4A-GE MK1 Engine starting build

racer4ag · 01-07-2009, 10:17 PM

I was thinking about throughing some carbs on my mr2. I was wondering what i will need to do the convert to carbs and what my price range might be.

Thanks

lsgheero · 01-09-2009, 08:26 AM

look into webbers thats what I know most people who carb the 4a use

Weber Carburetors For Toyota

pricy tho

Papo J · 01-09-2009, 10:48 AM

Why would you want to do that? Just wondering.

lsgheero · 01-09-2009, 11:18 AM

personally I would just install a good set of ITB's

328FTW · 01-11-2009, 07:10 AM

Yeah by the time you get carbs all worked out you can do some better work to the engine that will bring up the horsepower and still start on a cold morning lol. I know someone who put carbs on their 4a and by the time it was jetted tuned and running right throughout the revs to 9000rpm they could have spent that time and money doing a turbo build or something. He had it custom jetted 3 times and that was not cheap, even "out of the box" carbs are not out of the box bolt ons.

racer4ag · 01-13-2009, 09:39 PM

I know carbs are not the easiest to tune and winter sucks lol, but my plans are to stick with N/A and not turbos. My plan is to keep it old school.

328FTW · 01-14-2009, 01:20 AM

What do you have against turbos. People seem to love this n/a power thing but after you have actually done a turbo build you discover that you suddenly have a lot of power to play with and the power band is much better on a for an equivalent turbo engine compared to an n/a build. Anyway that is beside the point, the guy that I previously mentioned has had more issues than you can imagine. It constantly runs on 3 cylinders because it overfuels and gunks the plugs, the distributor had to be converted to run without an ecu and sometimes decides it will not work. And it doesn't start on cold mornings, I even push started him once.

I would stick with fuel injection because unless you have supporting mods it will not make a huge difference and when you do do supporting mods you will probably have to retune the car again (and possibly rejet if you change internals). Also they run rough depending on the temperature, altitude and humidity. Someone good with carbies will be able to keep up with it but it is most defiantly not for the faint hearted.

Jackstand Queen · 02-10-2009, 09:02 PM

There won't be a lot of information on this forum for carburated engines. You might try the old school 60's muscle car websites. They are located right next to the Model T websites.

mr2_jake · 09-02-2009, 09:56 PM

Well, atleast I'm a fan of the idea! I'm in the process myself. What did i hear about "custom jetting"? None needed, just hook up a wideband sensor and grab your flat head screw driver. Here is a short list of the main pieces you need:

-Intake manifold to bolt on carbs

-Carburetors of your choice

-high volume, low pressure fuel pump

-fittings, hoses, etc..

-some hand tools, and some basic carb knowledge

My conversion is very close, I would like to see someone else attempt the same!

Jackstand Queen · 09-03-2009, 12:50 AM

4 carbs mounted on a 4age. Its been done 20 years ago. They called it Formula Atlantic. They produced around 200 HP without boost.

The Formula Atlantic engines were rather short-lived and didn't get good mileage either.

328FTW · 09-03-2009, 02:07 AM

I'm still against carbs I know someone with 13:1 compression and twin sidedrafts on his 4age. He wishes he stuck with fuel injection it just gets out of tune so easily especially racing it in all weather. And the jets do need to be matched to the engine or they are just too hard to tune ask my dad he used to have triple carbs on a straight 6 that he raced and he is an old school carbie guy and he still could not keep it in tune. A simple fuel computer can do wonders when combined with a couple mods and it is still cheap/easy.

mr2_jake · 09-03-2009, 10:48 AM

I guess it depends on the owner. I have been tinkering with all things carbureted since the womb. Fuel injection may be able to "do what carbs can better", but EFI can't do it for the same price, or give the same nostalgic feel. Some people are just old skoolers. If the carbs are tuned correctly (with a synchrometer and wideband o2 sensor), there shouldn't be any problems. I had (before it was totaled) a 280zx with a chevy 292 cam running triple webers and it ran beautifully, hot or cold, even thru Montana winter (not too mention plenty of power to spare!!!). And that was with the cold-starts blanked! All it ever needed was a few little idle/mixture adjustments, depending on the weather of course. Once you learn the basics of how to tune carbs, and rejet them, it is sooo simple. Rejetting takes all of 10 minutes. Now 2 of those webers are about to find there way to my 4AGE, due to the fact that it is a redtop with bluetop crap (injectors, fuel rail, wiring harness, ecu) and is not running to is full potential. That and the fact that the cost of the carbs, loads of extra jets, chokes and all other parts required was still cheaper than either buying the redtop fuel injectors, ecu, etc... or buying aftermarket fuel controllers. It is true that the carb conversion is not for the faint of heart!!! You do need some previous experience, but if you know what you're doing, it is well worth it!
I'm not sayin that carbs are better than EFI, only that they are waaaaay more unique, fun, and so utterly and extremely basic and simple. Its all about the DIY! I don't need computers to tell my engine what to do!

Could it get any easier?!?! Lets see this done with EFI hahaha:

You Tube

328FTW · 09-03-2009, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2_jake

Its all about the DIY!

You have no idea how DIY my car is

The weather in NZ is so inconsistent to the point of having 4 seasons a day racing in the forest it can be warm one end of the track and have an icy frost at the other it's weird and carb cars hate it. Also for about $700 I can set up a stand alone system in my car (I'm still trying to find time in between other jobs to wire it in) and then I can do whatever I want Protip:Whatever = get boosted

Standalone system tuning is in every bit an artform as tuning carbs, a bit of skill, a bit of patience and a bit of WOT testing. I also wipe the floor with the carb 4age he put his money into carbs/pistons I put it into putting in an EFI 3sge, I don't know if you would consider that cheating though

mr2_jake · 09-03-2009, 12:35 PM

I'm right there with you on the DIY. I still got you on cost tho, and thats for evvverything, from fuel delivery to the air filters, then again I scored a hella good deal... I can understand why you would suggest EFI with your climate, sounds wild. In that case I don't think I would go carb'd. Luckily my area is not like that at all, with very consistent temperatures year round. Very possible to boost carbs as well

What do you think the pioneers of turbos were originally testing on? Your "whatever you want" theory is quite true, except for the fact that if you do decide to go further, such as turbo, you will need to upgrade things like fuel pump and injectors. Not to mention with EFI you need the stand alone system, computer to tune it, and software to tune it with. With the carb all you need is a boost-ready carb, jets to play with and a screw driver.. Much cheaper!!! Again, I am not dissing fuel injection, I agree it is great, but in my opinion, it is not great for every application. I'm just saying the same possibilities are achievable. Point is, some people just don't have time and money to mess with computers and wiring, and just prefer the raw, old skool feel of a carb'd motor. The most wiring needed for the carb swap is a power and ground for fuel pump

Its just so simple and straightforward!

Also, 3SGE will inevitably be faster/more powerful as it is a 2.0 compared to the 4A's 1.6. Have you ever seen a carb'd 3SGE

? I bet it would give you a run for your money!

01-07-2009, 10:17 PM	#1 (permalink)
racer4ag No Skills Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	starting build I was thinking about throughing some carbs on my mr2. I was wondering what i will need to do the convert to carbs and what my price range might be. Thanks

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

01-09-2009, 08:26 AM	#2 (permalink)
lsgheero RAR! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 747 Thanks: 9 Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	look into webbers thats what I know most people who carb the 4a use Weber Carburetors For Toyota pricy tho

01-09-2009, 10:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
Papo J 6SPD GTE Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 588 Thanks: 2 Thanked 50 Times in 49 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Why would you want to do that? Just wondering.

01-09-2009, 11:18 AM	#4 (permalink)
lsgheero RAR! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 747 Thanks: 9 Thanked 31 Times in 31 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	personally I would just install a good set of ITB's

01-11-2009, 07:10 AM	#5 (permalink)
328FTW Crazy Nasty Honey Badger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,222 Thanks: 24 Thanked 266 Times in 239 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Yeah by the time you get carbs all worked out you can do some better work to the engine that will bring up the horsepower and still start on a cold morning lol. I know someone who put carbs on their 4a and by the time it was jetted tuned and running right throughout the revs to 9000rpm they could have spent that time and money doing a turbo build or something. He had it custom jetted 3 times and that was not cheap, even "out of the box" carbs are not out of the box bolt ons.

01-13-2009, 09:39 PM	#6 (permalink)
racer4ag No Skills Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I know carbs are not the easiest to tune and winter sucks lol, but my plans are to stick with N/A and not turbos. My plan is to keep it old school.

01-14-2009, 01:20 AM	#7 (permalink)
328FTW Crazy Nasty Honey Badger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,222 Thanks: 24 Thanked 266 Times in 239 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	What do you have against turbos. People seem to love this n/a power thing but after you have actually done a turbo build you discover that you suddenly have a lot of power to play with and the power band is much better on a for an equivalent turbo engine compared to an n/a build. Anyway that is beside the point, the guy that I previously mentioned has had more issues than you can imagine. It constantly runs on 3 cylinders because it overfuels and gunks the plugs, the distributor had to be converted to run without an ecu and sometimes decides it will not work. And it doesn't start on cold mornings, I even push started him once. I would stick with fuel injection because unless you have supporting mods it will not make a huge difference and when you do do supporting mods you will probably have to retune the car again (and possibly rejet if you change internals). Also they run rough depending on the temperature, altitude and humidity. Someone good with carbies will be able to keep up with it but it is most defiantly not for the faint hearted.

02-10-2009, 09:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	There won't be a lot of information on this forum for carburated engines. You might try the old school 60's muscle car websites. They are located right next to the Model T websites.

09-02-2009, 09:56 PM	#9 (permalink)
mr2_jake Many skills... Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Billings, MT Posts: 83 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Well, atleast I'm a fan of the idea! I'm in the process myself. What did i hear about "custom jetting"? None needed, just hook up a wideband sensor and grab your flat head screw driver. Here is a short list of the main pieces you need: -Intake manifold to bolt on carbs -Carburetors of your choice -high volume, low pressure fuel pump -fittings, hoses, etc.. -some hand tools, and some basic carb knowledge My conversion is very close, I would like to see someone else attempt the same!

09-03-2009, 12:50 AM	#10 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	4 carbs mounted on a 4age. Its been done 20 years ago. They called it Formula Atlantic. They produced around 200 HP without boost. The Formula Atlantic engines were rather short-lived and didn't get good mileage either.

09-03-2009, 02:07 AM	#11 (permalink)
328FTW Crazy Nasty Honey Badger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,222 Thanks: 24 Thanked 266 Times in 239 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I'm still against carbs I know someone with 13:1 compression and twin sidedrafts on his 4age. He wishes he stuck with fuel injection it just gets out of tune so easily especially racing it in all weather. And the jets do need to be matched to the engine or they are just too hard to tune ask my dad he used to have triple carbs on a straight 6 that he raced and he is an old school carbie guy and he still could not keep it in tune. A simple fuel computer can do wonders when combined with a couple mods and it is still cheap/easy.

09-03-2009, 12:35 PM	#14 (permalink)
mr2_jake Many skills... Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Billings, MT Posts: 83 Thanks: 0 Thanked 7 Times in 7 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I'm right there with you on the DIY. I still got you on cost tho, and thats for evvverything, from fuel delivery to the air filters, then again I scored a hella good deal... I can understand why you would suggest EFI with your climate, sounds wild. In that case I don't think I would go carb'd. Luckily my area is not like that at all, with very consistent temperatures year round. Very possible to boost carbs as well What do you think the pioneers of turbos were originally testing on? Your "whatever you want" theory is quite true, except for the fact that if you do decide to go further, such as turbo, you will need to upgrade things like fuel pump and injectors. Not to mention with EFI you need the stand alone system, computer to tune it, and software to tune it with. With the carb all you need is a boost-ready carb, jets to play with and a screw driver.. Much cheaper!!! Again, I am not dissing fuel injection, I agree it is great, but in my opinion, it is not great for every application. I'm just saying the same possibilities are achievable. Point is, some people just don't have time and money to mess with computers and wiring, and just prefer the raw, old skool feel of a carb'd motor. The most wiring needed for the carb swap is a power and ground for fuel pump Its just so simple and straightforward! Also, 3SGE will inevitably be faster/more powerful as it is a 2.0 compared to the 4A's 1.6. Have you ever seen a carb'd 3SGE ? I bet it would give you a run for your money!