Rain+Cone Airfilter question

[ToyotaTechGeek]

Originally Posted by LokiRx7

However my Rx-7 did experience a no start situation that was caused by an excessive amount of oil entering the combustion chamber, by the time I cleared it out of the engine the carb was so gunked up I opted to rebuild it because there was filter oil EVERYWHERE inside the throat of the carb. Ive made mistakes, who hasnt? I dont think you can be considered a real mechanic until youve made mistakes, lol!

ok, not picking on you, but i find this strange. the reason is that since the wankel 'uses' oil, i have seen high horsepower wankel builds (complete with BIG Holley carbs) actually utilize an oil 'feed' line that drips directly into the carb. i guess if you had "excessive oil" i wonder if you used an entire can of the K&N oil.

[LokiRx7]

Originally Posted by ToyotaTechGeek

ok, not picking on you, but i find this strange. the reason is that since the wankel 'uses' oil, i have seen high horsepower wankel builds (complete with BIG Holley carbs) actually utilize an oil 'feed' line that drips directly into the carb. i guess if you had "excessive oil" i wonder if you used an entire can of the K&N oil.

I think I did, Wankels do naturally consume oil, in order to keep the apex seals lubricated while the engine is running.There is no other way for oil to enter the combustion chamber. The stock carb injects oil into the engine, but in small amounts. In higher horsepower builds they generally remove the feed line and mix fuel and oil in the gas tank, this is called 'premixing' - although most high horsepower builds dont use Holley's either. Big weber two barrel downdrafts are typically used.

Without boost a 12a simply wont break 200 - 250 hp, so unless the Holley is boosted, it isnt a 'high' hp build. Not disrespecting anyones build though!

That said, the oil injected rotaries (Rx-8 included!) use SMALL amounts of oil. Shouldnt typically be that noticable if you do regular oil changes, even at 5,000 miles. I used a ton of air filter oil and rotaries arent exactly easy to start cold anyway. That and this was before I went to a direct fire ignition, I used to foul plugs all the time with just fuel on my old ignition set up. My carb would dump so much fuel in at start up it would 'wash out' the plugs. When I was cranking the engine over blowing oil out, I had a rag next to the plug holes to keep the frame rail clean. It was pretty wet and covered in a red oil when I was done, I had to throw out that airfilter anyway.

The reason I used so much was when you clean them, when you get to the step where you add oil, as you ad the oil they turn the red color they usually are. With no oil they are black, or white, or even grey while you clean the oil out of them. The instructions say 'add oil until red color returns to the filter'.

Well my filter was too dirty and had been re-used too many times, so it didnt turn red... So I kept adding oil... BUT it didnt get so wet that it was dripping even though I did use most of the can.

Anyway, the moral is I learned from it, and havent ever made the same mistake.

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by LokiRx7

Are you a child? Or do you just like to argue for the sake of arguing? You are nothing but an ass-hole, I hope you realize that. I have no other way of comparing cars, I have two 86 MR2's which I clearly stated that I compared them. And a matter of fact I have pointed it out now SEVERAL times I never use my comparison as 'scientific' fact. The cars all have the same engine, the output between the bigports DOESNT VARY MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If I sat here and explained in detail every tiny little difference between the two I would be here all day!! You are a troll who has nothing better to do than point out every microscopic flaw in my argument, most of which I leave open because I figured maybe you would assume, yeah why would someone want to type out everything in detail, I pointed out the biggest differences that came to mind. Your right, they arent even the same displacement, comparing a 1.6 to a 1.6 is just apples to oranges. My AE-92 doesnt accelerate the same way as my 8-6 or MR2 Which is why on the interstate it nearly runs dead even with my MR2, your right terrible comparison.....

I dont own a damn engine or chassis dyno you ass, Im not taking any of my cars to one because they arent modified enough to merit the trip, ding dong. I retract my apology, you are an idiot, you are the one who thinks I threw that comment out there as if it were the gospel.

So to reiterate what I originally said for your INCREDIBLY LOW intelligence level.

My MR2 is a DD, I DONT GIVE A DAMN IF MY TINY AIR FILTER IS RESTRICTING 3 HORSEPOWER! That was why I brought up the comparison, someone said my air filter was tiny. IT DOESNT FEEL NOTICEABLY SLOWER THAN ANY OF MY OTHER 4A-GE POWERED VEHICLES. A matter of fact its kinda odd that the magazine articles from Road and track give similiar 1/4 mile times for the 8-6 and MR2 N/A. But in your alternate universe apparently MR and FR accelerate SO differently that they cant be compared at all.

Since it is a DD I DONT GIVE A DAMN IF I CANT NOTICE THE DIFFERENCE THROUGH THE SEAT OF MY PANTS. If that isnt clear enough for you BANG YOUR HEAD ON A WALL, it might make more sense.

That original post wasnt even directed at you, so I dont know why you brought it up other than to e-thug, which so far you have proved to be a failure at that too. Oh yeah, its because you dont read things slowly enough and take EVERYTHING OUT OF CONTEXT!

EDIT ::

You never made an attempt to end the conversation, you made your 'point' and then went on slandering other things I had said in posts to other people, grow up!

This is all a common thread... you or anyone else can make a comment towards anything you, another member, or I say within this thread.

Further, Road and Track may have similar 1/4 mile times, but I would assume the 0-60 isn't the same (which would be road worthy acceleration comparisons)... and you're also talking about figures for cars that are over 20 years old. But maybe you're right.... maybe my 86 F150 with a 351W will walk all over an 86 mustang... I mean, they're similar engines after all... And now even worse you're saying comparing a 1.6 to a 1.6 is like comparing apples to oranges sarcastically..... but again, you're 100% right.... you should go drive an 88 AE95 then drive a 98 civic SI... they both have 1.6's but they should be the same.....

Yes, I can be an ******* when people are trying to pass their attempted proof of concept as fact, which will then cause another member to unnecessarily spend their money. Again, I comment on things I have experience on. I try to help other members who have questions and will refute comments in which are not correct. However, I'm also the guy who sells parts to other local guys and helps them install them either for very cheap or nothing at all. I have driven hundreds of miles to help MK1 owners out without asking for so much as gas money. But, if you're making false statements and then turning around arguing that they're factual, I will start to show other members other mistakes within your comments to show that you may not be the best source for information. Which yes, makes me an ******* to that person. If someone on here has reconsidered buying one because of concern they had, then I may not be one to them. There's always 2 ways to view each conversation.

When it comes to this conversation, quite honestly... I don't really even have a want to open this topic anymore... I am embarassed at both of our behaviours -- and although I brought up the topic of requiring a water shield being useless, I feel like I am the one having to defend myself here -- which is only causing me to point out the err in your comments even more.

So, again.... if anyone else on here wants to buy a rain shield for the purpose of ensuring the car will or won't start -- save your money. If you want it as a shiny accessory that will slowly lose it's lustre and possibly break, I'm sure you can find one on ebay for around $10 shipped.

And for those of you who care... I had one in my ae92 for a few years.... it was garbage and have no idea where it is now.

[ToyotaTechGeek]

Originally Posted by LokiRx7

I think I did, Wankels do naturally consume oil, in order to keep the apex seals lubricated while the engine is running.There is no other way for oil to enter the combustion chamber. The stock carb injects oil into the engine, but in small amounts. In higher horsepower builds they generally remove the feed line and mix fuel and oil in the gas tank, this is called 'premixing' - although most high horsepower builds dont use Holley's either. Big weber two barrel downdrafts are typically used.

Without boost a 12a simply wont break 200 - 250 hp, so unless the Holley is boosted, it isnt a 'high' hp build.

first, i don't really understand that statement. true the 12A isn't terrific and the 13B is a better platform, but...

i agree that many premix, but for some it's not an option due to fuel loads and difficulty in mixing. i'm sorry, but i've been taught by a Mazda-trained Puerto Rican friend about wankels and i don't concur with what you say about high horsepower builds. i know you said you have a stock build. what kinds of porting have you ever worked with or performed? i'm just asking.
i also have covered the Pan-American races (Team Puerto Rico vs Team USA). where i did see a few vehicles with Webers, there are far greater number of cars (at that level of competition) running Holley carbuertraitors.

[LokiRx7]

First I apoligize to the OP and all the other forum members, I am unsubscribing from this thread and I wont post anymore crap in here.

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

.maybe my 86 F150 with a 351W will walk all over an 86 mustang... I mean, they're similar engines after all... And now even worse you're saying comparing a 1.6 to a 1.6 is like comparing apples to oranges sarcastically..... but again, you're 100% right.... you should go drive an 88 AE95 then drive a 98 civic SI... they both have 1.6's but they should be the same.....

Again, you are trying to disprove me, by using a comparison that is totally different than my comparison. I didnt compare vehicles that were nothing alike, the AE-92 and MR2 have nearly the same curb weight and an ae-86 is within 200 lbs of both of those cars. MR, FR, FF and 200lbs variance between all the cars wont make any more than POSSIBLY two tenths to a half second difference in 0-60 times. Your the one who is ignorant if you somehow think that is ANYTHING like comparing a Mustang to an F-150 whose curb weights are WAY different. Again I am comparing 1.6's from the same manufacturer made within 5 years of one another with nearly the same output, that is not even CLOSE to comparing an SR5 Corolla to a Civic SI. The simple fact you think it is shows how wildly out of context you take everything I say.

Yes, I can be an ******* when people are trying to pass their attempted proof of concept as fact, which will then cause another member to unnecessarily spend their money.

The question was, HOW DO I KEEP MY AIR FILTER FROM GETTING RAINED ON. You are a real ass, do you know that??
I answered it with a viable solution, that I made from EXPERIENCE. You in reality havent contributed to this thread at all.

You havent shown anything other than your opinion. I didnt see fact anywhere. All this is, is your word against mine. Except you called me a flat out liar, nowhere did I say anything you said couldnt be true or possible in some way, this is the difference. And the reason neither of us can end this arguement. We really have no choice but to agree to disagree.

Again, I comment on things I have experience on. I try to help other members who have questions and will refute comments in which are not correct. However, I'm also the guy who sells parts to other local guys and helps them install them either for very cheap or nothing at all.

So are you saying you are refuting the fact that my solution will keep an air filter dry? Am I not correct in that regaurd? I showed a solution, and gave the scenario in which I was led to purchase one. You refuted my experience, and told me it couldnt have happened. So apparently I have a memory of an event that did not occur.

What does selling parts and installing them for nothing at all have anything to do with this? It doesnt!!


I have driven hundreds of miles to help MK1 owners out without asking for so much as gas money. But, if you're making false statements and then turning around arguing that they're factual, I will start to show other members other mistakes within your comments to show that you may not be the best source for information. Which yes, makes me an ******* to that person. If someone on here has reconsidered buying one because of concern they had, then I may not be one to them. There's always 2 ways to view each conversation.

There is one way to view this conversation, you are simply a complete ass, who somehow thinks helping other members and e-thugging on the internet will make you popular. The simple fact is, someone needed a viable solution to keep their air filter dry, I told them how, you didnt do anything but start a flamefest. I dont care if someone has reconsidered buying one, that is their choice, it doesnt matter to me. Alot of people on this forum dont like having a wet air filter, its been an issue ever since people started posting here. There are write ups as to how to make plastic ones, metal ones, plexi-glass ones, so I do think you are in the minority on this one.

When it comes to this conversation, quite honestly... I don't really even have a want to open this topic anymore... I am embarassed at both of our behaviours -- and although I brought up the topic of requiring a water shield being useless, I feel like I am the one having to defend myself here -- which is only causing me to point out the err in your comments even more.

I am embarrassed I even responded after the dumba$$ comment on an F-150 and a Mustang, I didnt compare a 22r toyota truck to an old Celica GT genius. Hell I didnt even make it sound like it was fact you ignorant tool. I said "Hey I dont care if its a tiny air filter, it doesnt feel noticeably slower than any of my other cars, so I dont feel like messing with it. The simple fact you keep bringing it up shows how pathetic your argument is. You cant seem to understand I didnt TRY TO PASS IT AS SOME FORM OF FACT!!!!!! You seriously have some issues guy, work them out....

So, again.... if anyone else on here wants to buy a rain shield for the purpose of ensuring the car will or won't start -- save your money. If you want it as a shiny accessory that will slowly lose it's lustre and possibly break, I'm sure you can find one on ebay for around $10 shipped.

Now that you are reading this part, do you remember what the original topic was? You cant, your argument has degraded to the point that you dont even know what we are talking about! I was the one that brought up my experience of my car not starting, a point that in reality has nothing to do with the topic either! You still havent even proven any facts other than spouting some things that I havent even refuted.I really dont even know why you are arguing other than you just cant stop

And for those of you who care... I had one in my ae92 for a few years.... it was garbage and have no idea where it is now.

So if you had one, on a car.... that.... doesnt have any louvers to allow water to drop onto the filter.... Why is this such a huge deal to you? At this point I use one because if I dont the mesh on my air filter rusts. Yes they are really cheaply made, but I live in the boonies and the only ones locally available are at Advance Auto parts. So mine serves a purpose, EVEN if a sopping wet air filter does not keep the car from starting. So nothing you say is going to make me stop using mine. So... Really any points you have made to me are meaningless, so you arent helping everyone like you somehow think you are. And if you think I am some horrible person that doesnt help MR2 members, their is a member who lives within 20 minutes of me. We dont know each other really well, but any part he has needed that I have had, I have given him for free. I helped him put the top end of his engine together for free, I help local 7 members for free, I am currently trying to give away an entire interior for a 1st gen FOR FREE. To be honest, even now, I would be willing to help you work on your car, because despite the fact we argue. Deep down we are more similar than you know. We both own 2's and you know you love cruising around town with a bunch of 2's. So remember that the next time you think you are helping the entire forum by picking out some 'fact' you dont like. You arent a moderator, you arent really helping, by now we both have polluted this thread with a TON of really useless posts. Just leave it be, unless they say something REALLY out there.

[toyotaspeed90]

I think you should go back through the thread... you were already on the defensive against ToyotaTechGeek before I even made a comment.....


further this was YOUR first comment to my initial statement

Originally Posted by LokiRx7

Have you ever tried starting a car with a sopping wet air filter? Apparently not, even on the seafoam container it tells you to fully warm up the engine, and warns you not to let the car die while you are adding the seafoam. Its the same with carb cleaner, Ive had a car sputter and die when I was cleaning the carb. Its a BITCH to start it even when its hot, its worse when its cold.

Before I had this piece of stainless over my air filter I came out one day after it had been raining all night and my car wouldnt start. I had to take off the air filter and pull all the spark plugs and turn it over a few times to clear out the cylinders. Even after that I barely got it started.

to which this was my initial response.

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

there won't be any damage to the engine from the small amounts of water that will come through the filter there.... you could probably even spray a hose on it and it would be fine...

hydrolocking only occurs when the filter is completely submerged in water.... in that there is no air to pull through... air is lighter than water and will be pulled through before water.... If small amounts of water gets through.... all you'll do is create some steam in the cylinder and probably wash some carbon off.

Funny how people on here are more than willing to dump seafoam through their engine and then are concerned about a little rain

but you're right... I'm the first one to be all huffy & puffy in here and being completely disrespectful to all and contributing nothing to this topic.

As I said... in your experience, there must have been another unknown factor which is causing a problem. These engines have enough vacuum to pull air through a wet air filter.


To the OP:

usually the bigger problem with washing cars/engine bays isn't the air filter.... the seals on the valve cover center portion (which is where the spark plug wires snap in) usually lose their seal easily... water gets down into the spark plug valley and can cause ignition problems.

[LokiRx7]

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

I think you should go back through the thread... you were already on the defensive against ToyotaTechGeek before I even made a comment.....


further this was YOUR first comment to my initial statement



to which this was my initial response.




but you're right... I'm the first one to be all huffy & puffy in here and being completely disrespectful to all and contributing nothing to this topic.

As I said... in your experience, there must have been another unknown factor which is causing a problem. These engines have enough vacuum to pull air through a wet air filter.


To the OP:

usually the bigger problem with washing cars/engine bays isn't the air filter.... the seals on the valve cover center portion (which is where the spark plug wires snap in) usually lose their seal easily... water gets down into the spark plug valley and can cause ignition problems.

So that said, are you done filling the forum with useless posts? The exchange between me and ToyotaTechGeek was far less heated. So I am obviously not the sole problem here.

[ToyotaTechGeek]

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

To the OP:

usually the bigger problem with washing cars/engine bays isn't the air filter.... the seals on the valve cover center portion (which is where the spark plug wires snap in) usually lose their seal easily... water gets down into the spark plug valley and can cause ignition problems.

+1
yeah, sorry to fubar your thread.

[YellowJacket]

Originally Posted by efx

For those that have this setup, how did you get your ac lines on this thing. Pictures anyone. I saw the padandwheels, but I wonder if anyone has actually tapped a hole on the body.

Original write up: MKI MR2 Write-ups

The pic below is a substitute solution for STEP 2 in the INSTALL portion of the write up.
If you dont have an NA mk1 then you wont care.
If you dont have the PadandWheels intake mod then you wont care.
If you don't have A/C then you wont care.

Here is a 'better mousetrap' solution for the AC Idle up vac line that JavaJoe79 did on his Mk1 and he did this on my mk1 as well....pretty slick if you ask me.

He tapped into the metered side of the AFM instead of the tubing:




and a CLOSE UP:

[efx]

Thanks for the pictures. I was thinking of doing the same thing on that same spot, but the other AFM I have is flat on that side. I don't have that raised area where he tapped into, no big deal but I'm looking at it right now and I guess he used one from a different car.

[espguitarist33]

just go to pepboys and get the "add a vacume line" connector instead of just a blank pipe connector

[efx]

What does that look like? I have those lines to connect to the AFM, but the setup just doesn't have a place to plug to and my hose would just go into that connector like his. Oh I forgot, what size did you use on yours yellow. I'm sure they come in different sizes. I still have to look at mine then see what I need.
Well, I found these, but they are all plastic and I'm looking for the metal one that I can screw into a tapped hole. Search Results at CSK Auto

I'll stop by the stores to see what they have. I haven't done that but I'm sure they may have something.

Originally Posted by espguitarist33

just go to pepboys and get the "add a vacume line" connector instead of just a blank pipe connector

[espguitarist33]

yea this thing is just a straight connector, just like hte ones eveyrone uses, but it has like 3 or 4 caps on it, and it comes with nipples to put in there, and whatever you need to plumb on you can do it off of one of those nipples. 20 bucks or so i think?

Spectre Vacuum/Sensor Tube:eBay Motors (item 300233488481 end time Dec-05-09 09:20:59 PST)
theres one on ebay

[scottohno]

Originally Posted by LokiRx7

Wow your amazing, go soak a sponge until its sopping wet. Put your lips on it, suck in, see how much air you get....

My air filter was SOPPING WET,

In order for a car to start it needs fuel, air, and fuel. WATER even trace amounts in the fuel makes it difficult to start the car,

Again, pour some gas on the ground put some water in it, stir it around, try to light it....

Put some seafoam in your car, while its not running, try to start it....

See here is the thing, the car draws air THROUGH THE AIR FILTER, if there is water in the air filter the car will INHALE IT! The same way as if your lips are smack dab up against a sponge. I dont know how I can break it down anymore than that....

You must be right, a wet air filter cant be a big deal, because NOBODY ever talks about covering it up and keeping it dry right?? Because the only reason I want mine dry is because I want a ton of carbon build up, not because I have problems starting my car...

Yeah my intake valve leak like crazy also when I crank the car, because they suck in all kinds of air, matter of fact now that you say that my throttle body has a HUGE hole in it, Im gonna go patch all that up...

not to mention, the air filter is in the engine bay, i dont know about you guys, but when it rains, i close my window. why? ill get wet. lower pressure in the engine bay then the area surrounding the car. when im on the highway all the mist from the semis COVERS my car and me if the windows open. so is it not probable that it goes into your engine bay and soaks everything pretty good fro the bottom too? just a thought.

[scottohno]

not to mention, i think theres a kit on ebay for this.... it has an angled pipe though. i ran it slightly downward. its all shiny and chrome and has the vacuum port on it.

[espguitarist33]

that sounds like the silvertop one. is it an angle that will let you run the filter over by the battery?

[scottohno]

no it goes down and where the stock airbox goes

[YellowJacket]

Originally Posted by efx

I don't have that raised area where he tapped into, no big deal but I'm looking at it right now and I guess he used one from a different car.

I swapped my AFM way back ... it came from an 87+
You probably have an 85/86 AFM

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by scottohno

not to mention, the air filter is in the engine bay, i dont know about you guys, but when it rains, i close my window. why? ill get wet. lower pressure in the engine bay then the area surrounding the car. when im on the highway all the mist from the semis COVERS my car and me if the windows open. so is it not probable that it goes into your engine bay and soaks everything pretty good fro the bottom too? just a thought.

especially since the airflow direction is from the bottom up.

I wonder if using a rain cover actually also has a negative impact by blocking the vent too much, which is the purpose of the vent there.

As for the AFM mod... the throttle body has several vacuum ports on the top of it... some are pre and some are post TB plate... couldnt you just find a pre TB line and split it (if needed)?

[scottohno]

id just go to pepboys and buy the 3" piece of pipe with the vacuum nipple on it already for $5 and save the hassle.