4A-GE MK1 Engine MKI: Performance/Engine Questions

C.Jackson · 12-09-2005, 05:08 AM

I have decided that over the next 6-8 months I will start building up funds for a full build of the motor.
I went thru CyberAuto.Com and saw a few things that I'd want to use in my build (Cams, valve train, ect.). I was wondering what the best build would be for a 4AGE.

I've also been throwing around the idea of a swap of some form. My budget is, I'm going to say this knowing I have a bit more money to put in for the extra things I may overlook, $2500-$3000 (Keep in mind that I'm trying to not spend an arm and a leg), but I may be willing to spend a bit more.
The thing I'm looking for is a strong motor that will produce at least, if not more, 175 horsepower and equivilent torque.

My question to you is what would be the best for a good power to weight (Also to dollar) ratio?
What is the best for the money, but also has a nice kick in the pants?

Swap? (Specify which motor)
Or build of the current 4AGE?

I'm about 99% sure that a swap is probably best for what I'm looking for so humor me.....

Devin

jnscott · 12-09-2005, 08:05 AM

Honestly, the swap is the most bang for buck. I'm in the middle of a rebuild on a 4AGE. If I did not already have good parts, it would cost me $1500 to $2000 in parts and machine shop. I will be lucky to push 175 hp with this build. However $1000 with a 20v clip will get you nearly the same with a few little mods. I went the rebuild route because I have the tools, skill, and parts. Plus I wanted a near stock car.

Jay

C.Jackson · 12-09-2005, 08:37 PM

Ok, now my next question is, which swap?
You know my budget (specified above) so let me know what you all think would be the best for that kind of cash.

Devin

jnscott · 12-09-2005, 10:17 PM

I'd say jdm 20 valve with new cams.

mr2by4 · 12-09-2005, 10:27 PM

Would you be opposed to a 3sgte? That's the most bang for your buck, and later on you can add more bang for more bucks, until you have totally overwhelmed the chassis with power and can start redesigning suspension etc. If you are thrifty, it can be done within your budget.

20incher · 12-09-2005, 11:43 PM

The 3sgte in a mk1 is a beast, but considering the fabrication and work (of which there is a ton of documentation) i think it would outweigh the easiness of a simple 4age or 4agze swap in. If you going to go with a 4age check out jnscotts post about mod recommendation, his setup is ideal for a 4age.

Weasy2k · 12-10-2005, 03:47 AM

I agree i would rather take a 20v or a agze as a swap...
The 20v black/silver top engines are very strong engines and have some decent aftermarket for them.
The 4agze has an even bigger aftermarket and by taking the s/c off and putting a turbo on there you can yeild alot of power!
The reason for the 4agze engine for turbo is because it comes with less static compression so its better suited for forced induction.

Now if you want to stay NA then DEFINATLY a silvter top with standalone ems, cams, PP, and of course get those trumpets going with the itbs instead of the plenum that covers those beautys :P

C.Jackson · 12-10-2005, 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 20incher

The 3sgte in a mk1 is a beast, but considering the fabrication and work (of which there is a ton of documentation) i think it would outweigh the easiness of a simple 4age or 4agze swap in. If you going to go with a 4age check out jnscotts post about mod recommendation, his setup is ideal for a 4age.

Hmm..... Could you point me in the direction of this documentation? I'm trying to get a feel of things so I know about how long the car will be off the road and how much work it'll be. I can deal with a bit of work if the power is worth it, and it is.
I was checking out the Northstar swapped MR2.....mmm, that would be nice, but it would also be very time consuming. But I do know N*s are strong engines because I have one in my STS

300 horsepower

.

Devin

mikeswickednick · 12-10-2005, 01:20 PM

yeah that northstar doesnt run... i dont think its gone 5 feet

Weasy2k · 12-11-2005, 04:18 AM

the northstar is a wicked engine

have to agree...would take a 1uz over it any day tho :P

THere is lots of info out there..search on yahoo or something for 4age and it will bring up many sites

Tyler · 12-12-2005, 07:49 PM

www.twibrutal.co.uk for 3sgte swap on mk1, i also have 2 pdf wlkthroughs of the swap if you ask nicely

Weasy2k · 12-17-2005, 12:45 PM

there is so much info out there...dont have to as tyler nicely jsut search too...

ps tyler = foo

is_tech · 04-13-2007, 02:35 PM

Hey Weasy!

I am new to engine swapping.
Can you please be a little more specific about ITBS:
What is it exactly?

(YOUR QUOTE FROM THE REPLY ABOVE) - and of course get those trumpets going with the itbs instead of the plenum that covers those beautys :P

Thanks!

C.Jackson · 04-14-2007, 11:09 AM

Individual throttle bodies.

is_tech · 04-16-2007, 02:21 PM

Gotcha.
So what option do I have besides the plenum that covers them up?
Is there an intake that can be hooked up to all four, or 4 separate intakes?
Any websites or anyone have any pics that show me some options?

Thanks!

C.Jackson · 04-16-2007, 03:38 PM

The best route is to remove the plenium and add a filter to each tb, which is demonstrated in this picture.

Mista 2 · 04-19-2007, 08:41 AM

is it as easy as just taking the plenum off and putting filters on or do you need something done computer wise. i am about to put a black top in my 85 and have been talked into going that route.
thanx

C.Jackson · 04-19-2007, 08:05 PM

I'm not really sure on the tuning aspect but I've seen some black tops with MAF and some without. If it doesn't have/need a MAF then it should be fine.
Well alot of people don't recommend running filters because of the loss in air flow and would tell you just to run velocity stacks. But since it's probably going to be a daily driver, I'd run some foam motorcycle filters since they are pretty easy to come by. Unless you just want to keep the plenium and adapt a K&N or similar filter. I'm not sure if any tests have been done to find the losses but I read somewhere that there was a 12-13HP loss to the rear wheels on a 180HP N/A 4AGE with foam filters

.

Hope this helps.

Mista 2 · 04-20-2007, 05:12 AM

thanx, i will be running some sort of filter for everyday driving as i go on a dirt road on the way up to the girlfriends house (i just dont know how to not make the back end slide

) if i cant get velocity stacks then i dont mind but they do look cool.

jeremynandrew · 06-12-2007, 09:39 AM

if you got the money to spend on it you should go to toysport.com, where they sell the total parts list for a full formula atlantic conversion for the 4age engine. now it costs about 14,000 for full setup but you can pick and choose parts and they are tuned to fully open up your 4age! Go NA eventhough it is expensive, the joy of keeping the original feel of the engine with hella power is cool

12-09-2005, 05:08 AM	#1 (permalink)
C.Jackson 4AGE Powaa! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chattahoochee, FL Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	MKI: Performance/Engine Questions I have decided that over the next 6-8 months I will start building up funds for a full build of the motor. I went thru CyberAuto.Com and saw a few things that I'd want to use in my build (Cams, valve train, ect.). I was wondering what the best build would be for a 4AGE. I've also been throwing around the idea of a swap of some form. My budget is, I'm going to say this knowing I have a bit more money to put in for the extra things I may overlook, $2500-$3000 (Keep in mind that I'm trying to not spend an arm and a leg), but I may be willing to spend a bit more. The thing I'm looking for is a strong motor that will produce at least, if not more, 175 horsepower and equivilent torque. My question to you is what would be the best for a good power to weight (Also to dollar) ratio? What is the best for the money, but also has a nice kick in the pants? Swap? (Specify which motor) Or build of the current 4AGE? I'm about 99% sure that a swap is probably best for what I'm looking for so humor me..... Devin

04-16-2007, 02:21 PM	#15 (permalink)
is_tech Work in Progress Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	ITBS Gotcha. So what option do I have besides the plenum that covers them up? Is there an intake that can be hooked up to all four, or 4 separate intakes? Any websites or anyone have any pics that show me some options? Thanks!

04-19-2007, 08:05 PM	#18 (permalink)
C.Jackson 4AGE Powaa! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chattahoochee, FL Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I'm not really sure on the tuning aspect but I've seen some black tops with MAF and some without. If it doesn't have/need a MAF then it should be fine. Well alot of people don't recommend running filters because of the loss in air flow and would tell you just to run velocity stacks. But since it's probably going to be a daily driver, I'd run some foam motorcycle filters since they are pretty easy to come by. Unless you just want to keep the plenium and adapt a K&N or similar filter. I'm not sure if any tests have been done to find the losses but I read somewhere that there was a 12-13HP loss to the rear wheels on a 180HP N/A 4AGE with foam filters . Hope this helps. Last edited by C.Jackson; 04-19-2007 at 08:12 PM..

06-12-2007, 09:39 AM	#20 (permalink)
jeremynandrew Some Skills Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 57 Thanks: 3 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	NA 4age if you got the money to spend on it you should go to toysport.com, where they sell the total parts list for a full formula atlantic conversion for the 4age engine. now it costs about 14,000 for full setup but you can pick and choose parts and they are tuned to fully open up your 4age! Go NA eventhough it is expensive, the joy of keeping the original feel of the engine with hella power is cool

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12-09-2005, 08:05 AM	#2 (permalink)
jnscott Master Tinkerer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Honestly, the swap is the most bang for buck. I'm in the middle of a rebuild on a 4AGE. If I did not already have good parts, it would cost me $1500 to $2000 in parts and machine shop. I will be lucky to push 175 hp with this build. However $1000 with a 20v clip will get you nearly the same with a few little mods. I went the rebuild route because I have the tools, skill, and parts. Plus I wanted a near stock car. Jay

12-09-2005, 08:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
C.Jackson 4AGE Powaa! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chattahoochee, FL Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Ok, now my next question is, which swap? You know my budget (specified above) so let me know what you all think would be the best for that kind of cash. Devin

12-09-2005, 10:17 PM	#4 (permalink)
jnscott Master Tinkerer Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Mobile, AL Posts: 18 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I'd say jdm 20 valve with new cams.

12-09-2005, 10:27 PM	#5 (permalink)
mr2by4 skills? Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Fort Worth Posts: 120 Thanks: 2 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	Would you be opposed to a 3sgte? That's the most bang for your buck, and later on you can add more bang for more bucks, until you have totally overwhelmed the chassis with power and can start redesigning suspension etc. If you are thrifty, it can be done within your budget.

12-09-2005, 11:43 PM	#6 (permalink)
20incher fallen angels Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 394 Thanks: 0 Thanked 6 Times in 6 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	The 3sgte in a mk1 is a beast, but considering the fabrication and work (of which there is a ton of documentation) i think it would outweigh the easiness of a simple 4age or 4agze swap in. If you going to go with a 4age check out jnscotts post about mod recommendation, his setup is ideal for a 4age.

12-10-2005, 03:47 AM	#7 (permalink)
Weasy2k What is an MR2? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,891 Thanks: 33 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	I agree i would rather take a 20v or a agze as a swap... The 20v black/silver top engines are very strong engines and have some decent aftermarket for them. The 4agze has an even bigger aftermarket and by taking the s/c off and putting a turbo on there you can yeild alot of power! The reason for the 4agze engine for turbo is because it comes with less static compression so its better suited for forced induction. Now if you want to stay NA then DEFINATLY a silvter top with standalone ems, cams, PP, and of course get those trumpets going with the itbs instead of the plenum that covers those beautys :P

12-10-2005, 01:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
mikeswickednick ding! Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: nj/fla Posts: 537 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	yeah that northstar doesnt run... i dont think its gone 5 feet

12-11-2005, 04:18 AM	#10 (permalink)
Weasy2k What is an MR2? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,891 Thanks: 33 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	the northstar is a wicked engine have to agree...would take a 1uz over it any day tho :P THere is lots of info out there..search on yahoo or something for 4age and it will bring up many sites

12-12-2005, 07:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
Tyler Cage Fighter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: saskatoon sask Posts: 978 Thanks: 0 Thanked 4 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	www.twibrutal.co.uk for 3sgte swap on mk1, i also have 2 pdf wlkthroughs of the swap if you ask nicely

12-17-2005, 12:45 PM	#12 (permalink)
Weasy2k What is an MR2? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,891 Thanks: 33 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	there is so much info out there...dont have to as tyler nicely jsut search too... ps tyler = foo

04-13-2007, 02:35 PM	#13 (permalink)
is_tech Work in Progress Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Texas Posts: 93 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Hey Weasy! I am new to engine swapping. Can you please be a little more specific about ITBS: What is it exactly? (YOUR QUOTE FROM THE REPLY ABOVE) - and of course get those trumpets going with the itbs instead of the plenum that covers those beautys :P Thanks!

04-14-2007, 11:09 AM	#14 (permalink)
C.Jackson 4AGE Powaa! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chattahoochee, FL Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Individual throttle bodies.

04-16-2007, 03:38 PM	#16 (permalink)
C.Jackson 4AGE Powaa! Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chattahoochee, FL Posts: 40 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The best route is to remove the plenium and add a filter to each tb, which is demonstrated in this picture.

04-19-2007, 08:41 AM	#17 (permalink)
Mista 2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 463 Thanks: 16 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	is it as easy as just taking the plenum off and putting filters on or do you need something done computer wise. i am about to put a black top in my 85 and have been talked into going that route. thanx

04-20-2007, 05:12 AM	#19 (permalink)
Mista 2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 463 Thanks: 16 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	thanx, i will be running some sort of filter for everyday driving as i go on a dirt road on the way up to the girlfriends house (i just dont know how to not make the back end slide ) if i cant get velocity stacks then i dont mind but they do look cool.