2zzge mkl?

mr2death · 08-11-2008, 05:24 AM

Has anyone discussed this swap yet? I tried a search but came up with nothing. I have been looking at potential engine swaps into a mkl and the 2zzge seems like strong, new, and respectively powerful engine. Plus there is quite a bit of after market performance parts for these engines like supercharger and turbo kits. I mean if you swap this you basically have a low budget lotus

. Does anyone know if this engine shares engine mounts with the mkl? Lastly would this even be legal in California? Thanks for any input.

kirkosaurus · 08-11-2008, 08:30 AM

Jeff did this swap:
MR2ZZ: First MKI MR2 with 2ZZ-GE transplant - St Louis Metro, Missouri

You can see more details on his swap on the "other MR2 board", user name blown59.

mr220v · 08-11-2008, 10:14 AM

It should be possible to make it California legal. It's 75% boltin. The pass side motor mount is somewhat different.

curvesrgood · 08-11-2008, 12:48 PM

My buddy just is doing this swap into his spyder right now... I was thinking one would sure look nice in the back of my 86 shell out back... hmm. BTW looks like jeff needs a set of my side scoops, lol... that's an aweful big hole he's got there! His fiberglass deal is pretty trick (aside from being really limiting in the size of filter you can use... I use one about 2+ times the size of that, on mine, and it seems to LOVE it... and it is just a 4age). I didn't see anything about a 6 speed either... I gathered from what Ed was saying that RPM's may drop below the second cam if you don't use a 6 speed with this motor. This clearly bumps the price of a swap much higher!

mr220v · 08-11-2008, 01:02 PM

It's a swap I've been wanting to wire for for a while now.

The main thing that stops people from doing this swap is the cost of the motor. A motor and tranny is $2500+. More than what most mr2's are worth.

From what people say, staying on lift is important, so going with a 5speed is going to cost performance.

I've wondered if you could just use an rpm activated switch to lower the engagement point?

curvesrgood · 08-11-2008, 01:18 PM

Yeah, they definately spent a bit on the swap... luckily we've got a friend that does swaps in his garage at home so he's been toying with it on his days off and in the afternoons (mechanic). I think things are coming along nicely so far!

I've wondered if there would be a way to adjust when the cam-change occurs too, but that definately isn't an area I know anything about.

Ed and I had chatted a few times about the 6-speed and he was worried the motor wouldn't perform up to full potential without the shifting points of the 6-speed... made sense to me and I agreed, so that's the route they ended up going. He also had some dented intake runners from shipping damage... I need to find out if the engine seller "made it right." Oh, and I just remembered the good pictures of the damage are on my camera... oops, better make sure he doesn't need them!!

I've been offered a free, running 4age to drop in my 86 hardtop shell out back, so I may just toss a few goodies on it, put in new bearings, put a 5 speed in the car and call that one "done" for now. At least I could get it on the road fairly cheaply like that! I had been thinking about a beams swap or the blacktop 20v for my shell, but a slightly built 4age motor for a hardtop with almost no interior still sounds kinda fun. Then again... that light car with a meaner motor would be rediculous quick I'd imagine.

mr220v · 08-11-2008, 02:58 PM

There was one year of celica gts where the ecu engaged lift too high to keep the engine on the higher cam all the time (2002 I think). It was slower than the years that stay in lift, but not that much worse.

If I were trying to accomplish a budget 2zz swap, I think the 6speed would be the first thing to go.

mr2death · 08-12-2008, 04:49 AM

so 2500+ for a 2zz-ge swap hunh? isnt that rougly what 3sgte swap cost? How reliable of an engine is the 2zz-ge? Does anyone know what kind of hp these engines put out? How about supercharged or turboed? would there even be room in the engine bay for forced induction?

mr220v · 08-12-2008, 09:36 AM

Your main advantage over swapping to an S series engine would be that you won't have to fool with rewelding motor mounts. As for cost of the motor, this is one of the most expensive options for the mk1, though a mk1.5 would end up more after everything was said and done. Again, the main advantage is that this is an easier swap, and can be completed in a shorter period of time by somebody with less mechanical expertise. Using a c56 tranny would get the cost down by about $800.

Another option, which nobody has tried with a 20v, would be to use the new belfab rods with the 7afe block, and use an 82mm piston. This would get you to true 1.8L, and the 20v would work better with the 5 speed tranny (no lift to worry about). Just using the rods would get you just shy of 1.8L. A 7afe has almost the same rod and stroke ratio as the 2zz.

IMO, you don't go with either a 2zz or 20v for the forced induction options. You can turbocharge the 16v, or even a 4afe, and get good results. The 2zz is fairly reliable, though it's about the most thrashed motor there is. Because you have to hit lift to see power, certain people will have them past 7k at every stoplight.

If you wanted something FI, the last version of the 4agze would be a winner. 180hp stock.

blown59 · 08-12-2008, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curvesrgood

BTW looks like jeff needs a set of my side scoops, lol... that's an aweful big hole he's got there!

I guess I need to update my pics... I have the second side vent now complete with louver invert mod. I also replicated a mod seen on a few other cars. I removed the upper middle and bottom louver, leaving just the second and fourth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by curvesrgood

I didn't see anything about a 6 speed either...

Hmmm... yes, running the 6spd... its a must have with this swap... its like a corona w/out the lime... you just dont do it

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2death

How reliable of an engine is the 2zz-ge? Does anyone know what kind of hp these engines put out?

Just as reliable as any other toyota engine, as long as its well maintained. And I consistantly dynoed 163whp and 119ft/lb on a dynojet with a 4th gear pull... this was on my second trip to the dyno. My first trip netted a 161 and 117ft/lb. I was curious if the magnaflow exhaust had hurt the performance any from my cheapy cherrybomb turbo muffler. I also upgraded the piping to 2.25 from 2".

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2death

would there even be room in the engine bay for forced induction?

Yes there is room, dont ask me how I know...

And the car is running superbly! Ive put a few more miles on the car this summer than I usually do. I think I'm nearing about 6k on the car since the swap.

curvesrgood · 08-12-2008, 10:00 AM

Awesome! Glad you chimed in, I hoped to hear some feedback from someone who had done this, very cool! Thanks for the info and posting to fill us in! Looks like I'm going to be mulling some options here

.

mr220v · 08-12-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curvesrgood

Awesome! Glad you chimed in, I hoped to hear some feedback from someone who had done this, very cool! Thanks for the info and posting to fill us in! Looks like I'm going to be mulling some options here

.

Someone who's done this? To my knowledge, he's the only one to have done this so far.

You would pay a price for using a 5speed, but if it's not in the budget, it's not in the budget. You could potentially get a powerFC and adjust the lift point downward, though for the money you could have just bought the 6speed in the first place. It might make sense if you were planning future/heavy mods.

blown59 · 08-12-2008, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr220v

You would pay a price for using a 5speed, but if it's not in the budget, it's not in the budget. You could potentially get a powerFC and adjust the lift point downward, though for the money you could have just bought the 6speed in the first place. It might make sense if you were planning future/heavy mods.

Doug, you make some valid points... But IMHO, if your going to drop money to do a swap, wouldnt you want it to perform as you hoped?? Would you buy a 20v BT and mate it with some inapropriately geared 5spd just to say you have a BT?? I suppose if it were a must have and someone just had to say "I have a 2ZZ" I might see that line of reasoning. I really dont think that person will then be happy with the performance nor do I think they would they advocate the swap. I dont think the friends would be too impressed either. You will see improvement, but not near its potential.

Everyone has choices, I just feel you should see the maximum return on your investment.

Who knows, maybe Im wrong and the C-52 etc... would out perform my expected loss. Just my 2 cents. I just want everyone to be fully informed before making a decision.

mr220v · 08-12-2008, 01:41 PM

A c56 probably wouldn't be horribly geared for the 2zz. 3rd and 4th are shorter, though probably not quite close enough to stay in lift. Maybe I should see if I can keep lift rpms up next time I drive my blacktop.

Part of the problem is that the 2zz really acts like 2 different engines. It's 1zz like below lift. I think it was your friend with the 20v that said that his car sortof kept up with yours until lift, and then the 2zz quickly ran away from him.

I wouldn't recommend the 5speed unless the swap just doesn't get done any other way. Besides, it will be faster than a blacktop either way.

ve2dict · 11-30-2008, 06:17 PM

very nice i was leaning towards a 3sgte swap but i liking the 2zz....now to find one....think id be better off trying to find a totaled celica gts here in the states rather then buying jdm

mr220v · 12-01-2008, 01:06 PM

Probably shouldn't matter either way. I can wire for this swap off of a cut jdm harness.

ve2dict · 12-01-2008, 04:36 PM

yeah im just thinking it might be cheaper to buy a totaled car here in the states then go with the 3500$ jdm. with the totaled car u would definitly get everything atleast. ill have to mention to my impounding friend to keep a lookout for one

DrWonderEyes · 12-02-2008, 08:57 AM

a 4agze would be better. and it goes in way easier. and can take a beating.... iron block and all.

the 2zz has just a weight advantage since its way lighter than iron block 4age/gze engines.

the only thing that perplexes me is where does that guy put the gas in his car. since he has dual vents. i dont see where the fuel filler door is now.

Toyo_Boyo · 02-11-2009, 03:16 PM

Hey guys...I'm new to the forum but have been interested in performing this swap. There's some good info here and have some toyota tech buddies so i'm not too worried about the swap itself. Locating a good engine is the hard part. I have a friend who basically totaled his Celica GT-S with 90k miles on it. I was gonna offer him $3000 for the car so I could do this swap. Do you think that's fair or am I offering too much?

mr220v · 02-11-2009, 03:20 PM

Blown59 has his 2zzge up for sale. $6500 obo I think. Might be easier just to get that and save the trouble.

08-11-2008, 05:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
mr2death Some Skills Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hollister CA Posts: 56 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	2zzge mkl? Has anyone discussed this swap yet? I tried a search but came up with nothing. I have been looking at potential engine swaps into a mkl and the 2zzge seems like strong, new, and respectively powerful engine. Plus there is quite a bit of after market performance parts for these engines like supercharger and turbo kits. I mean if you swap this you basically have a low budget lotus. Does anyone know if this engine shares engine mounts with the mkl? Lastly would this even be legal in California? Thanks for any input.

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08-11-2008, 08:30 AM	#2 (permalink)
kirkosaurus No Skills Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Smyrna, TN Posts: 46 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Jeff did this swap: MR2ZZ: First MKI MR2 with 2ZZ-GE transplant - St Louis Metro, Missouri You can see more details on his swap on the "other MR2 board", user name blown59.

08-11-2008, 10:14 AM	#3 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,529 Thanks: 13 Thanked 176 Times in 147 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	It should be possible to make it California legal. It's 75% boltin. The pass side motor mount is somewhat different.

08-11-2008, 12:48 PM	#4 (permalink)
curvesrgood three mk1's Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: NC Posts: 499 Thanks: 8 Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	My buddy just is doing this swap into his spyder right now... I was thinking one would sure look nice in the back of my 86 shell out back... hmm. BTW looks like jeff needs a set of my side scoops, lol... that's an aweful big hole he's got there! His fiberglass deal is pretty trick (aside from being really limiting in the size of filter you can use... I use one about 2+ times the size of that, on mine, and it seems to LOVE it... and it is just a 4age). I didn't see anything about a 6 speed either... I gathered from what Ed was saying that RPM's may drop below the second cam if you don't use a 6 speed with this motor. This clearly bumps the price of a swap much higher!

08-11-2008, 01:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,529 Thanks: 13 Thanked 176 Times in 147 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	It's a swap I've been wanting to wire for for a while now. The main thing that stops people from doing this swap is the cost of the motor. A motor and tranny is $2500+. More than what most mr2's are worth. From what people say, staying on lift is important, so going with a 5speed is going to cost performance. I've wondered if you could just use an rpm activated switch to lower the engagement point?

08-11-2008, 01:18 PM	#6 (permalink)
curvesrgood three mk1's Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: NC Posts: 499 Thanks: 8 Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Yeah, they definately spent a bit on the swap... luckily we've got a friend that does swaps in his garage at home so he's been toying with it on his days off and in the afternoons (mechanic). I think things are coming along nicely so far! I've wondered if there would be a way to adjust when the cam-change occurs too, but that definately isn't an area I know anything about. Ed and I had chatted a few times about the 6-speed and he was worried the motor wouldn't perform up to full potential without the shifting points of the 6-speed... made sense to me and I agreed, so that's the route they ended up going. He also had some dented intake runners from shipping damage... I need to find out if the engine seller "made it right." Oh, and I just remembered the good pictures of the damage are on my camera... oops, better make sure he doesn't need them!! I've been offered a free, running 4age to drop in my 86 hardtop shell out back, so I may just toss a few goodies on it, put in new bearings, put a 5 speed in the car and call that one "done" for now. At least I could get it on the road fairly cheaply like that! I had been thinking about a beams swap or the blacktop 20v for my shell, but a slightly built 4age motor for a hardtop with almost no interior still sounds kinda fun. Then again... that light car with a meaner motor would be rediculous quick I'd imagine.

08-11-2008, 02:58 PM	#7 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,529 Thanks: 13 Thanked 176 Times in 147 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	There was one year of celica gts where the ecu engaged lift too high to keep the engine on the higher cam all the time (2002 I think). It was slower than the years that stay in lift, but not that much worse. If I were trying to accomplish a budget 2zz swap, I think the 6speed would be the first thing to go.

08-12-2008, 04:49 AM	#8 (permalink)
mr2death Some Skills Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Hollister CA Posts: 56 Thanks: 3 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	so 2500+ for a 2zz-ge swap hunh? isnt that rougly what 3sgte swap cost? How reliable of an engine is the 2zz-ge? Does anyone know what kind of hp these engines put out? How about supercharged or turboed? would there even be room in the engine bay for forced induction?

08-12-2008, 09:36 AM	#9 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,529 Thanks: 13 Thanked 176 Times in 147 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	Your main advantage over swapping to an S series engine would be that you won't have to fool with rewelding motor mounts. As for cost of the motor, this is one of the most expensive options for the mk1, though a mk1.5 would end up more after everything was said and done. Again, the main advantage is that this is an easier swap, and can be completed in a shorter period of time by somebody with less mechanical expertise. Using a c56 tranny would get the cost down by about $800. Another option, which nobody has tried with a 20v, would be to use the new belfab rods with the 7afe block, and use an 82mm piston. This would get you to true 1.8L, and the 20v would work better with the 5 speed tranny (no lift to worry about). Just using the rods would get you just shy of 1.8L. A 7afe has almost the same rod and stroke ratio as the 2zz. IMO, you don't go with either a 2zz or 20v for the forced induction options. You can turbocharge the 16v, or even a 4afe, and get good results. The 2zz is fairly reliable, though it's about the most thrashed motor there is. Because you have to hit lift to see power, certain people will have them past 7k at every stoplight. If you wanted something FI, the last version of the 4agze would be a winner. 180hp stock.

08-12-2008, 10:00 AM	#11 (permalink)
curvesrgood three mk1's Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: NC Posts: 499 Thanks: 8 Thanked 33 Times in 28 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Awesome! Glad you chimed in, I hoped to hear some feedback from someone who had done this, very cool! Thanks for the info and posting to fill us in! Looks like I'm going to be mulling some options here .

08-12-2008, 01:41 PM	#14 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,529 Thanks: 13 Thanked 176 Times in 147 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	A c56 probably wouldn't be horribly geared for the 2zz. 3rd and 4th are shorter, though probably not quite close enough to stay in lift. Maybe I should see if I can keep lift rpms up next time I drive my blacktop. Part of the problem is that the 2zz really acts like 2 different engines. It's 1zz like below lift. I think it was your friend with the 20v that said that his car sortof kept up with yours until lift, and then the 2zz quickly ran away from him. I wouldn't recommend the 5speed unless the swap just doesn't get done any other way. Besides, it will be faster than a blacktop either way.

11-30-2008, 06:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
ve2dict Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 121 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	very nice i was leaning towards a 3sgte swap but i liking the 2zz....now to find one....think id be better off trying to find a totaled celica gts here in the states rather then buying jdm

12-01-2008, 01:06 PM	#16 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,529 Thanks: 13 Thanked 176 Times in 147 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	Probably shouldn't matter either way. I can wire for this swap off of a cut jdm harness.

12-01-2008, 04:36 PM	#17 (permalink)
ve2dict Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 121 Thanks: 4 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	yeah im just thinking it might be cheaper to buy a totaled car here in the states then go with the 3500$ jdm. with the totaled car u would definitly get everything atleast. ill have to mention to my impounding friend to keep a lookout for one

12-02-2008, 08:57 AM	#18 (permalink)
DrWonderEyes MR2 + 400hp = Fun Join Date: May 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 780 Thanks: 3 Thanked 16 Times in 16 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	a 4agze would be better. and it goes in way easier. and can take a beating.... iron block and all. the 2zz has just a weight advantage since its way lighter than iron block 4age/gze engines. the only thing that perplexes me is where does that guy put the gas in his car. since he has dual vents. i dont see where the fuel filler door is now.

02-11-2009, 03:16 PM	#19 (permalink)
Toyo_Boyo Toyota Corporate... Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow... Posts: 19 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Hey guys...I'm new to the forum but have been interested in performing this swap. There's some good info here and have some toyota tech buddies so i'm not too worried about the swap itself. Locating a good engine is the hard part. I have a friend who basically totaled his Celica GT-S with 90k miles on it. I was gonna offer him $3000 for the car so I could do this swap. Do you think that's fair or am I offering too much?

02-11-2009, 03:20 PM	#20 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,529 Thanks: 13 Thanked 176 Times in 147 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	Blown59 has his 2zzge up for sale. $6500 obo I think. Might be easier just to get that and save the trouble.