Brembo Brakes

[gray91turbo]

I've got a 91t and i want to get a nice set of Brembo brakes (new rotors, calips, the likes) but i don't know what website has them, any help?

[metheores]

they are sooo big, sooo expensive. IMO stoptech will be better or stock, but here's what i found Brembo Brakes High Performance Brake Systems

[kbrew8991]

what are you doing that the 93+ stuff isn't enough with aggressive pads, fluid & cooling ducts?

[gray91turbo]

I'm going to be doing some heavy track use and with 400+ hp I want stopping power. I don't know a lot about brake systems so maybe you could help me out.

[kbrew8991]

hmm - I'd have to check with the really hardcore track guys over on the other board to see what brakes they'd go with at that power level...

I want to say even J&H had just 93+ Turbo brakes with Porterfield R4E pads, Motul 600, and cooling ducts though....

[gray91turbo]

If you could find that out and where they bought them that would be great, thanks so much!

[kbrew8991]

MR2 Owners Club Message Board&#8482

[karl]

one thing to keep in mind with the brembos is that if you intend to keep the e-brake (and consequently the stock rear calipers), you will sacrifice braking performance, period. the stock rear calipers are too small hydraulically to work with the vast majority of brembo calipers available. the ones on the EVO/STi are way too big to pair with MR2 rear calipers/oversized rotors. they'll shift your brake bias so far forward you won't even be able to get back to stock by completely removing the proportioning valve. you won't be fully utilizing the rear tires to stop the car, and it will not stop as well. the brakes need to be tuned to use the tires effectively.

if you don't know how to calculate brake torque from piston size, line pressure, lever arm and pad mu, you may be looking at big $$ to have someone engineer it for you.

i've yet to see a BBK on the market for the MR2 that's balanced properly.

[gray91turbo]

So what type of brake kits would you recommend? I don't necessarily have to have "brembo's". I just want good stopping power.

[metheores]

I heard stop tech is good, but that's what i heard...

[Gairloch]

gray, when you say heavy track use what do you mean?

99.99999% of all people that want bigger braking only need to invest in better pads. If you have a need for better heat tolerance, as in road course racing, then a bigger caliper is perhaps justified but rarely do you need to go beyond the '93T calipers.

[F_R_O_G]

Gairloch is right for track use get some semi-metts on all 4 brakes or if you use it only for track get full metal pads. bigger brakes only disapate heat faster they don't actully help you stop untill the roters heat up. the best way to stop quicker is tires and suspension. change your brake fluid often and get a good brand. if you still have problems then upgrade.

[imncrxtc]

Im running 4 piston Rotora's and massive rotors on my 91 turbo. Stops on a dime. Ive never heard of them, they came with the car. Looks killer!

[gray91turbo]

I see, so 93+ calipers should do the trick with some aggressive pads? Sounds good enough! Thanks for all the helps guys, really appreciate it

[karl]

the global-Z kit is probably the best balanced kit out there, it uses 315mm front rotors from the LS400, 325mm rear rotors, which are front rotors from the RX-8 (with a hub hole adapter ring), and uses the stock 93t rear calipers with 91' 300ZX 4-piston front calipers and adapter brackets for the calipers at both ends.

it's pretty close to stock balance, at 66.3%F, 33.7%R (stock is ~65/35), and you could tweak that a little bit by removing the stock proportioning valve and installing an adjustable unit. the stock turbo prop valve reduces rear line pressure by 16% once system pressure goes above about 900psi.

Originally Posted by gairloch

ray, when you say heavy track use what do you mean?

99.99999% of all people that want bigger braking only need to invest in better pads. If you have a need for better heat tolerance, as in road course racing, then a bigger caliper is perhaps justified but rarely do you need to go beyond the '93T calipers.

wolfkatz stated on the other board that they're able to fade the PF ST143 pads with 93t brake system at only ~300whp levels, which is why he developed his BBK. could be driving style. i don't know.. doing the bias calculations on his BBK though show that it moves the bias about 7% more to the front, which would increase stopping distance. it's undoubtedly more resistant to fade, but it's not using the rear tires to their fullest. unless he's modifying the lexus monoblocks he's using *shrug*. all i know for sure is that the calipers he has pictured on his website utilize 43mm pistons, while the stock 93t calipers use 36mm pistons.

Originally Posted by imncrxtc

Im running 4 piston Rotora's and massive rotors on my 91 turbo. Stops on a dime. Ive never heard of them, they came with the car. Looks killer!

any more info? "stops on a dime" is fantastic, but it would be helpful to know just how big that dime actually is. like i said, most BBKs that use 4-piston front calipers shift the brake bias toward the front by quite a bit, which reduces the amount of work the rear tires are doing to stop the car, which INCREASES stopping distances.

when you're looking at calipers for the track too, it's important to note that not all calipers are created equal. "monoblock" is more a marketing term than anything else.

Originally Posted by carroll smith, one of the foremost race engineers of the 20th century:

The current generation of Monobloc after market calipers from the reputable manufacturers are at best only about as stiff as conventional two piece units – at ambient temperature.

There is a rub. Brake calipers, especially those attached to hard driven high performance vehicles, do not operate at ambient temperature. Caliper operating temperatures can and do often exceed 300 degrees F on high performance street vehicles. – at which point the Aluminum bridge of the monobloc has lost more than half of its strength while the steel bolts in a two piece unit are unfazed. In fact, steel is essentially unaffected until around 200 degrees F where it begins to gain in strength. Steel gains 25 to 32 percent in strength when it peaks at about 400 degrees F...

...Aftermarket monoblocs have significantly less strength and stiffness than the current Formula One units – let alone the unobtanium ones of days gone by. It means, if you want to spend a lot more money for a good monobloc racing caliper, if it happens to be available with piston areas that suit your car, you can have a trick monobloc caliper that will almost certainly flex more than an optimum two piece unit and is a few ounces lighter. It also means, if you are able to use a monobloc caliper designed for a production application made either by squeeze or semi-solid forging, cost might be comparable but any claim of them being intrinsically better than a well designed two piece caliper with bolts is simply not true. It is pure marketing hype when a commercially available monbloc caliper, where the manufacturing strategy was aimed at reducing costs to produce a fixed multi piston design, is represented as better than every other design in the aftermarket.

that's why i pointed to the global-Z kit earlier in the post as well.. it uses aluminum 2-piece calipers made by sumitomo for the 300ZX and R32 skyline. there's a wide variety of pads available (pads for the 91 and 93t front calipers are somewhat limited) and the calipers are pretty cheap- on the order of about $150ea remanned including core. i don't know who you'd contact to purchase the caliper brackets- you'd likely be well off to try contacting someone from the australian boards, since i know a couple of those guys had the brackets reproduced. i've seen the GZ kits pop up occasionally on ebay too.. their kit only includes rotors and brackets, you have to source your own calipers.

if you have to upgrade to the 93t brakes anyway though, you may as well spend a few extra $$ and go with something that's over-engineered.

[kbrew8991]

thats the consensus I've gathered

stock parts are easier to maintain as well no waiting for company XYZ to send you some stupid little part when you can hit the forums and find it (new or used), call the dealer and get it, or even run down to your local parts store and get it if you're lucky

[baktasht]

Check out our line of big brake kits. Full Brake Kits : EMSPowered, High Quality, Great Service, Low Prices

[karl]

i've only been able to find one caliper that's even remotely close to the stock front caliper piston sizes too.. makes designing this stuff that much harder. if i can ever get together the $800 or so it'll take to do this, i'll post up my setup when i'm done.

i've been eyeing the rear drum parking brake setup used on the 300ZX as well..



looks like it's attached to the splash shield and the whole assembly just bolts to the knuckle.. i wonder how hard it would be to coerce something like that onto the MR2 rear knuckle, since that would open up a whole new world of brakes

[mr2magic]

Damn Backtasht! Did you have to link to those BBK?? They are pure sex and the colour of the caliper would just about fit to my car too! I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you, I hate you!

[Tank72]

wow this is an awsome learning thread thanks guys for all the knowledge..