35SFGE "the frankenstein"

[Key-Lay]

What all is needed to make the "35SFGE" Engine And is the Frankenstein worth it? Or is it better to just swap a 3sge in? I'm looking for a parts list and maybe a down time estimate, how long would it take to make the "35SFGE" vs how long would it take to swap? Would the entire engine need to be removed to build the frankenstein? Is there a "building frankenstein" thread some ware on here already?

[TomsMR2]

what?

[como]

I really wanted to ask that, but I'm so new here it's entirely plausible he's talking about something and I just wouldn't know it :-\

[MR-3vz]

well I think your talking about the 5sgte or 5sge. If your talking about taking the block of a 5sfe and the head of a 3sge or 3sgte. 5s would be the revision of the block and the gte or ge would be the type of head. You would need the block of a 5s, i think there was something about certain blocks having odd water jackets, and the head of a 3sg(t)e motor. You would also need the electronics for the 5sfe because i think the gte and ge motors use AFM for load sensing instead of MAP. Youll also have to find out how your going to deal with the difference in fueling. Also if you plan on going turbo ull need to find out how your going to lower your Compression Ratio. I think TTE had a 1.2mm MLS headgasket but im not sure if they are around anymore. Well so far thats what i know off the top of my head, feel free to ask more questions. Oh yea, ive also built one of these motors for a Celica I had back in the day.

-J

[mrturrari]

Originally Posted by MR-3vz

You would also need the electronics for the 5sfe because i think the gte and ge motors use AFM for load sensing instead of MAP.

Other way around... you need the electronics to go with the head you use.

[killermillermr2]

I have been on Ebay looking for 5sfte parts and they have lower comp. pistons for this setup. they are CP pistons and come in 9.0:1 and 8.5:1 compression

And that is the greatest engine make I have ever seen

[YELLOW_MR2]

sorry i feel so noobie for asking this but what is a 35sfge..ive never heard of that

[Sang]

Originally Posted by YELLOW_MR2

sorry i feel so noobie for asking this but what is a 35sfge..ive never heard of that

Because that's a misnomer.

"F" and "G" refer to the head, and "S" refers to the block.

A 5SFE block with 3SGE head would be referred to a 5SGE, or 5SGTE.

As far as pistons, CP sells 8.5:1 CR pistons for a 5S block. 9.0:1 for a 3S with 5S crank.

[YELLOW_MR2]

That helped thanks and hmmm i didnt know you can put a 3s head on a 5s

[killermillermr2]

thank you for the piston correction.

[MR-3vz]

Well it really becomes a pain in the but to use all the G(T)E electornics as it would require alot of rework of the harness, but then again i was doing this in a Celica. Plus I went with an aftermarket ecu (Wolf 3d, I wonder what happened to them).

Not only that you cant say put a 3s head on a 5s block. As I stated earlier 3s and 5s is the block, not the had, as there was a 3sfe and 3sge. The F would be the design of the head, with the F series heads being narrow valve angle, 15* if i remember correctly, and the G series with a 45* angle. The wider the valve angle the better it is for top end air flow. The "E" in FE or GE would be that the head is Fuel Injected. "T" would be that the motor is turbo charged and "Z" would be supercharged.

-J

[Key-Lay]

Ah okay now that I've better understand the engine codes What I meant by "35SFGTE" Was just the pice-mail engine, what I want to do is get the 3S Head on a 5S Block and then turbo it. XD

[wagonis]

Is there a benefit to using the 5S block instead of the 3S? My 5SFE is still running strong at 177K (well, once I fix the water pump it will) so I still can't justify doing anything to it, but once I am ready I was going to do a 3SGTE swap. So like I asked, would there be a benefit in keeping the 5S block and throwing the GTE top half on it?

[Sang]

They'll handle more power over a 3S, for the most part. Less prone to cracking in high boost, high power situations. Stock bore is 87mm and stroke is longer for more displacement. Or...you could use a 3S crank in a 5S block for less displacement.

But if your power goals aren't that excessive, you can use a 3S block no prob.

[MR-3vz]

Well that is two fold... The obvious reason is the added displacement. But the downside is the rod/stroke ratio with stock rods and longer stroke. The motor wasnt made to be a high reving motor so the r/s ratio was geared towards more torque. I wouldnt use a 3s crank in a 5s block because that would defeat the purpose going with a 5s block. I would infact use a 5s crank in a 3s block and that would net a displacement increase of ~.1L and would allow the use of the 3s rods with some work, and would net a better R/S ratio and allow for better revving of the motor. The main benifit of going with the 5s block is the 2.2L of displacement.

-J

[Sang]

Originally Posted by MR-3vz

I wouldnt use a 3s crank in a 5s block because that would defeat the purpose going with a 5s block. I would infact use a 5s crank in a 3s block and that would net a displacement increase of ~.1L and would allow the use of the 3s rods with some work, and would net a better R/S ratio and allow for better revving of the motor. The main benifit of going with the 5s block is the 2.2L of displacement.

-J

No, maybe for YOU, the benefit would be adding displacement. Believe it or not...there are people that would prefer to use a 5S block for it's strength, not displacement. The slightly bigger bore is nil as far as increasing displacement.

And as far as rr's are concerned, a 3S crank in a 5S block is no different than a 3sgte. They have the same effective rod length of 137.9mm giving a rr of 1.6

Doing what you said, 3S block with 5S crank with 3S rods...yes that gives more displacment, but at the cost of a worse rr of 1.5, not better as you said. And add to that, a 5S block and 5S crank has the same rr as a stroked 3S block, 1.5

[wagonis]

I don't know that I am going to start messing with modding internals, so the question is more towards stock 5S block vs. stock 3S block. From what I assumed earlier on is that the 5S blocks were stronger (read that somewhere but could be wrong) and the bigger displacement meant more boost with less risk. Am I right or should I just stfu and go sit in the corner?

[Sang]

Originally Posted by wagonis

I don't know that I am going to start messing with modding internals, so the question is more towards stock 5S block vs. stock 3S block.

If you are running a rev1 5s block, you'd need to make a provision for a knock sensor and other small modifications to the block. Stock 5S rods are garbage, but you could use 3S rods. But then again, that requires you machine the rod journals to fit.

Stock for stock, 3S block > 5S block. Modded vs Modded, 5S block > 3S block.

Just swap in a 3SGTE and boost happily. Spend $50 for an rpm swithc from summit to control TVIS and you'll have more mid-range grunt if that's what you were seeking by looking for more displacement.

Originally Posted by wagonis

From what I assumed earlier on is that the 5S blocks were stronger (read that somewhere but could be wrong) and the bigger displacement meant more boost with less risk.

Yes, the blocks themselves are stronger. But the stock internals are weaker. And the extra displacement wont affect how much you can boost, but rather how quickly you get there.

[wagonis]

I gotcha, thanks for the clarification Sang.

[MR-3vz]

Sorry I was thinking of an old build where custom rods were used... But to each his/her own when it comes to the reasoning behind going with the 5s block. Im just saying one of the more obvious reason behind using the 5s bottom end is displacement, not to be confused with the only benifit.

-J