20V MK1 Engine Swap Still having issues. Please help.. - Page 3

tjmr2 · 08-27-2008, 01:45 AM

Kaz, take another look at the picture of my engine. You circled the banjo bolt several times, above and to the left of the engine hoist hook. That is where the fuel enters the fuel rail. The other end of that hose attaches to your fuel filter and fuel will pour out of it when you switch the ignition on. Disconnect the line there and that is the only place fuel will come out when you turn the ignition to "on".

As mr22ov states, from that point the fuel pressurizes the fuel rail and the excess returns to the gas tank. It passes through the injector rail to the pressure regulator (now we are at the passenger side), down a short piece of rubber hose, then through the hard steel line under the throttle bodies (back to the drivers side) to the rubber hose under the hook right next to the white wire tie.

From the wire tie the fuel continues it's journey to the hard pipe next to the filter,[via rubber hose (connected with the circled once brass fittings on my engine)] then to another rubber hose and connects to a hard pipe leading back to the gas tank.

A bit of practical theory: Pumps don't make pressure, pumps make fluids move, it's the restriction of that movement (flow) that causes pressure.

The fuel pump supplies a given amount of flow to the bottom of the filter and then to the fuel rail at the banjo bolt. It counts on the pressure regulator to restrict that flow and thus maintain a constant pressure in the fuel rail for the injectors to use as required. In order for the injectors to always have enough fuel pressure there must be extra flow capacity in the system. The Toyota engineers built this in by using a higher flow pump than was required and sending the excess back to the tank.

I hope this helps.

kazin1111 · 08-28-2008, 09:54 AM

It does indeed. I believe the reason I am not getting pressure is because I hooked up some vacuum hoses wrong. I'm currently waitiing on my hose kit. it is supposed to have complete instructions... I'll see whats wrong once that arrives.

kazin1111 · 09-15-2008, 09:54 AM

Got all my vaccum hoses hooked up. (woot side to side racing!) also I believe I know how to fix the fuel issue. I'm waiting on the parts store to recharge my battery. Only took me 6 and a half hours to hook up 23 hoses ( sad I know). Anyways. I was wondering if I need this part that I circled in the picture. If so, where does it go, and.... what is it? THe black hose on the bottom (hard to see) leads to a T connection. and it then goes into a white barrel shaped object with a green plug attached to it. It also seems to be a pressure hose, (before the T) and the last end of the T isn't connected to anything.

kazin1111 · 09-15-2008, 10:52 AM

OK! Got the battery, went to start it. and no fuel Spit out!!!!! however, it won't turn all the way over. I''m gonna hook up the throttle cable so I can pump the pedal while I turn it. (i'm by myself) Anything really dumb I may have forgotten you can suggest?

kazin1111 · 09-15-2008, 05:25 PM

The Spark i'm getting off of the first firing coil (before it his the dizzy) is a dull orange. Shouldn't it be a nice bright blue?

kazin1111 · 09-15-2008, 06:42 PM

Compression is shot... bad all over the place. sometimes getting 40, sometimes 112. I think it is supposed to be between about 140 and 160ish...

Retiming... Anyone still read this? I feel like I'm posting a Journal....

Help?

tjmr2 · 09-15-2008, 11:58 PM

Got it running, GOOD for you!!! Set your timing per the BGB, if it's running spark intensity isn't your highest priority.

A compression check doesn't tell the whole story. Do a leak down test to determine the real problem, Google will provide lots of information on the subject, the tester is easy to build and use. The leak down test will tell you where you are losing compression, valves, rings.

Is the same cylinder providing the varying compression or is #1 @ 40 and #2 @ 120?

kazin1111 · 09-16-2008, 12:21 AM

Thanks for the reply TJ, thought I was alone.... Just spent 2 hours connecting the spring for the tensioner. (only took 5 minutes once I disconnected the timing belt) I think that is why my Compression tests were acting so weird. Timing belt was flopping and jumping teeth every 1/4th of a revolution. I've got to go get a pry bar so I can put the belt back on. That tensioner is way TIGHT now. so i'm done for the night until I can get some parts.

As far as doing the timing. The cams point up and towards each other, with the motor at TDC right?

and. what is BGB? that the mr2 manual? umm... big green book? I'm using the Blacktop manual. it should work right?

tjmr2 · 09-19-2008, 01:40 AM

BGB = Big Green Book, The MR2 manual, for the 89 at least has green and black covers and is about 2" thick, thus BGB.

Stock timing for the 89 is 10 deg BTDC, which is about where I set mine, hard to see on the BT but I'm real close.

Cams, belt and tensioner. I replaced the cam belt on mine, and the seal and oil in the tensioner as well as the tensioner pulley and bearing. (I'm funny that way, I'd rather spend money now than have to go back in three months and replace parts that are 50K + mile old. But that's just me.)

The 16 valve has a spring that you use to adjust the tension on the cam belt, the 20v BT uses an entirely different hydraulic spring device to hold the cam belt tight. It bolts on the intake side of the engine above the crankshaft pulley. You have to grind a notch in your alternator bracket (16v) to get it to fit on the engine around the tensioner.

But use the 20v alternator if you can as it's electrical outputs are lower and don't hit the airbox.

Cam timing according to the original 89 BGB - Timing marks on both cams straight up, knock pin on intake side just about straight up about 11:30 on a clock and the exhaust about 5:30.

Hope this helps.

kazin1111 · 09-20-2008, 04:00 PM

Timing is good now. It keeps overheating however. Waterpump is moving, I removed the thermostat to check flow. Don't even know if that is working or not. My radiator fans are not working, thats my main concern. Anyone know what those run to, and/or how to rig them to the ignition. (thats safe right?)

kazin1111 · 09-20-2008, 09:06 PM

So.... which way does the thermostat go into? and how do I rig my fans to run? is there a better way?

kazin1111 · 09-21-2008, 07:28 PM

so figured out thermostat only goes one way. Anyone know of what wire is the ignition wire?

kazin1111 · 09-22-2008, 11:24 AM

Ok, did some research and disconnected the sensor by the radiator. YES! Fans started spinning. and now I have instructions (with pictures) on how to properly fill my coolant and get the air out.. One step closer...

kazin1111 · 09-22-2008, 07:19 PM

Cooling system fixed. ( I hope) now i'm having engine issues. feels like im on 3 cylinders. about to check. also gotta verify my ecu codes.

kazin1111 · 10-30-2008, 05:21 AM

Moving along. BT is in. Compression check is not good. When I added a bit of oil (teaspoon) where the spark plugs go, compression shot up to correct. However. My battery started dying so i'm pretty sure it was giving me false readings the 3rd time. As far as the oil goes... what does that mean? My timing is perfect this time. I'm sure of it.

mr220v · 10-30-2008, 09:27 AM

If your comp is down, you can move your ST internals over to your BT.

What are your comp numbers? I suppose adding the oil could boost even normal numbers.

Wow, if it's not one thing it's another. Since it's in, I'd just slap it back together and see how it does.

kazin1111 · 10-30-2008, 11:34 AM

Comp normal was 60, 90, 120 140.
with oil was 120, 190, 190, 195. however, I tested these out of order with different wait times. I also forgot to do it with wide open throttle. I"m not seeing a place for the map sensor plug to go. I'll check my old motor. I may be missing the sensor. I also don't see the IAT sensor, so I don't know where to plug that in either..

09-15-2008, 09:54 AM	#43 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Got all my vaccum hoses hooked up. (woot side to side racing!) also I believe I know how to fix the fuel issue. I'm waiting on the parts store to recharge my battery. Only took me 6 and a half hours to hook up 23 hoses ( sad I know). Anyways. I was wondering if I need this part that I circled in the picture. If so, where does it go, and.... what is it? THe black hose on the bottom (hard to see) leads to a T connection. and it then goes into a white barrel shaped object with a green plug attached to it. It also seems to be a pressure hose, (before the T) and the last end of the T isn't connected to anything. Attached Thumbnails

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08-27-2008, 01:45 AM	#41 (permalink)
tjmr2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 410 Thanks: 0 Thanked 62 Times in 59 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Kaz, take another look at the picture of my engine. You circled the banjo bolt several times, above and to the left of the engine hoist hook. That is where the fuel enters the fuel rail. The other end of that hose attaches to your fuel filter and fuel will pour out of it when you switch the ignition on. Disconnect the line there and that is the only place fuel will come out when you turn the ignition to "on". As mr22ov states, from that point the fuel pressurizes the fuel rail and the excess returns to the gas tank. It passes through the injector rail to the pressure regulator (now we are at the passenger side), down a short piece of rubber hose, then through the hard steel line under the throttle bodies (back to the drivers side) to the rubber hose under the hook right next to the white wire tie. From the wire tie the fuel continues it's journey to the hard pipe next to the filter,[via rubber hose (connected with the circled once brass fittings on my engine)] then to another rubber hose and connects to a hard pipe leading back to the gas tank. A bit of practical theory: Pumps don't make pressure, pumps make fluids move, it's the restriction of that movement (flow) that causes pressure. The fuel pump supplies a given amount of flow to the bottom of the filter and then to the fuel rail at the banjo bolt. It counts on the pressure regulator to restrict that flow and thus maintain a constant pressure in the fuel rail for the injectors to use as required. In order for the injectors to always have enough fuel pressure there must be extra flow capacity in the system. The Toyota engineers built this in by using a higher flow pump than was required and sending the excess back to the tank. I hope this helps.

08-28-2008, 09:54 AM	#42 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	It does indeed. I believe the reason I am not getting pressure is because I hooked up some vacuum hoses wrong. I'm currently waitiing on my hose kit. it is supposed to have complete instructions... I'll see whats wrong once that arrives.

09-15-2008, 10:52 AM	#44 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	OK! Got the battery, went to start it. and no fuel Spit out!!!!! however, it won't turn all the way over. I''m gonna hook up the throttle cable so I can pump the pedal while I turn it. (i'm by myself) Anything really dumb I may have forgotten you can suggest?

09-15-2008, 05:25 PM	#45 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The Spark i'm getting off of the first firing coil (before it his the dizzy) is a dull orange. Shouldn't it be a nice bright blue?

09-15-2008, 06:42 PM	#46 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Compression is shot... bad all over the place. sometimes getting 40, sometimes 112. I think it is supposed to be between about 140 and 160ish... Retiming... Anyone still read this? I feel like I'm posting a Journal.... Help?

09-15-2008, 11:58 PM	#47 (permalink)
tjmr2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 410 Thanks: 0 Thanked 62 Times in 59 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Got it running, GOOD for you!!! Set your timing per the BGB, if it's running spark intensity isn't your highest priority. A compression check doesn't tell the whole story. Do a leak down test to determine the real problem, Google will provide lots of information on the subject, the tester is easy to build and use. The leak down test will tell you where you are losing compression, valves, rings. Is the same cylinder providing the varying compression or is #1 @ 40 and #2 @ 120?

09-16-2008, 12:21 AM	#48 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Thanks for the reply TJ, thought I was alone.... Just spent 2 hours connecting the spring for the tensioner. (only took 5 minutes once I disconnected the timing belt) I think that is why my Compression tests were acting so weird. Timing belt was flopping and jumping teeth every 1/4th of a revolution. I've got to go get a pry bar so I can put the belt back on. That tensioner is way TIGHT now. so i'm done for the night until I can get some parts. As far as doing the timing. The cams point up and towards each other, with the motor at TDC right? and. what is BGB? that the mr2 manual? umm... big green book? I'm using the Blacktop manual. it should work right?

09-19-2008, 01:40 AM	#49 (permalink)
tjmr2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 410 Thanks: 0 Thanked 62 Times in 59 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	BGB = Big Green Book, The MR2 manual, for the 89 at least has green and black covers and is about 2" thick, thus BGB. Stock timing for the 89 is 10 deg BTDC, which is about where I set mine, hard to see on the BT but I'm real close. Cams, belt and tensioner. I replaced the cam belt on mine, and the seal and oil in the tensioner as well as the tensioner pulley and bearing. (I'm funny that way, I'd rather spend money now than have to go back in three months and replace parts that are 50K + mile old. But that's just me.) The 16 valve has a spring that you use to adjust the tension on the cam belt, the 20v BT uses an entirely different hydraulic spring device to hold the cam belt tight. It bolts on the intake side of the engine above the crankshaft pulley. You have to grind a notch in your alternator bracket (16v) to get it to fit on the engine around the tensioner. But use the 20v alternator if you can as it's electrical outputs are lower and don't hit the airbox. Cam timing according to the original 89 BGB - Timing marks on both cams straight up, knock pin on intake side just about straight up about 11:30 on a clock and the exhaust about 5:30. Hope this helps.

09-20-2008, 04:00 PM	#50 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Timing is good now. It keeps overheating however. Waterpump is moving, I removed the thermostat to check flow. Don't even know if that is working or not. My radiator fans are not working, thats my main concern. Anyone know what those run to, and/or how to rig them to the ignition. (thats safe right?)

09-20-2008, 09:06 PM	#51 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	So.... which way does the thermostat go into? and how do I rig my fans to run? is there a better way?

09-21-2008, 07:28 PM	#52 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	so figured out thermostat only goes one way. Anyone know of what wire is the ignition wire?

09-22-2008, 11:24 AM	#53 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Ok, did some research and disconnected the sensor by the radiator. YES! Fans started spinning. and now I have instructions (with pictures) on how to properly fill my coolant and get the air out.. One step closer...

09-22-2008, 07:19 PM	#54 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Cooling system fixed. ( I hope) now i'm having engine issues. feels like im on 3 cylinders. about to check. also gotta verify my ecu codes.

10-30-2008, 05:21 AM	#55 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Moving along. BT is in. Compression check is not good. When I added a bit of oil (teaspoon) where the spark plugs go, compression shot up to correct. However. My battery started dying so i'm pretty sure it was giving me false readings the 3rd time. As far as the oil goes... what does that mean? My timing is perfect this time. I'm sure of it.

10-30-2008, 09:27 AM	#56 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,529 Thanks: 13 Thanked 176 Times in 147 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	If your comp is down, you can move your ST internals over to your BT. What are your comp numbers? I suppose adding the oil could boost even normal numbers. Wow, if it's not one thing it's another. Since it's in, I'd just slap it back together and see how it does.

10-30-2008, 11:34 AM	#57 (permalink)
kazin1111 Weak Skills Join Date: Feb 2008 Posts: 122 Thanks: 11 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Comp normal was 60, 90, 120 140. with oil was 120, 190, 190, 195. however, I tested these out of order with different wait times. I also forgot to do it with wide open throttle. I"m not seeing a place for the map sensor plug to go. I'll check my old motor. I may be missing the sensor. I also don't see the IAT sensor, so I don't know where to plug that in either..