is doubtless moldy.

I'm glad to see someone aggressively learning, and attacking the problems of 20 year old forced induction EFI. And they are Legion.

AE92JDMR2 · 07-23-2009, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackstand Queen

IG is ignition switch.

The IG code could be pointing to the "circuit opening relay". Its a relay on the left of the ECU, that activates the fuel pump temporarily until the AFM senses continuous air flow. The starter, fuel pump, and coil are all wrapped up in this relay.

Most of your electrical problems will be age and corrosion caused. Start upplugging stuff, cleaning off the terminals and replug. Check the 3 grounds off the front right side of the intake manifold.
Unscrew the injector solenoid where it bolt onto the body. It grounds there, and is doubtless moldy.

I'm glad to see someone aggressively learning, and attacking the problems of 20 year old forced induction EFI. And they are Legion.

Well when I swapped this engine in a few months ago, everything was gone over, the harness was off and all, and we cleaned everything very well. The engine I got was VERY clean too...

I tried replacing the Circuit opening relay, same thing...

In my searching, i found that the starter code could be from:
1. Main relay circuit.
2. IG switch circuit (starter).
3. IG switch.
4. ECU.
5. The vehicle has been push-started.

Number 5, Push started, or popped the clutch while rolling, exactly what I do when it stalls on the highway... So I think once I have my fuel problem solved, this will go away...

Sorry for being dumb at the moment, but what's Legion?

Thanks!

Jackstand Queen · 07-24-2009, 01:45 AM

The Legion reference was when Jesus performed an exorcism of a possessed man . . . a bunch of small demons scattered away from the man. "For they were many and Legion". Its also a reference to the huge numbers of Roman soldiers occupying Jerusalem at the time.

I was thinking of the many, many problems that plague these old forced induction EFI systems. They are a lot harder to keep running and make them run as best they can. . . . vs. an N.A. setup.

Its also possible your SC clutch or fanbelt is slipping. Also the ABV air by pass valve could be sticking due to its insides being gunked up.

As your search for the problem continues, you may end up unplugging the ECU and testing the wiring harness between it and the various devices. I hate doing these tests.

Another easy test is test the Fuel pressure Regulator. At idle, take apply vacuum and slight pressure to the vacuum line going to the FPR. The engine should very slightly respond to both inputs. If it doesn't, Airtex makes a replacement found at rockauto.com.

07-20-2009, 03:03 PM	#1 (permalink)
AE92JDMR2 No Skills Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Need help guys!! DLI 4agze problems Hello, first time poster here, not sure if this is in the right section... I've recently gotten my mr2 up and running and am having a problem, just wanted to see if anyone else here had the same problem or maybe a resolution for me. The car is an 87 mr2 and the engine that was swapped in is an AE92 4agze with the distibutorless ignition, and no AFM. The problem I'm having is sometimes when I start it, cold or warm, it hesitates when I press the gas, but will pick back up by second gear. So then I'm cruising along, let off the gas and let the engine hold me back, like on a hill, and it will start bucking like someone is tapping the gas or something, so I have to push the clutch in, then it will idle weird for a second, and most of the time, stall. Sometimes it stalls pulling up to a light after the weird idle thing. And it smells like gas... No check engine light on either... Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks guys

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07-20-2009, 08:06 PM	#2 (permalink)
AE92JDMR2 No Skills Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	noone?

07-21-2009, 10:44 AM	#3 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Pull the trouble codes from the ECU. Even if the check engine light doesn't stay on, there's probably some codes to be pulled.

07-21-2009, 11:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
donnyavery body tech Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: pa Posts: 180 Thanks: 2 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	it sound like your tps is out of adjustment if its to high the car will rev up and down if its to low there will a studier like no gas no gas and then it jacks you back and starts to go or at lest thats what it seems like your explaining

07-23-2009, 12:02 AM	#5 (permalink)
AE92JDMR2 No Skills Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Cool. Thanks for the replies guys. Tomorrow I'll pull the codes and check my tps, anyone have any idea how to set these things? I have the voltmeter/ohmmeter( think that's what I use, eh?) And an update, it seems to only happen when I'm coasting in gear, or when I'm barely giving it gas. Sometimes it dies and wont start till I reset the ECU, the check engine light just comes on while cranking and will do that for a while till I reset it... Almost seems like the gas isn't getting to the engine or something.... Maybe not enough fuel pressure? But then why would it run better at higher rpms?!!?!? Lol sorry for the rant, I'm just freaking out. I have alot of money invested in this thing and I need it to run right. Thanks all!

07-23-2009, 12:33 AM	#6 (permalink)
seanfromnh MRnot2fast Join Date: May 2009 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 42 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I had a mitsubishi that did that... Its either something electrical or maybe its like you said fuel pressure... But i think it could also be the fuel pump...

07-23-2009, 12:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
AE92JDMR2 No Skills Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Do fuel pumps loose oomph after a while? Maybe it's not pumping the pressure it needs, but then why would it run better at full throttle and higher rpms? I'll pull the codes tomorrow and check back. thanks!

07-23-2009, 12:00 PM	#9 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Fuel pumps more frequently suddenly die, than slowly degrade. Take a look at your fuel filter. Does it look 20 years old? Do a search on this site and look for "BGB download" look for a link to it. It is a 1000 page manual for the US version of the 88/89 SC & N.A. Mr2s. 98% of the manual will apply to your distributorless, MAP sensor using car. You can of course find a section for adjusting the TPS. By the way, Donavery's call on the TPS being potentially at fault is a good one. Vacuum leaks would be another likely suspect.

07-23-2009, 01:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
muffinman Brain Surgeon Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,797 Thanks: 24 Thanked 102 Times in 99 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	BGB download Free File Hosting Made Simple - MediaFire

07-23-2009, 03:15 PM	#12 (permalink)
muffinman Brain Surgeon Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,797 Thanks: 24 Thanked 102 Times in 99 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	BGB FI-24 & 25 21- o2 sensor 43- starter signal 51- switch signal

07-23-2009, 04:51 PM	#13 (permalink)
AE92JDMR2 No Skills Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	What could starter signal be?

07-23-2009, 04:57 PM	#15 (permalink)
muffinman Brain Surgeon Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Ft. Lauderdale Posts: 1,797 Thanks: 24 Thanked 102 Times in 99 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	trust me download the BGB it will help you alot.

07-23-2009, 06:54 PM	#16 (permalink)
AE92JDMR2 No Skills Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Yeah I'm looking it over now... I don't understand what the IG switch is tho

07-23-2009, 06:59 PM	#17 (permalink)
AE92JDMR2 No Skills Join Date: Jul 2009 Posts: 13 Thanks: 10 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Found this too Code 51 (AC compressor switch signal) is erratic by nature and will sometimes come on without malfunction. Makes sense, I unhooked all of the AC stuff...

07-23-2009, 08:28 PM	#18 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	IG is ignition switch. The IG code could be pointing to the "circuit opening relay". Its a relay on the left of the ECU, that activates the fuel pump temporarily until the AFM senses continuous air flow. The starter, fuel pump, and coil are all wrapped up in this relay. Most of your electrical problems will be age and corrosion caused. Start upplugging stuff, cleaning off the terminals and replug. Check the 3 grounds off the front right side of the intake manifold. Unscrew the injector solenoid where it bolt onto the body. It grounds there, and is doubtless moldy. I'm glad to see someone aggressively learning, and attacking the problems of 20 year old forced induction EFI. And they are Legion.

07-24-2009, 01:45 AM	#20 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 677 Thanks: 52 Thanked 56 Times in 53 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	The Legion reference was when Jesus performed an exorcism of a possessed man . . . a bunch of small demons scattered away from the man. "For they were many and Legion". Its also a reference to the huge numbers of Roman soldiers occupying Jerusalem at the time. I was thinking of the many, many problems that plague these old forced induction EFI systems. They are a lot harder to keep running and make them run as best they can. . . . vs. an N.A. setup. Its also possible your SC clutch or fanbelt is slipping. Also the ABV air by pass valve could be sticking due to its insides being gunked up. As your search for the problem continues, you may end up unplugging the ECU and testing the wiring harness between it and the various devices. I hate doing these tests. Another easy test is test the Fuel pressure Regulator. At idle, take apply vacuum and slight pressure to the vacuum line going to the FPR. The engine should very slightly respond to both inputs. If it doesn't, Airtex makes a replacement found at rockauto.com.