20V: 20v swap info

[Tyler]

im not doing this swap and dont know too much abou it but here are some sites with walk throughs for it

http://www.padandwheels.com/mr2/blac.../blacktop.html

http://dr_hess.tripod.com/The_Beast.htm

http://geocities.com/tylerfishsmith/...l?103202436334

these next 2 are not in mr2's but still a good read

http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/phil....20Magazine.htm

http://www.geocities.com/bale92002/

[mr220v]

Saw the thread on the 20v swap was lacking info.

Most aspects of the 20v swap are very easy. The motor is a straight bolt-in, no motormount modding or swapping required.

The original mr2 tranny can be used, and will also bolt straight on. The only issue is on the early transmissions that only have the exhaust side mounting option. If you try to use the 20v header unmodified with the exhaust side starter, the fit will be VERY tight. They will clear each other, but will be within a centimeter. You may also have to remove the header to remove the starter. Having the starter exposed to this heat may also shorten its life expectancy.

The 16v exhaust system can be used with a small modification to the manifold. All 3 of the center bolts line up. The timing belt side flange is short, but can still be tightened up by allowing the bolt to rest on the outer lip of the flange. The tranny side flange is at an incorrect angle. It must be trimmed back to clear the water neck. Here are some pics of this done on an ae86:

http://69.15.41.214/mr2/000.jpg
http://69.15.41.214/mr2/001.jpg
http://69.15.41.214/mr2/002.jpg
http://69.15.41.214/mr2/003.jpg
http://69.15.41.214/mr2/004.jpg

Use of the 20v header will require a custom Bpipe


Aside from this, how you want to run your hoses and throttle cable are the only other issues you have to resolve.

I prefer to run from the oil cooler (not used with the 20v oiling system) to the water neck on the back of the head (the one next to the exhaust manifold) incorporating the filler neck right above the exhaust manifold. The driver's side pipe will run to the thermostat housing, and the heater hoses can simply be hooked up. DO NOT TRY AND USE THE 16V TSTAT HOUSING, YOU'LL ONLY GET CONFUSED.

The throttle cable can be rerouted to the passenger side of the car, though this is still not quite long enough. On my personal setup, i've run the cable back through the front firewall, under the dash, under the center console, behind the rear carpeting, and through the trunk release cable hole in the firewall. The 16v cable is more than long enough for this path.


WIRING. This is the difficult part of the conversion. Its the reason why so many of these swaps have failed to run correctly, or run at all. In the past, getting a complete 20v harness was the best way to ensure success, though this option still can take months to get running. Most people, with average skills, are not going to be able to wire a cut harness. I've seen people with above average wiring skills, on numerous ocassions, not be able to make this work at all.

This is where I come in. If you supply me an uncut 16v harness and a cut 20v harness (I don't care too much about the condition of the 20v harness), I can make you a Plug and Play 20v harness for your 1985-1989 aw11. PNP means it will plug right into your 16v body harness and onto your 20v motor. No soldering, cutting, or running wire (well there is one little issue on 85-86 cars involving the injector resistor that even a 10 year old could handle. Send me your resistor if you don't want to handle this)

The cost is $350, and I don't need to touch your car. I've done more than 10 of these with great success, some internationally. Every harness is test run on my personal car before it is ever shipped, so what you get is known to be functional and code free.

Alltogether the quickest way to do a 20v swap. PM me if intrested.

[Weasy2k]

I am thinking about the Blacktop to replace my AGZE...just cant deicde yet

[Midengine]

what air flow meter do you recomend if u dont have the OEM for the 20v

[mr220v]

A 4cyl camry afm from years 90-91 will work fine.

What I really prefer is to substitute the silvertop ecu entirely. I love the blacktop ecu's tune. Basically the same lowend, with a good bit more topend and a higher rev limiter. You can use just about any NA toyota map sensor with this ecu.

It seems like a lot of the advantage a blacktop has over a silvertop is in the tuning. Get a lighter flywheel for your silvertop along with the BT ecu, and you've got 80% of the blacktop advantage in a silvertop.

[celicaboy]

hey i wondering if you can tell me if this 2000 mr2/celica 2.0L 3sge-beams red top exist in japan and i want to swap into my 7th generation 2000 celica gt body. or can you what exactly what kind of this motor is(names)
would that work or would tell me what to do to make it work. or

thanks

[mr220v]

The 7th gen celicas came with ZZ series motors, not S series. If you are looking for an upgrade, use the 2zzge. That or turbocharge the 1zz.

[Maine_MR2]

more on the harness..
you mentioned "cut" 20v harness, you mean cut just before the fuse box? That seems to be common. Not many actually have the whole thing with fuse box. You mentioned using the blacktop ECU with the silvertop. can you explain a bit more about that -sounded like you were saying best to have the auto tranny silvertop if going this route?

[mr220v]

Most of the engine harnesses that come with the 4age 20v, or any jdm motor for that matter, are hacked up to one degree or another. Not a lot of care is taken in Japan to remove these motors with all wiring intact.

There is a good bit of added expense in getting a complete/uncut 20v harness. You would either have to buy a full swap set, and pay a premium for buying this way, or buy the harness seperately which will run between $150-$250. Often times, the cheap harness you get will be the type that only has 2 ecu plugs, which makes it only a little bit better than the cut harness.

I can work off of a VERY butchered harness. As long as the two main plastic casings are there (the grey one by the injectors, and the main black one that runs under the itbs), I can make it work without much trouble.

I can also wire any 20v to use the blacktop ecu. This ecu uses a map sensor instead of an AFM which is what makes it possible to run open throttles and velocity stacks. The revlimiter is also higher, and the topend performance also seems to be a bit better.

It is no extra trouble for me to wire for a BT ecu. Just let me know if you need your harness set up this way.

[Sam1]

I got a question about this swap. What can be salvaged from the 16v to be used on the 20v with your custom made harness?

[mr220v]

^Typically nothing electrical is carried over from the 16v. If you were to buy just the 20v engine and not buy a swap set, you would need to buy:

-ecu
-coil
-igniter (and bracket)
-afm or map sensor with intake air sensor
-o2

I can supply many of these items for additional cost.

There are some mechanical bits that you can reuse. You can reuse your mr2's transmission if it is in good shape. You can also reuse your entire 16v exhaust, though you will have to make some small modifications to the manifold flange.

[Sam1]

let's say further down the road I want to go blacktop ecu and electronics and I have a mt what black top ecu would I have to get(at/mt) and would I be able to send you the blacktop ecu and harness so you can adapt the map and air temp sensor or how would that work.
also lets say they removed the harness from the 20v ST would you also be able to supply a harness?

[mr220v]

If you were going to transition to a blacktop ecu later, but start with a silvertop ecu, then it would be best if you used the Silvertop AT ecu. The silvertop AT, Blacktop MT, and Blacktop AT all had identical, or near identical ecu pinouts. The silvertop MT ecu's pins were arranged differently, so any future upgrade to a BT ecu would require repinning and a replacement ecu plug.

I make an adapter for the afm plug that adds a plug for the map and airtemp sensor.

[Mista 2]

whats the differance between the MT and AT ecu's?

[mr220v]

At ecu's can control automatic transmissions.

[Mista 2]

that it??? thought there would be something else

[mr220v]

The pinouts for the silvertop AT ecu are different from the silvertop MT ecu. The MT ecu uses a 12pin plug in place of the 22pin plug. Aside from that, there isn't much difference.

[Raptor13x]

Vacuum Setup

[Raptor13x]

Further resources:

4A-GE 20V Enthusiast

[MR III]

That site is like walhalla for me,.
Especially this page,. 4A-GE 20V Enthusiast :: Download

You even can download a complete Blacktop 20V repair and service manual there