1991 suspension V.S. 1993 suspension (USA Car)

[imweip]

Originally Posted by buzz21

I am near Toronto.

Do you know anything about the cost of doing the day time running lights for the 93's or if they already have them. Ontario requres day time running lights on all cars now newer than 15 years old.

That's lame.

[Weasy2k]

the cost aint much...you just have to setup some bsic relay system to pass inspection.

Ignition on + ebrake off = Daytime lights on

We have it here in BC too

[JimKing]

MK2s made for Canada use fog lights as DRLs. They have different wiring and a different "Retract Control Relay" compared to USA spec MK2s. The relay acts to turn the fog lights on when the car is running and the headlights are NOT on. If the headlights are on, then the fog lights go out, UNLESS the fog light switch is ON. And the fog lights go OFF whenever you switch on the high beam headlights.
You probably don't want to try to retrofit this stuff. Just wire up the USA car's fog light relay to ignition switched power on one side, and ground on the other. Done.

[buzz21]

thanks guys, i will definatly do that if they will allow that to be OK. It is supposed to be done by a "professional shop becasue they have to sign off on it. but I think i will be able to get around that.

[kbrew8991]

I don't have issues with my '91 suspension. I've ended up adding a little bit more rear camber than most 93+ people choose to run however

[jjjxlr8]

Originally Posted by JimKing

MK2s made for Canada use fog lights as DRLs. They have different wiring and a different "Retract Control Relay" compared to USA spec MK2s. The relay acts to turn the fog lights on when the car is running and the headlights are NOT on. If the headlights are on, then the fog lights go out, UNLESS the fog light switch is ON. And the fog lights go OFF whenever you switch on the high beam headlights.
You probably don't want to try to retrofit this stuff. Just wire up the USA car's fog light relay to ignition switched power on one side, and ground on the other. Done.

Don't forget the switch on the e-brake lever. If the e-brake is on, the fog lights will go off even though the engine is running. If the enigne is running as soon as you release the e-brake, the DRLs (fogs) come on.

Mr. King is right...you don't want to retrofit!

[erioshi]

When I was first developing an NA 91 MK2 for track use I originally planned to swap in the 93+ crossmember and rear toe links. What I found when setting the car up was that with a good mix of suspension components (coilovers or springs & dampers), camber, tire sizes, tire pressures and a tiny hint of rear toe the car's behavior both on and off the race track can be made reasonable and predictable.

Since then I've passed the 93+ rear suspension bits on to someone else and have been tracking a couple of different 91-92 MK2's almost every other weekend for most of the last summer. The only times I have spun the cars is when I have lifted the throttle mid-corner while driving right up against the traction limits. The one exception to that rule was when I hit some slick mud on a wet track while accelerating through a corner - again near my traction limits - the car also went around then.

My point is that if you're driving with a reasonable safety margin like you should be on public roads, then there are very few situations where you should spin the car. If you do run into one of those situations, I'm not sure the differences between the 91 & 93 suspension would make a difference.

[hmong337]

I wonder if it's at all possible if we can get a "side-by-side" pic of a stock 1991 and a stock 1993. that would be cool to see the differences.

[mr2-bob]

Okay, so I'm new to the site, but new the the MR2. I've only driven the wonderfully handling 91 Turbo - 3 different cars. I wouldn't trade the back end of it for a "nicer" (read in "less of a driver's car") for anything. I've been driving them for about 11 years and hang the tail out on a regular basis...only looped once (and once I was in it, decided to try for a 360...only made it to 270).

The 91/92 suspension is what makes a mid-engine car FUN! Come in too fast into the corner, lots of front end understeer, come in a little slower, get on the gas smoothly just before apex, the car stands on the outside rear corner and carves a beautiful turn, get on the gas harder, and light up the rear tires for a very nice drift. Get on it too hard (that is how I looped it, turned in too quickly and on the gas too hard..and the help of some loose gravel just to make it interesting), well, you had better be fast with your hands.

I have taken the car around sweeping turns where I've had to play with the steering and gas at the same time, modulating them to "dance" between the front end sliding and the rear...I was at the limits of adheasion in a very tight piece of road that had concrete walls on both sides....one lane...pretty dumb, I know, but it was a hell of an exit out of it when it started to open up and I could nail the throttle! Posted speed limit in the turn - 25 mph...my speed through the turn, 75 on H rated tires (HARD and NOT sticky), exit speed 125 mph before slowing down to merge with traffic.

I'm an old guy that used to roadrace motorcycles back in the 80's...the MR2 is the closest that I've ever gotten to finding a car that worked as well as my race bikes.

If you want a true drivers car, go with the early crossmember of the 91/92...not too good for rain and snow. If you don't feel that you want that kind of risk, play it safe and go with the later model...

By the way, I traded in my race bike racing for Catamaran sailboat racing...

[Mister22u]

If you car doesn't ahve DRL's, you could hardwire the lights to burn when the car is turned on. On my 4runner, there is a safeguard that will automatically turn off the lights when you open the door, but that's probably too new for a 93.

You could always just turn your lights on; I'm in that habit now anyway. According to statistics, you're 20% less likely to get in an accident with your lights on, than when off.

[MHmotorsport]

Rear suspension geometry: The 91-92 rear suspension geometry is designed to TOE-OUT under lift throttle / braking. In the hands of an experienced driver on a race track, this helps the car rotate on entry to a turn as you ease off the brakes and begin turning in. On a race track where you know every turn and have good visibilily this is great. In the real world with surprises and turns that aren't quite what you expect this can be disasterous if you are driving fast.
The 93+ rear suspension, due to the longer rear toe-control links, TOES-IN slightely under lift throttle / braking. This means turn-in is not as "crisp" as the 91-92 cars, but the car is much more amenable to mid-turn corrections, even braking. Braking mid-turn in a 93+ car will still cause the rear to lighten up and in extreme cases to start slding/spinning, but a good driver can recover with some opposite lock steering. In the same situation with the 91-92 cars, the toe-out that happens literally kicks the rear of the car towards the outside of the turn, making the spin happen much, much more quickly.

Sounds like what you are describing is what bumpsteer is to front suspension...
Surely the best setup would be to have none or as little as possible toe-change in the rear wheels ?

(hello by the way, i'm new here, just reading up a bit on mr2 sw20, finding them quite interesting cars)

[Choctaw]

I had a 91, and a bunch of stupid Japanese journalists were doing testing on the car in late 92 or whenever, and most of them ended up in the wall, ditch, whatever. They screamed to high heaven, in print, that the car was a "deathtrap" when it was their complete lack of skill that caused numerous accidents. Toyota responded with the 93 suspension which made the handling less apt for an untrained driver to make an ass of himself.

They are both good suspensions, but I prefer the faster turnin in on my 91. I never had any oversteer problems.

[KaDuWin]

Hye I just wanted to let you know I have a 91 NA and was driving with a dead suspenion for 3 years and even under extreme driving conditions, i.e cornering at 95 with 16in Pirelli PZero Assimetricos on the car, the car never screached, never tried to skid, never went out, never understeered, never needed to be corrected never gave me any issues, even with snow tires the only the way I was ever able to get the rear end to come out (and it came out only a little bit and I mean very very small amount) was in the rain after giving the car too much lock and too much throttle, and I had to try and throw the back end of my car out. Don't be afraid of what these people say about first Gen of the MR2 MKII most people like to think that they know how to drive a car well but they don't as long as you respect the car you'll be more than fine. Also don't neglect putting a good set of grippy tires on the car, most people run complete garbage tires usually all-weathers and think they will be fine. If you wonna corner shed out some extra dough and get some performance tires. One more thing to to keep in mind is that most people that lose control of the MR2 alos mismatch the tire size and end up putting the same size tire on the front and rear of the car and it is their own stupidity which helps contribute to them losing control. I highly recommend Dunlop Direzza's and Pirelli PZero's, However STAY AWAY FROM YOKOHAMA AVS ES100s they in my opinion blow big time and can't grip for anything.

Having said that. I personally love the nonstop over steer I get on my MR2, I love it so much that I replaced the stock Tokico (garbage shocks) with the same suspension which was found on the G-Limited which is heavy duty Bilsteins, (doubled the cartridge pressure in each shock from the original 240PSI to 415PSI in the Bilsteins) I upgraded to 16 inch Mille Miglia rims front and rear running 7.5in wide rims rear and 7.0in wide front then this year after replacing the Yokohomas (which sucked) I wanted more aggressiveness so I went with a Dunlop Dirrezza Sport tire. I couldn't get 45 height on my 16 inch rim (they don't make my sizes 205/45/16FRONT and 225/45/16REAR) so I instead ran 50 height and the car s even better with this tread height than before. Good luck with your MR2.

[KaDuWin]

Once you own one a MKII or MKI doubt you'll never go back. The MKIII is a different story personally I don't think it is nearly as good as the MKII all in all bu that is only my opinion however the car does handle very very well especially for a convertible which is usually a rare thing to have a convertible handle that well in the corner the MKIII gets .91 laterals Gs.

[DenverMR2]

My question is in a 91 should i be worried about my rearend kicking out during city driving. I'm not an experienced driver but i respect my car and fully know of what can happen when things go wrong. I don't ever speed and never apply throttle/brakes mid corner.

[KaDuWin]

Originally Posted by DenverMR2

My question is in a 91 should i be worried about my rearend kicking out during city driving. I'm not an experienced driver but i respect my car and fully know of what can happen when things go wrong. I don't ever speed and never apply throttle/brakes mid corner.

Not at all the rear end in the car doesn't just come out. This car (when not being pushed to the limits or speeding) is very very well mannered and will not just skid out. Again I have brought my car close to its limits and it is still doesn't skid for me. I do not push my car to the limit especially on the road for the reason that I can't predict what will be ahead and what I will have to avoid. Now if you are inexperienced I completely understand your fear. But if you aren't gonna speed and slow down in the rain and you respect the MR2 then you should be fine and very much in control.

I take it easy in the rain personally after hitting an oil slick in my car but made it out of the slick ok. To give you an idea of what it took to make me skid is a crazy long list of things that all went wrong at the same time. I skidded after hitting an oil slick in the rain, was already in a corner (exit ramp) doing 35MPH, while declerating further, and had my foot on the brakes while having unmatched crappy tires. I only had the car two weeks hen this happened and I have to say everything has been more than fine and never had an issue again. So giving the situation which I described to you it takes a bit to make the car go out and I doubt that if you are not speeding or pushing the car in any way that you will ever have a problem. Again I still advise that in any vehicle you take it easy in the rain, have a good set of performing tires for summer driving and winter tires for the winter. Buts thats only a personal opinion. Some people drive with all-weather tires year round without issue. And again like any other car keep in mind that no matter what you are in you can skid....good handling or bad handling cars, oversteer or understeer cars, fast or slow cars, AWD or 2WD doesn't matter, especially if you hit an oil slick so just take it easy and you'll be more than fine in an MR2. Keep one more thing in mind that the MR2 is considered by many to be one the best handling cars of all time. The only people that have problems are the ones that drive beyond their own limits and push the car too far. And these are the people that shouldn't have an MR2 because they don't respect it. Bottom Line the MR2 is like any high performance car, if you respect it, you'll be fine and take the proper precautions, you'll be fine. Enjoy your MR2. Trust me it is worth it.

I have had mine for years now, I have been offered money by other people in my area to sell it to them and didn't, I could have bought BMW's numerous times (mostly 3 series 323IS, M3 E36, or a M Z3 coupe) and I don't want anything else but my MR2.

[Gairloch]

Originally Posted by DenverMR2

My question is in a 91 should i be worried about my rearend kicking out during city driving. I'm not an experienced driver but i respect my car and fully know of what can happen when things go wrong. I don't ever speed and never apply throttle/brakes mid corner.

I agree with what KaDuWin is telling you for the most part. I caution you to respect it though as the MR2 is more prone to oversteer than a front engine vehicle will be. This means that especially in altered traction conditions you want to have all your braking done *before* you start the turn and be conservative about how much throttle you give it mid-corner. If you're really concerned about how it will perform during more athletic driving I strongly encourage you to attend some autocrosses.

Something else to be aware of is that MR2s are very sensitive to things like tire pressure, tire compound, alignment and suspension set up. This means that while other people's anecdotal feedback can give you an idea of what to expect you can't take that as gospel on what to expect from your car.

[KaDuWin]

Yeah agree 100 percent sorry I didn't say as much as you did as far as