1991 suspension V.S. 1993 suspension (USA Car)

[mr2ya]

I have'nt
i've taken it as fast as it would go with ct26 turbo.
my rims were a lil screwed up at the time too.
very dumb Idea! but im not very bright sometime either.
"that boys bout as sharp as a bowlin ball"

[Mister22u]

Originally Posted by DenverMR2

Ok cool the only other fear i have is that i'm a hit a pothole at speed and its gonna throw the rear end hasthis ever happened to someone.

No. It happens in my 4runner, though.

But, unless you know how old your suspension is, you should probably upgrade it. A solid $700 will get your a top-of-the-line suspension under the car.

The only time my car ever oversteers is when I expect it to (S-turns in WV at 40mph.

But like the preceding posts read, you pretty much have to be going balls-out around blind turns to oversteer. The potential for hitting a rock/deer/biker/runner/walker/car is MUCH HIGHER than actually oversteering out of control.

I also like the advice of paying $250 to get a driving lesson on a road course. That way you can take the car to its limits without the prospect of going out of control and blasting an unsuspecting driver in the opposite lane.

[KaDuWin]

Originally Posted by erioshi

When I was first developing an NA 91 MK2 for track use I originally planned to swap in the 93+ crossmember and rear toe links. What I found when setting the car up was that with a good mix of suspension components (coilovers or springs & dampers), camber, tire sizes, tire pressures and a tiny hint of rear toe the car's behavior both on and off the race track can be made reasonable and predictable.

Since then I've passed the 93+ rear suspension bits on to someone else and have been tracking a couple of different 91-92 MK2's almost every other weekend for most of the last summer. The only times I have spun the cars is when I have lifted the throttle mid-corner while driving right up against the traction limits. The one exception to that rule was when I hit some slick mud on a wet track while accelerating through a corner - again near my traction limits - the car also went around then.

My point is that if you're driving with a reasonable safety margin like you should be on public roads, then there are very few situations where you should spin the car. If you do run into one of those situations, I'm not sure the differences between the 91 & 93 suspension would make a difference.

I agree 100 percent, I think if you are really pushing the limits of the MR2's grip then maybe ( and I STRESS MAYBE) you might be able predict what the car will do a tad better and because of that it might make the car a tad easier to recover, however as a whole the MR2 is still a mid engine car and a mid engine car in general takes more skill to recover from a skid.

[KaDuWin]

Originally Posted by Choctaw

I had a 91, and a bunch of stupid Japanese journalists were doing testing on the car in late 92 or whenever, and most of them ended up in the wall, ditch, whatever. They screamed to high heaven, in print, that the car was a "deathtrap" when it was their complete lack of skill that caused numerous accidents. Toyota responded with the 93 suspension which made the handling less apt for an untrained driver to make an ass of himself.

They are both good suspensions, but I prefer the faster turnin in on my 91. I never had any oversteer problems.

The MR2 is a mid engine car and a mid engine car in general takes more skill to recover from a skid. Its just the way the physics of the car are, due to engine placement, chassis rigidity, power to weight ratio, and weight balance and transfer. Mid engine car especially like an MR2 are meant to go fast, they are designed to be driven through corners and they can only perform their best and do this when the people behind the wheel, know how to control them, appreciate, and respect them. I agree with you, both the 93+ suspension and the 91-92 suspension were both great. The 91 was better in my opinion. I like it better than the new MRS too, which is not as much fun. I wish people would learn to drive before they started to criticize an awsome car. Most journalists don't know how to drive. Ever watched Jeremy Clarkson on Top Gear, lol what a tool, on theother hand you have Tiff Needell who used to race cars for a living and he gave the MR2 MK2 first gen awsome reviews.

[psuPbikeRider88]

The mr2 is really a driver's car. Like any mid-engine race car, If driven well the mr2 will reward you. If driven crappily, it will make things worse for you. As for teh difference in teh two suspensions... from what I have read, the 91 sounds like it is better for a more experienced driver, and the 93+ sounds like toyota tried to make it a bit easier to drive by sacrificing corner entry a little bit. Either way you go, the car is going to outhandle any other car on the road that isnt $15,000+

[KaDuWin]

Originally Posted by psuPbikeRider88

The mr2 is really a driver's car. Like any mid-engine race car, If driven well the mr2 will reward you. If driven crappily, it will make things worse for you. As for teh difference in teh two suspensions... from what I have read, the 91 sounds like it is better for a more experienced driver, and the 93+ sounds like toyota tried to make it a bit easier to drive by sacrificing corner entry a little bit. Either way you go, the car is going to outhandle any other car on the road that isnt $15,000+

I have out handled cars with a dead suspension in my 91 that cost in the upperwards of 75,000 to 80,000 a Corvette, (not sure if either were a Z06 or not) a Mercedes E55 AMG (complete joke) a BMW E36 M3 (not bad just not good enough to keep up with me) a Porsche 911 (I think that guy was surprised) lol. Yeah the list goes on and on.

The MR2 is considered by many to be one of the best handling cars ever built at any price. The only other car I know of that has that title which is so widely recognized is the Acura NSX again another amazing mid engine car. But when push comes to shuv I am an MR2 fan and I would much rather have MR2 Gen 5 MK2 with a 3SGTE with VVTI, a TRD wide body kit (which you can't really get any more) and a few suspension mods over an NSX. The MR2 is perhaps the most underestimated car of all time (as far as over all performance is concerned) tied with the original Mini Cooper S which was also an awsome car. As far as performance goes, the MR2 offers you what only a very select few other cars can at a much more ridiculous price.

[psuPbikeRider88]

true^. the lotus elise or exige im sure handle just as good if not better than an mr2... but for the price, they better.

[KaDuWin]

Originally Posted by psuPbikeRider88

true^. the lotus elise or exige im sure handle just as good if not better than an mr2... but for the price, they better.

If both were stock then yes, it probably would, after all we are talking about Lotus (Lotus is the authority when it comes to tuning a suspension) but then again Lotus did take part in the design of the MK2 suspension. However I think if you got a G Limited with heavy duty Bilsteins, with the same tires on both cars, and full TRD front and rear braces. I think the MR2 could win. Then again if you take the top of the line Exige with every option for the suspension it would be a great race. I wouldn't mind seeing that happen. LOL Either way I could route for both sides seeing as how I am a Lotus fanatic (especially for the 2005 twin turbo V8 Esprit) and I am also an MR2 fanatic.

[psuPbikeRider88]

yeah, for the price nothing beats the mr2. Some would argue the miata, but if you ask me... miata's are for women and gay guys. haha

[KaDuWin]

Originally Posted by psuPbikeRider88

yeah, for the price nothing beats the mr2. Some would argue the miata, but if you ask me... miata's are for women and gay guys. haha

Yeah no doubt the MR2 is one of the best. I have wanted an MR2 since I was 11 years old, I finally got one and I love it so much, my dad wanted me to sell it and get a BMW Z3 M coupe or a E36 M3 ( I worked for BMW and drove the M3) they are nice, handle very well, and are very fast, but lets face it, I would never be as happy in them as I would be in an MR2. The speed of car makes up for only so much, it never makes cr better than another alone. The MR2 for me ranks up there with some of the highest forms of automobiles.

Yeah the only people that would argue that a Miata is better are the people that
1.never drove an MR2.
2. (more importantantly) are jealous that someone else has a car which is prettier, not a death trap, (lets face it the miata, because of its size is not a safe car) and the MR2 looks like a Ferrari while the Miata is still just a convertible chicks car.

I have no doubt that miata may be a fun car, but its not fast, its not pretty, it won't handle any where close to the MR2. it will NEVER be a collectedable like the MR2 has already become, and last but not least I wouldn't be caught in a Miata, thats like being caught driving a Pinto or Yugo. LOL

[Choctaw]

Originally Posted by KaDuWin

Yeah no doubt the MR2 is one of the best. I have wanted an MR2 since I was 11 years old, I finally got one and I love it so much, my dad wanted me to sell it and get a BMW Z3 M coupe or a E36 M3 ( I worked for BMW and drove the M3) they are nice, handle very well, and are very fast, but lets face it, I would never be as happy in them as I would be in an MR2. The speed of car makes up for only so much, it never makes cr better than another alone. The MR2 for me ranks up there with some of the highest forms of automobiles.

Yeah the only people that would argue that a Miata is better are the people that
1.never drove an MR2.
2. (more importantantly) are jealous that someone else has a car which is prettier, not a death trap, (lets face it the miata, because of its size is not a safe car) and the MR2 looks like a Ferrari while the Miata is still just a convertible chicks car.

I have no doubt that miata may be a fun car, but its not fast, its not pretty, it won't handle any where close to the MR2. it will NEVER be a collectedable like the MR2 has already become, and last but not least I wouldn't be caught in a Miata, thats like being caught driving a Pinto or Yugo. LOL

I can't fit into a Miata, 6'4" 260 lbs, but I could adjust the seat on my Mr2Tand drive like an astronaut ie, seat on the floor, backrest all the way to the firewall and the steering wheel adjusted to its maximum height. The MR2T was more fun than my 03 350Z by a factor of 100%. The wholesaler I bought my Tokiko Illuminas from raced a 1st gen MR, and he said the 2nd gen cars would pull away from Nissan 300Zs on an oval track because it stuck so well in the curves.

If I had a 3 car garage, I'd buy an MR2T, but I don't leave my cars outside, ever.

[psuPbikeRider88]

yeah, my father and his girlfriend are probably putting up a garage soon, so thats where ill be putting my mr2 at night and in the winter. I was interested in 350z's (although i could not even come close to affording one), but I think the mr2 will easily out handle it. Its not as fast in a straight line... Yet. Eventually down the road i'd like to build the beams motor with low comp. pistons and forged rods and turbo it. Then it will probably be a bit quicker haha.

[KaDuWin]

Originally Posted by Choctaw

I can't fit into a Miata, 6'4" 260 lbs, but I could adjust the seat on my Mr2Tand drive like an astronaut ie, seat on the floor, backrest all the way to the firewall and the steering wheel adjusted to its maximum height. The MR2T was more fun than my 03 350Z by a factor of 100%. The wholesaler I bought my Tokiko Illuminas from raced a 1st gen MR, and he said the 2nd gen cars would pull away from Nissan 300Zs on an oval track because it stuck so well in the curves.

If I had a 3 car garage, I'd buy an MR2T, but I don't leave my cars outside, ever.

Yeah, all in all the Miata has nice handling but thats it, it really isn't a performing sport car, it is more of a convertible with a bit of handling spunk. It isn't fast, even the new speed is slow in comparison to the new MRS and the MRS has 30 less horses and no turbo. If you are interested there is video on youtube which is a race between the MR2 with 220BHP, an NSX, RX7, Mitsibishi 3000GT VR4, Nissan Skyline, and an MR GT (I think that one was 170 BHP) When this video was made the MR2 with 220BHP. I can't fint he link right now, but I will look for it if you can't find it. It is on there though. It is worth watching and will definitely make you proud to be an MR2 owner.

[HarrisRacing]

I read the post here regarding the rear subframe differences and I am going to modify my 1991 racecar's subframe to replicate the 1993 geometry while the engine is out of the car.

can anyone verify the placement that was previously suggested?:

Rear toe links = 1993 is 3.75" longer than 1991
Fasten point on subframe:
Vertical placement = 1993 is 4mm higher (vertical) than 1991
Horizontal = to make up difference between the two (will calculate).

So I need someone to put a tape measure on it for me and perhaps take some pictures.

Reason I want to make this change = save some Toe-in on the rear to save tires...also make correctability better which will make it easier / safer for me to pass in the corners (not that mine is THAT bad with the toe-in that I run...just want it better at zero toe in).

Thanks,
Patrick Harris

[kbrew8991]

no roll = no toe change

spring it stiffer

[Gairloch]

I've got the stiffest springs I could find short of a coilover, RSR Race springs, and am loving my suspension with only a tenth negative toe in back. No noticable extra wear from it and the car is very very stable.

[pothiawala786]

So Gairloch, just curious, but what exactly is your susp setup?

KYB struts
RSR race springs
Stock sway bars?
Stock 91 crossmember, etc (assuming your car's a 91)

what are you alignment settings?
tire sizes?

Also, are RSR race springs linear or progressive?