Rebuilding an Engine versus Bolt Ons

[visuvius]

I have a 93 Turbo that has 160K miles on it at this point. When I bought it in February the owner claimed that the engine and turbo had been rebuilt at some point but there was no way to verify that. A compression test showed 120 across all four cylinders. This is way low but I can't tell if its because of low compression pistons or because its just an old ass engine.

I'm about to put some work into the car and what I want to know is, if I add all the bolt ons I'm considering, and I going to blow up my engine because of the added power? I talked to one local shop and the guy said with all the parts I'm adding, he was worried I might blow a piston or something. This is what I was going to install:

- ATS Stage 2 CT27 combo kit
- Clutch
- Berk, ATS Racing or SMAX intercooler, haven't decided on this yet

So now the guy has me worried and he's got me considering doing an engine rebuild. He mentioned a new camshaft and boring out the heads for around $4500. Its a reputable shop around here and they've worked on lots of MR2s so I don't think he is bull****ting me I just want to know if you guys think he is right?

Should I go with an engine rebuild or should I add the parts and hope for the best? I'll be honest, my biggest concern and goal is long term stability/reliability. Its just that adding the parts I want PLUS an engine rebuild takes me a bit over my budget. Thanks for any advice.

[Maruki-kun]

grab Baktasht's Gen 3 swap for $2500, save yourself time and money, You'll get some nifty upgrades, and more power then what you were looking at anyways, plus reliability.

[Bak@EMSPowered]

Originally Posted by Ku-sama

grab Baktasht's Gen 3 swap for $2500, save yourself time and money, You'll get some nifty upgrades, and more power then what you were looking at anyways, plus reliability.

Yup, check it out here: Gen3 3SGTE Swap (Including LSD Transmission) FREE SHIPPING - $2,500.00 : EMSPowered, High Quality, Great Service, Low Prices

[o6spdracer]

Are you thinking about a swap Hamid? Emissions aren't too big of an issue, well you don't have a dp so it wouldn't matter anyways! hahaha. You could swap and then just part out the engine and trans you already have to recooperate some of the money and spend it on more parts!

BTW, baktasht is a good guy, even when he is busy he manages to call me back to answer all the stupid questions I have.

[Sang]

Originally Posted by visuvius

He mentioned a new camshaft and boring out the heads for around $4500.

Bored out what in the head? The valve seats for oversized valves? You can easily check the camshafts by removing the valve cover.

[visuvius]

Originally Posted by o6spdracer

Are you thinking about a swap Hamid? Emissions aren't too big of an issue, well you don't have a dp so it wouldn't matter anyways! hahaha. You could swap and then just part out the engine and trans you already have to recooperate some of the money and spend it on more parts!

BTW, baktasht is a good guy, even when he is busy he manages to call me back to answer all the stupid questions I have.

I have no idea what to do at this point. Now with this option to do a swap I'm just confused. There are a few options at this point:

1) Install the bolt on mods on my current engine, ATS CT27 Stage 2, Intercooler, Clutch, Suspension

2) Get an engine rebuild from a local shop and install the above bolt ons which would take me over my budget but give me a pretty badass build

3) Get the Gen3 Swap and maybe an Intercooler. Upgrade Suspension.

Initially my plan was do to with Option 1 but then like I said I talked to the shop and the guy was worried about my engine being able to support the mods. Right now option 3 is looking kind of nice but I'm worried about buying used. My LSD transmission is fine right now so I don't need that either. Also, I wouldn't really reach my HP goal of 275-300 would I?

[Bak@EMSPowered]

Originally Posted by visuvius

I have no idea what to do at this point. Now with this option to do a swap I'm just confused. There are a few options at this point:

1) Install the bolt on mods on my current engine, ATS CT27 Stage 2, Intercooler, Clutch, Suspension

2) Get an engine rebuild from a local shop and install the above bolt ons which would take me over my budget but give me a pretty badass build

3) Get the Gen3 Swap and maybe an Intercooler. Upgrade Suspension.

Initially my plan was do to with Option 1 but then like I said I talked to the shop and the guy was worried about my engine being able to support the mods. Right now option 3 is looking kind of nice but I'm worried about buying used. My LSD transmission is fine right now so I don't need that either. Also, I wouldn't really reach my HP goal of 275-300 would I?

On a Gen2 with a CT27 you probably won't be reaching your power goals without pushing your setup to it's limit, which then takes you down the path of reliability issues.

In my opinion, if you're looking at sticking with your Gen2 setup, don't bother rebuilding it. Just run it till it dies and then at that point get a Gen3 swap. Totally stock on a Gen3 without any upgrades at all other than an exhaust and a boost controller you can hit your power goals without any problems, and still stay fairly reliable. The swaps we sell are inspected, compression checked, come with everything you'd need, and are under 30k miles.

[o6spdracer]

^So to sum it up drive it till it blows up? hahaha.

I think reliability is always the top priority. Making 275-300hp is great, but if you blow the motor doing it, what is the point. Baktash makes sense but this is your only car. So you can't really afford to have it down for that long. Don't make a hasty decision, you do still have some time.

These are the things I would consider:
1. How long can you have the car out of commission and what other method of transportation would you have during that time. This was one of the first things I had to consider because when the motor and trans were being serviced on my 2, I anticipated it to take 1 and a half months. Turned out to be 3 months, luckily I had a daily.
2. How much are you willing to spend or better question, how much can you spend? Remember that little things come up all the time when you are under the car. Could be something as small as replacing a hose, hopefully not something too expensive.

We've driven around a few times now, and you do have a pretty heavy foot. I don't know how content you are going to be with 275-300hp and we've talked about this in the past. It sounds like enough now, but its never enough! haha. Back to the point, Baktash points out a great point, you will be pushing the ct27 and your set up to the limit; increasing your chances of blowing the motor.

Maybe someone can help out with this. His compression is low (120), but is even across the board. Is this a sign of a 'weak' motor or is it because of the low compression pistons (installed by previous owner). I think, and this is only a thought, that because the compression does not vary vy +5 that it is within range. Its very difficult to tell what has been done during the rebuild by the previous owner because there was no documentation of what was and was not done.

[visuvius]

I'm okay with not having the car for 3 to 4 weeks, obviously the less down time the better but I'm off from work a couple weeks at the end of the year and thats when I was hoping on getting the work done. But you're right this is an issue and I'll have some problems here but I don't think I'm going to let not having a second car stop me, I'll just have to bug my wife more I guess.

My budget right now is $8000 MAX, I can't justify spending more than that right now and I'd actually like to keep it more like $6-7k. Again, I want to get this done right. Goals are 275-300 reliable HP.

Hahah yeah I do kind of have a heavy foot but to be honest, these last few months I've been babying the car and have gotten used to basically just cruising around at under the speed limit lol. I will totally be content if I reach my HP goals.

I kind of like the "run it till it dies" option.

[lucky_charms]

the gen 3 would be your best bet in my opnion but thats just me cus if u get the gen 3 u can still run it till it dies knowing u have a back up

[Maruki-kun]

Originally Posted by visuvius

I'm okay with not having the car for 3 to 4 weeks, obviously the less down time the better but I'm off from work a couple weeks at the end of the year and thats when I was hoping on getting the work done. But you're right this is an issue and I'll have some problems here but I don't think I'm going to let not having a second car stop me, I'll just have to bug my wife more I guess.

My budget right now is $8000 MAX, I can't justify spending more than that right now and I'd actually like to keep it more like $6-7k. Again, I want to get this done right. Goals are 275-300 reliable HP.

Hahah yeah I do kind of have a heavy foot but to be honest, these last few months I've been babying the car and have gotten used to basically just cruising around at under the speed limit lol. I will totally be content if I reach my HP goals.

I kind of like the "run it till it dies" option.

your best bet is the Gen 3 swap. and Baktasht's swap means you just drop your old trans and motor, then just bolt this one up and stick the wiring in it. with a $50 MBC you'd see 300HP like it was a factory option, absolutely no extra tuning required. it would make your goals happen ,and for WAY less then your budget.

[Levi_]

Originally Posted by Ku-sama

with a MBC+intercooler+downpipe+exhaust+intake+FCD+Boost gauge you'd see 300HP

Just thought I'd fix that for you.

I still agree, the gen3 is the way to go, and your mechanic doesn't know what he is talking about in terms of modding paths.

Originally Posted by visuvius

He mentioned a new camshaft and boring out the heads for around $4500

Well besides that being an outrageous price, it won't net you alot in terms of power. Is your motor bone stock? If so, I'd recommend turning up the boost to 15 lbs, getting the better sidemount intercooler, and a 3" exhaust/downpipe (which you can use later if you decide to go gen3) and an intake.

I mean get the basic bolt-ons before you decide to upgrade your turbo, and those bolt-ons really do transform the car, powerwise. I don't think you will break a piston, I'd say its more likely that you will break your headgasket, but running more power will only make it happen sooner as opposed to never happen. Either way, 160k isn't that bad if you have properly maintained it.

Also if you haven't read the power primer,
3S-GTE Power Primer

[visuvius]

Well, the Gen3 option was looking very appealing until it was just revealed to me that its not a legal mod and I'd have all sorts of emissions issues here in California. That SUCKS.

The car currently has a Greddy SP Exhaust, Berk Downpipe and a mbc set to 15 psi.

I think I'm going to go with the "add the bolt ons and run it till it dies option".

[Bak@EMSPowered]

You'll pass emissions just fine in California. I lived there for a few years and had an MR2 while there with a turbo upgrade, exhaust upgrade and no catalytic convertors and passed just fine.

The only thing that won't pass for the Gen3 is the visual inspection if they inspector looks for an EGR valve. Most inspection tech's don't even know what to look for. In most cases they'll pass you without any problems.

[warhawk]

Originally Posted by baktasht

You'll pass emissions just fine in California. I lived there for a few years and had an MR2 while there with a turbo upgrade, exhaust upgrade and no catalytic convertors and passed just fine.

The only thing that won't pass for the Gen3 is the visual inspection if they inspector looks for an EGR valve. Most inspection tech's don't even know what to look for. In most cases they'll pass you without any problems.

whoa wait, so it's possible to pass the sniffer test without any cats??

[Bak@EMSPowered]

Originally Posted by warhawk

whoa wait, so it's possible to pass the sniffer test without any cats??

Yup, lots of folks do. Just gotta make sure your car is running well and healthy. Helps to use good fuel and make sure the car is fully warmed up too. I usually dont turn off the car while i'm waiting for emisions tests... helps a little.... But to answer your question, yes, it's very possible to pass without any cats at all. A lot of people do.

[mattdouken]

sorry to be off topic, but this question is for baktasht.....,what is the wiring difference and setup difference from putting a 3rd gen 3sgte into a 91 N/A then a 2nd gen 3sgte?

i know how to do a 2nd gen swap.

[Bak@EMSPowered]

Originally Posted by mattdouken

sorry to be off topic, but this question is for baktasht.....,what is the wiring difference and setup difference from putting a 3rd gen 3sgte into a 91 N/A then a 2nd gen 3sgte?

i know how to do a 2nd gen swap.

Not too much is different just a few wires. Of course the ECU's are totally different, make sure your swap comes with a Gen3 ECU. Also, make sure that your swap comes with a complete and uncut harness. Otherwise, it's a pretty straight forward swap, and you get a much better setup with the Gen3. Other than ecu/wiring, everything else will bolt up just the same. Motor mounts, intercooler, intake, exhaust, shifter cables, etc... will all bolt up the same as a Gen2.

[mattdouken]

i guess a 3rd gen would be the better choice for reliable 275 whp with supporting mods.

[Bak@EMSPowered]

Originally Posted by mattdouken

i guess a 3rd gen would be the better choice for reliable 275 whp with supporting mods.

Yup. A Gen3 will do 275whp daily without a hiccup.