85 na transmission/shifting questions

[como]

Okay- firstly, this is my first manual transmission ever, so go easy on me

#1
This car is a little bit "Slow" to "shift", in that if I dont force the shifter between gears, it can take up to a few seconds for it to drop into gear. This seems to be alleviated by revving the engine a little bit- I'm guessing its the syncros having a hard time getting things synced up. Input?

#2
Also, if I coast up to a red light and stop with the car in neutral, when I push the clutch in I cant shift it into first- this is normal, as its not syncro'd on first... but it can be hard to get it into 2nd without rolling the car back. Sometimes, I hear/feel a mild "crunch" (not to be confused with grind) in the shifter. A friend mentioned this may be the clutch not fully disengaging, and plausibly is related to #1

#3
Twice now (in 6+ months, its enough to pretend it isnt happening) I've felt and heard a horriffic grinding sound- identical to what I might hear when not fully pushing the car into gear before letting the clutch pedal out; only I felt it in the clutch pedal instead of the shifter. Both times the car was fully in gear, and both times it scared the **** out of me. IIRC, it was after I had just shifted into 2nd both times too, but I could be wrong there. Any ideas why it would do that?

Other than that, it seems to run fine. Every now and then I'll have a pop-out issue in reverse, but never in 5th, which is common for this car. Because I dont use reverse much, I'm not worried about that.

any input is welcome, I learn by taking things apart so I can't say I'm 100% on how a manual transmission works inside (I've got the theory, but I cant link it to physical parts without taking it apart, and I cant do that for another year at least)

[Gairloch]

#1 It's very likely that your synchros are getting tired. Revving the engine to the same rpm as the transmission, which takes some practice, is how you get around that without replacing/rebuilding the transmission. This is the art of double clutching. The process is a bit confusing so I suggest you google the procedure.

#2 I don't understand what you mean by not being able to shift into second without rolling the car. Are you trying to shift into second with the car stopped and having to let it roll backwards? It is possible that there is an issue with your clutch slave cylinder which is not allowing the clutch to be fully disengaged. If this is the case then pumping the clutch *may* allow clean shifts. I suggest trying that as a diagnostic procedure, not as a work around.

#3 Really the only thing that can cause that problem is the gear selector not fully being into position. Likely you thought it was there but really wasn't. If it was a mechanical issue it would be happening all the time.

[como]

Ahh, double clutching. I understand it in theory, but I'll never manage it in practice.

2) yes, going from neutral to 2nd (or third, really, but I always use 2nd since its so close to 1st) from a stop its really hard to get it into gear- once its there, it will move seamlessly and easily in and out of any of the gears. Almost like the syncro is aligning the set of gears, and then once its aligned its happy. (if the car is rolling, it will just fall into place when they align themselves, so I generally just put it into 1st before the car comes to a complete stop)
I'll try pumping it next time I'm out for a drive, but I never have issues with grinding gears so I always assume its fully disengaged.
Any idea on the grinding I got from the clutch pedal? Again its not a big deal (only happened twice) but its scary.

3) entirely possible. Although I'm told this car does have that problem with 5th gear due to some internal transmission component... I wouldnt be surprised if it wasnt all the way in reverse when it did that those few times.

[como]

Okay, update.

Pumping the clutch makes no difference, what-so-ever. It feels to me like the clutch doesnt begin to engage at all until I've got the pedal at least 4" off the floor, so I dont think that's the problem.

Today, I rolled to a stop in neutral. Pushed in the pedal, and shifted into 4th (for grins); it went hard. 3rd, hard. 2nd, hard- ALL without rolling the car or releasing the clutch at all. went into 1st a little hard, and then whatever needed doing had been done, as it could then shift freely into any other gear without resistance.
It makes a slight "crunch" noise going into *any* gear, 2nd being the worst, until it's been in 1st, then it shifts cleanly without noise or resistance.

Any ideas? It's really starting to bother me.

[lsgheero]

When was the last time you did a fluid change on the trans? If its been awhile I would do another, also use redline mt-90 it works great for solving synchro problems provided they arent completely toasted.

I had a lot of issues getting my car in gear a few months decided to change the clutch and the disc literally fell apart when I took it off the car... if you havent changed the clutch since you bought the car or in several years may be time todo it again. I bought the whole OEM kit (disc, pressure plate, throwout) from aaron at lithia and I think I only paid 200 something this was on my 88.

[ToyotaTechGeek]

sounds (to me) like you have got a few different problems.
1. you have got some slop in the shifter mechanisms. inspect the shifter cables, and the linkages and bushings underneath the car by the trans. clean and lube those spots.
2. sounds like you have got to adjust/bleed/evacuate your clutch hydraulic system. if your engagement takes place that high off of the floor, then there are some problems there!
and this may be a long shot, but inspect your engine/trans mounts. make sure you don't have a bunch of excessive play that may be causing some binding.

[como]

hmm.

Well, I bought the car in May, so I've only had it about half a year. Never changed the trans fluid, the clutch, etc. (clutch seems to be just fine, though)

I'll have to get under the car soon to look at the shift linkages and bushings, I checked out the ones inside the car when I was working on it this summer and all seemed well there.
I see no problems with where the clutch engages, though- it feels just about perfect.... but being the only manual I've ever driven, perhaps it would feel much better adjusted. Something for me to look into.

I *know* the engine mounts are shot. It's on my list. Never thought about the transmission mounts...

[mk15mr2]

I had similar problems. I bought those polly mounts from twosrus.com, put in the solid brass bushings. Had my fluid changed to that mt-90 listed earlier. It felt like a new car. It firmed up the mechanism, stopped the engine from pulling on the cables and made those gears spin oh so nicely. All relatively cheap and easy to do. Just time.

[scottohno]

im gonna get mt90. i ran lucas all summer in an effort to remove dirt. it has the same crunching problem and my mounts are shot. theyre in my cart at 2srus along with some other things. brass shifter bushings any good? and my clutch is fine

[scottohno]

by the way, como, go to your repair manual and adjust the clutch pedal accordingly.
if that doesnt work either the clutch master or slave cylinders are shot. do the master. i got mine for $35 on ebay.

[como]

Another update.
Now that it's below freezing out, this thing is almost impossible to drive without feeling like I'm hurting it. I think new fluid is in order, but I like the rest of these suggestions as well.

Brass bushings:
Twos R Us - Parts for Toyotas from Club MR2

I had ordered the entire "bushing kit", but not installed much of it.
Twos R Us - Parts for Toyotas from Club MR2
will any of those help with shifting? they're on my to-do list, but I've been busy.

Where can I get this mt-90, and how big of a pita is it to drain and fill? I might put that off since I want to replace the syncros next summer, but if it will help I'll just do it now and again later

[como]

Well, today she won't clutch at all. Stuck in the driveway!

Pumping the clutch makes no difference. I'm guessing theres a bunch of air in the line that's now too damn cold, but what else might it be? I'm ordering those brass bushings now.

[YellowJacket]

Originally Posted by como

Where can I get this mt-90, and how big of a pita is it to drain and fill? I might put that off since I want to replace the syncros next summer, but if it will help I'll just do it now and again later

Red Line Synthetic Oil 50304 - Red Line MT-90 Transmission Gear Oil - Overview - SummitRacing.com

2-3 quarts.... Its as easy as two bolts... remove the FILL bolt FIRST, then remove the drain bolt. When it stops draining, put the drain bolt back in and fill until it wont fill anymore. Put the fill bolt back on. Done.

[como]

Originally Posted by YellowJacket

Red Line Synthetic Oil 50304 - Red Line MT-90 Transmission Gear Oil - Overview - SummitRacing.com

2-3 quarts.... Its as easy as two bolts... remove the FILL bolt FIRST, then remove the drain bolt. When it stops draining, put the drain bolt back in and fill until it wont fill anymore. Put the fill bolt back on. Done.

cool. any additives I should get while I'm at it? maybe buy some time on those dying syncros?

[YellowJacket]

Originally Posted by como

cool. any additives I should get while I'm at it? maybe buy some time on those dying syncros?

I am not a fan of additives and I cannot recommend any from experience either.
I can say I have read a lot of good posts about people who got significant improvement just with the change to MT-90 so I would just start with that.

[como]

Well, it turns out my clutch res is completely empty, so that's probably behind all these shinanigains.
I'll fill and bleed it out this weekend, and if I can get mt-90 locally I might find some time to do that as well (sounds easy enough);
Hopefully my brass shifter bushings will be in by then.

[scottohno]

be sure you open the fill hole first.

when i did mine, what i believe to be the fill hole ws rusted shut somehow and stuck. i did however find an auxilary fill if you need one. its on the drivers side near where the battery is located.

if you use this one, its a straight up hole, so you have to measure how much came out.

this was 6months ago i ran some lucas oil thru it to clean it out and suspend more dirt before i got the mt90. i never did get round to the mt90

[scottohno]

oh btw. the mounts you want are the motor mounts, not the suspension mount bushings.

theyre under "engine" at twos r us and they look similar, but im pretty sure thats a suspension bushing kit for ur control arms and stuff. sorry if you got confused.

but hey look at it this way... now you have poly suspension bushings too!

[como]

Oh, I bought that whole kit back when I got the car- It's been an ongoing project to install them all as I go. I *do* need new engine mounts, but I want SOFT ones, oem or softer, which are next to impossible to get.
I'm starting to think that the poly bushings I have put in for the steering rack, sway bars, etc are part of the reason this car is so damn loud. I may find softer ones.

[como]

Tried to pump up the pressure again last night, now it's got none at all. Sounds like I've got a leak- I'm guessing some water got into the fluid and froze, now that its freaking cold.
I hope its a line and not something like the slave cylinder.