4agze to the max

oh_schnapps · 03-17-2006, 01:44 PM

dose the head off of a 4age work on a 4agze if so what are the differences. dose the 4agze have bigger ports or something. I'm looking to get a head of some sort and port the **** out of it to see just how much power these 4agze motors can make. the build will have: hks forged stroker crank, hks forged top end, over bored to 20 over, hks cams, hks cam gears, hks timing belt, custom made crank pulley and sc pulley. sc12 will be replaced with sc14 (17psi mod), hks f-con to get the most out of the 550cc injectors and sc14. custom exhaust from a race shop near hear 3.5" tubes all the way (no cat, no muffler) this motor will have to use 108, no pump gas for this beast. but after its all said and done i want to see about 300-350hp at the wheels

, making it the fastes mk1 around. also the build looks to cost somewhere around $8,000 and I'm doing the work, no shop guy is just doing it for me. I have custom motor mounts that i will be selling out after the prototype is done. they use a damper and increase rigidity to motor sway by more than 80%, so no more cracked motor mounts.

SpeedballTrix · 03-17-2006, 02:24 PM

Sounds like a pretty serious build.
You're not going to touch 350rwhp though.
If you get 300 at the wheels Ill be very impressed, but with that list of mods I can see it being possible.

If you're going with straight race gas, why not upgrade the valvetrain and tune it to run more revs?

MR-Fixer · 03-17-2006, 02:46 PM

Some rich dude from Texas tricked out a 4age to 450 HP and set a landspeed record (for that class of engine) with it on Salt Lake Flats.

For starters you'd need a 7 rib 4age block, with the larger crankshaft: 4agze's come this way, and so do some later NA's. The 7 tibs make the block flex less under high torque.

The you'd need forged rods, and pistons. The N.A. rods and pistons are too weak for serious boost.

You might as well start off with a 4agze long block. Since forged pistons and rods would cost more than a Jspec 4agze off Ebay.

I have a thread on a SC14 upgrade in the boosted section for MkI's in case you are interested.

chdesign · 03-19-2006, 10:02 AM

The 4AGE and the 4AGZE heads are the same they are both largeport heads. Its not until you get into the 90+ years that the 4AGE head design changed and they went with a smaller port but these were only found in Japan and the Geo Prism GSi with the small port 4AG

CpuZapper · 03-23-2006, 01:04 AM

There isn't a lot to be gained from porting the intake side, as it's already too big. The exhaust side can use a little polishing, but thats about it. The SC-14 won't make 350 rwhp, and the fcon will not be the right choice. You'll melt your mill. Get a real standalone like Megasquirt: it'll run fuel and ignition and let you tune it properly. Stock Toyota GZE pistons are plenty for your application, but forged rods are a must along with ARP fasteners. 3.5" exhaust is too big, all you need is 3 max. With my worn stock mounts, and 170 hp turbo'd NA I only see 1/2" of movement, and with filled mounts I can't really even see it on video, but I'd be curious to see what kind of mount you're thinking of.

nick.parker · 12-02-2006, 05:00 AM

oh_schnapps you are unfortunately dreaming about those hp levels, but no problem you will figure more stuff out as you try it. While its true the larger displacement of the SC14, enables fairly high boost levels, it is still too inefficient for serious power. But it can still give a great amount of power for a street setup, and very strong low mid torque.

My daily driven AW11 has an SC14 setup and has run 19psi with 267degree cams, (although it current runs 15psi with a different cam setup), it has a good water to air intercooling system, 60mm throttle, completely redone 70mm custom plumbing and a 2.5" exhaust, high flow cat, custom ECU , 550cc injectors (to allow for future mods), walbro pump to be safe, beefy clutch.....etc..etc. On 15psi with the stock exhaust and a poor tune it made exactly 150rwhp . On 19psi and with a better tune and the exhaust system I don't think I wouldl see more than 180/190rwhp - can let you know in a few weeks. BUT, don't let this stop you, my car had FANTASTIC low end torque on 19psi with the stock cams, I would not be lying to say much like a decent V8. When I went to the 267's the car lost the ridiculous low end, but then the mid and top end were better - the car didn't run out of puff until 6500rpm...

Some info on my setup: http://www.e-wire.net.au/~nrparker/M...new_engine.htm

Cheers, Nick

aaron7 · 01-12-2007, 12:06 PM

Good to know the GE and GZE head are the same... as on my gze someone half-assed ported it and I'd like to go stock!

03-17-2006, 01:44 PM	#1 (permalink)
oh_schnapps .::OH .::schnapps Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: fremont, ca Posts: 32 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	4agze to the max dose the head off of a 4age work on a 4agze if so what are the differences. dose the 4agze have bigger ports or something. I'm looking to get a head of some sort and port the **** out of it to see just how much power these 4agze motors can make. the build will have: hks forged stroker crank, hks forged top end, over bored to 20 over, hks cams, hks cam gears, hks timing belt, custom made crank pulley and sc pulley. sc12 will be replaced with sc14 (17psi mod), hks f-con to get the most out of the 550cc injectors and sc14. custom exhaust from a race shop near hear 3.5" tubes all the way (no cat, no muffler) this motor will have to use 108, no pump gas for this beast. but after its all said and done i want to see about 300-350hp at the wheels , making it the fastes mk1 around. also the build looks to cost somewhere around $8,000 and I'm doing the work, no shop guy is just doing it for me. I have custom motor mounts that i will be selling out after the prototype is done. they use a damper and increase rigidity to motor sway by more than 80%, so no more cracked motor mounts.

12-02-2006, 05:00 AM	#6 (permalink)
nick.parker No Skills Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 7 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	oh_schnapps you are unfortunately dreaming about those hp levels, but no problem you will figure more stuff out as you try it. While its true the larger displacement of the SC14, enables fairly high boost levels, it is still too inefficient for serious power. But it can still give a great amount of power for a street setup, and very strong low mid torque. My daily driven AW11 has an SC14 setup and has run 19psi with 267degree cams, (although it current runs 15psi with a different cam setup), it has a good water to air intercooling system, 60mm throttle, completely redone 70mm custom plumbing and a 2.5" exhaust, high flow cat, custom ECU , 550cc injectors (to allow for future mods), walbro pump to be safe, beefy clutch.....etc..etc. On 15psi with the stock exhaust and a poor tune it made exactly 150rwhp . On 19psi and with a better tune and the exhaust system I don't think I wouldl see more than 180/190rwhp - can let you know in a few weeks. BUT, don't let this stop you, my car had FANTASTIC low end torque on 19psi with the stock cams, I would not be lying to say much like a decent V8. When I went to the 267's the car lost the ridiculous low end, but then the mid and top end were better - the car didn't run out of puff until 6500rpm... Some info on my setup: http://www.e-wire.net.au/~nrparker/M...new_engine.htm Cheers, Nick Last edited by nick.parker; 12-03-2006 at 12:11 AM.. Reason: add more detail

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03-17-2006, 02:24 PM	#2 (permalink)
SpeedballTrix Foul Weather Drifter Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 871 Thanks: 4 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Sounds like a pretty serious build. You're not going to touch 350rwhp though. If you get 300 at the wheels Ill be very impressed, but with that list of mods I can see it being possible. If you're going with straight race gas, why not upgrade the valvetrain and tune it to run more revs?

03-17-2006, 02:46 PM	#3 (permalink)
MR-Fixer Censored *** censors Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Censored Posts: 95 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0%** )	Some rich dude from Texas tricked out a 4age to 450 HP and set a landspeed record (for that class of engine) with it on Salt Lake Flats. For starters you'd need a 7 rib 4age block, with the larger crankshaft: 4agze's come this way, and so do some later NA's. The 7 tibs make the block flex less under high torque. The you'd need forged rods, and pistons. The N.A. rods and pistons are too weak for serious boost. You might as well start off with a 4agze long block. Since forged pistons and rods would cost more than a Jspec 4agze off Ebay. I have a thread on a SC14 upgrade in the boosted section for MkI's in case you are interested.

03-19-2006, 10:02 AM	#4 (permalink)
chdesign No Skills Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 6 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The 4AGE and the 4AGZE heads are the same they are both largeport heads. Its not until you get into the 90+ years that the 4AGE head design changed and they went with a smaller port but these were only found in Japan and the Geo Prism GSi with the small port 4AG

03-23-2006, 01:04 AM	#5 (permalink)
CpuZapper RallyRacer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 482 Thanks: 7 Thanked 25 Times in 22 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	There isn't a lot to be gained from porting the intake side, as it's already too big. The exhaust side can use a little polishing, but thats about it. The SC-14 won't make 350 rwhp, and the fcon will not be the right choice. You'll melt your mill. Get a real standalone like Megasquirt: it'll run fuel and ignition and let you tune it properly. Stock Toyota GZE pistons are plenty for your application, but forged rods are a must along with ARP fasteners. 3.5" exhaust is too big, all you need is 3 max. With my worn stock mounts, and 170 hp turbo'd NA I only see 1/2" of movement, and with filled mounts I can't really even see it on video, but I'd be curious to see what kind of mount you're thinking of.

01-12-2007, 12:06 PM	#7 (permalink)
aaron7 omg jdm Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: MA, USA Posts: 121 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Good to know the GE and GZE head are the same... as on my gze someone half-assed ported it and I'd like to go stock!