GZE swap, running rich and problems with idol.

Krimzen · 02-10-2009, 06:48 PM

Whats up guys, This may take a while to explain bc I need to list the parts I have replaced in the car and some of the other things I have done to it. Any help with this project would be greatly appreciated.

1988 Mr2 (n/a)

engine swapped with a 4agze (bought the engine, computer, wiring harness and (C52 manual trans).

I did not have a body harness. I used my stock wires when I transplanted it in my 88 N/A.

I had the engine and head rebuilt by a professional,

trans rebuilt by a professional.

Now for the stuff the pertains to my problem. I will only list the aftermarket parts I replaced that are relative to the issue at hand.

HKS Cams (264 duration, 8 mm lift)

Fidanza adj. cam gears

Cylinder head was milled

HKS mega flow air system

Venom injectors (10% more) I know, they suck from what I hear.

Stock fuel pump. (tried Venom, went bad shortly)

Super coil (accel)

Fidanza aluminum flywheel

Large Boost Junkey Crank Pulley

Cybermax huge tube header

Full HKS exhaust, cat eliminated

The car runs fine at 5000 RPS's. (Crazy powerful)

It idols like there is a giant air bubble in my coolant. I have bleed it many times and it still continues to reverberate the idol. The idol goes from about 2000 to 2500 and then back to 2000, over and over and a fairly quick rythym. This only happens after it warms up a bit. When it's cold it idols at 2000-3000 rpms's. Higher that it should on cold start.

It smells like a very rich whiff of gasoline. I refuse to run it for too long bc I do not want to damage the pistons.

My timing is set to zero on the factory marks. I have checked it a million times. On a test drive it is not too bad at a higher RPM level. Still, it seems like it should be running better.

What if bc of my cams, being at a diff. duration, would make it to where my old factory marks do not apply, (as far as the cam position).???? Would this cause symptoms at idol like my car has.

What if my 80's Computer system is not capable of controlling the new sorroundings. Its could be like putting a ten year olds' brain into Michael Jordan and telling him to slam dunk....

Also, my engine light remains off during this whole process.

So I am thinking of going with the Greddy EMan system. Its a bit expensive but I am ready to give up.

Id appreciate any help that you guys have to offer.

Jerry P. (Atlanta, Ga)

Jackstand Queen · 02-10-2009, 08:38 PM

Whoah, that's a nice collection of SC parts you got there pardner!

Actually, that Fidanza makes my mouth water. Mm mm m . .. . Fidanza . . . . .

I think you may have made the same mistake that I did with my swap and upgrades. I did too many things to the engine all at one throw. As a result, I sent it to a garage for four months because I was beyond ready to throw in the Towel. And you are about to throw in a whole new level of complexity with a programable stand-alone EMS. With due respect, I think you are jumping the gun on the EMS.

When you do upgrades one at a time, you get pretty good feedback on that bit of work. When you throw a half dozen at it at once, . . . its even probable that one Mod. exaggerates the problem that another Mod. is causing.

O.K. getting off my soapbox, lets look at your bouncing idle problem.

1. Pull codes off ECU, there's a sticky in this website on a low (no tech) tech way to do it.
2. Double check TPS for adjustment and Ohm resistance between terminals to be within Spec.
3. Listen for Vacuum leaks, or spray a small quantity of brake cleaner at suspect areas. Listen for engine idle to change slightly.
4. Find and correct the fuel leak. Its most likely located in or around the fuel rail.
5. Pull ABV out and test function with vacuum guage. They can get totally gummed up over a couple of decades. It might need cleaning inside.

I and quite a few others cheer on your efforts and accomplishments with your swap!

ebouwman · 02-10-2009, 08:43 PM

The engine light stays on the WHOLE time? or just at idle?

I would check what's causing the light first off, because it can be just one simple thing that does it. Here's a page on how to check it.

http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/jimilawso...U%20Codes.html

And with the cams, they are supposed to be on their own specific timing, with every set of custom cams you're supposed to get a little card that tells you what timing to set them to, i don't know how to really set that, but if you have them set to factory specs it would mess with it.

New cams with a longer duration/bigger lift will make it idle rougher, but at 2000 it should be fine, but again, i don't know what idle they should be at to run smooth. When the engine isn't warm it's supposed to idle a little higher, and that sounds like why it only idles bad when it's warmed.

If you're smelling fuel, check for fuel leaks. Sounds stupid, but i had a leaking fuel pulsation damper and it threw off the mix and made if run rough, and smelled like gas. take a look around.

I don't really know about the ecu though. I do know that if you are making too much power it can mess it up, but i don't know at what point. Sounds like a sweet set up though.

ebouwman · 02-10-2009, 08:49 PM

Bill Sherwood's Modified 4AGE Page

In this article he says that at a 264 you might run into trouble with the stock ECU. It's worth the read.

328FTW · 02-10-2009, 09:23 PM

Once you start messing with cams combined with lighter flywheels things happen. Not always but normally the car idles like a pig. My engine used to run some quite wild regrinds for cams and a lightweight flywheel and moving off from an intersection was a task and a half. Also idled like it had rocks in the intake, I went back to a stock head and cams and removed the flywheel and put it on my n/a and it idled perfectly again. I just didn't need that hassle on a daily driver.

There is one thing that can get out of whack, On the intake there is a white box looking sensor (there is on all mine) with 3 wires coming out. Unplug it and see if things improve, it is a sensor that helps control idle and they can get messed up, it may help or make it worse but try it anyway.

Krimzen · 02-10-2009, 11:04 PM

thanks, thats alot of help already.

I did the TPS adjustments a while back; it was actually set right. It was not easy to put it back. I have done the ABV mod, for bybass purposes. I have not really checked the IAC though, maybe I have an issue there.

The engine light, actually stays off, but I have not tried retrieving any stored trouble codes if there are any.

I def. need to try that white sensor idea that plugs onto the intake, I havent looked yet but I will tomorrow during the day, I am sure it is not too hard to find.

Gas leaks! That is def. a possibility. I did put an aftermarket FPR (rising rate) which I forgot to mention... sorry. I went the expensive route with it bc I had bad luck with the cheap (non rising rate) ebay one. I also had to replace the existing reinforced rubber fuel lines with the aftermarket ones at Napa, they feel softer than the factory lines.

Is the Greddy that much of a head ache? Are there any good stories or is it just a big pain in the a** to hook it all up and tune it correctly. Maybe it is not worth the money.

I appreciate all of the help. I will dig deeper tomorrow.

Jackstand Queen · 02-11-2009, 02:48 AM

Is the Greddy a plug and play installation? Would you need to put in different TPS, ignition system and temperature sensors, as in the case of the Megasquirt DYI version? Would you need to rewire every wire that's goes into, or out of the current ECU?

That impressive list of mods is beginning to sound like its at the very least "in the gray zone" between needing an aftermarket EMS, and keeping the oem ECU. The EMS would need at least one programmable special control channel to run the SC clutch relay.

Another really important number in your setup is the Fuel Pressure at the fuel rail. I had 58 PSI going to my 440Cc injectors . . . doh! That was my major malfunction. I put the OEM 365's back in . . . and that got it running pretty good.

The white box on the intake with 3 wires going to is (I think) the Idle Air Control. Its located on the rear side of the TB. It has a lot to do with the warm up cycle and normal idling. I had mine adjusted with the connectors as far forward (to nose of car) as possible, and it still idled high.

Bill Clinton often said "I feel your pain". Only when I say it, its sincere. I feel your Pain.

Krimzen · 02-11-2009, 02:32 PM

I am gonna try some test today and see if I can come up with some more symptoms or better yet, a solution.

I do not know too much about the installation of the Greddy Eman. I hear some good things about it but I also hear that it is a pain to integrate in the system. I think you do have to replace the sensors bc a wiring harness has to be bought separately.

I let everyone know whats going on.

Jackstand Queen · 02-11-2009, 02:50 PM

Hang in there. There was a point that I hated my car. I would have loved to watch it being dropped into a pool of lava.

Now I love it. It makes the ordinary drudgery of driving fun!

Krimzen · 02-11-2009, 08:47 PM

This project has been off and on for about five years now. Of course I drove the N/A before I bought the SC engine.

I drove the original 88 na motor all the way around the country. I have posts of the pics from that journey on here I believe. I even made it to Oregon, (Of course I stopped at Humboldt County for some R&R) on my way up. Stayed at Reed for a while and made my way up to Seattle.

I had 250,000 miles on the car when I replaced it with the GZE; I still have the orig. motor sitting in my garage.

I ll never give up on the Mister two. I own 2 (mark 1's), and a turbo 2nd gen. I also recently bought a shell Corolla GTS (ae86). Money and time, money and time. Maybe one day I will have all of them running!

I still need to dig further into my car. I have high hopes...

I appreciate all of the help.

HoLun · 02-12-2009, 02:25 AM

the emanage blue is a fancy MAF interceptor with lots of other feature. I would not use anything to fool the ecu with altered afm signal, as this changes how the ECU see engine load, which is a quick way to blow up an engine.

the emanage ultimate is a piggy back that have its own injector drivers, timing control and alot of features, and dont require to alter AFM signal to change injector duty cycle.

both are piggy back units.

I have the ultimate and it works fine, been running for about 1 year, as long as its in open loop mode. otherwise the stock ecu will fight to get the engine to burn at 14.7:1 AFR, that meas massive fuel trim changes in both the EMU and Factory ECU if you use AFR Target in closed loop operation. Greddy have developed the F-Manage to remedy the problem but I have not seen it in the american market.

I have a adjustable o2 signal generator that I am going to feed it the the stock ecu to see 14.7 all the time and will try to see if it will work good with the ultimate in full EGO feed back control.

I also have build a MSII to use in parallel mode if the ultimate don't perform like I wanted to.

but all the comes after I finish swapping out the blown engine.
which I will be dropping the engine out and swapping external parts tomorrow.

Krimzen · 02-12-2009, 02:46 PM

I just keep racking up time trying to find a ploblem that does not exist, I think.

I do not seem to be leaking fuel. The rich smell is def. coming out of the exhaust. I am not to sure about the IAC valve.

Lets just say everything that I have done is ok and good to go. Then that would def. make it worth the 7 or 8 hundred dollars for the Greddy Eman, given that my old ECU will not operate the new muscles I gave it.

Tell me, will it take a pro to wire this thing in my car. I know electricity but only as far as a stereo installer.

Either way, b4 I make the jump to Greddy I still want to do some more test to make sure I actually need it.

Thanks alot.

Jackstand Queen · 02-12-2009, 05:17 PM

I am using a 21 year old SC ECU. I have a spare SC ECU as a backup. If I am ever forced to use the spare, at that point, I'll start putting together an EMS. And it must truly be a Standalone.

I wouldn't want to piggy back either ECU . . . simply because of their age. In PC terms, how reliable would a 1987 IBM PC running at 33 hrz be? Would you want to go out a buy a new motherboard, CD burner, case, RAM, etc for it?

I've looked into the Megasquirt pretty deeply. Even followed its evolution to its current model. I've figured I'd have to study everything about it for weeks of full time study, before I'd be ready to start. With a ready to go "off the shelf" EMS, I reckon you could cut the study and preparation time in half or more. But it will still require some deep thinking and careful planning.

Your engines current problems could be the Rising Rate FPR is set too rich, or too much fuel pressure.

Have you pulled the codes off the ECU? Those could help focus your efforts.

I think you're still in the grey area of keeping the ECU or going EMS. If I were in your shoes, I'd resistance and function test every sensor, VSV, device, signal, and output, on the whole car before jumping into an EMS. At least with that behind you, you'd feel more confident about throwing in the EMS.

HoLun · 02-12-2009, 05:55 PM

when you get it to idle, does it idle smooth or does it seem like its misfiring?

I am not telling you to get the EMU, you should never get any piggy back system unless the engine have absolutely no problems.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackstand Queen

I wouldn't want to piggy back either ECU . . . simply because of their age. In PC terms, how reliable would a 1987 IBM PC running at 33 hrz be? Would you want to go out a buy a new motherboard, CD burner, case, RAM, etc for it?

have you seen those things? those 286 IBMs are like tanks, it'll run forever. the operating enviorment is different and you can't compare with car ECUs. the build quality of todays' computer is a joke.

I don't see how the ECU will suddenly fail unless theres short, submerge in water or power surge that will fry the ECU
my 88SC ECU works great, all the signals looks like what they should be.

Krimzen · 02-12-2009, 09:17 PM

I checked my ECU codes today by bridging the e and t connections at the diagnostic box. It made my engine light flash rapidly ( more than Ive ever seen) over and over with no pauses. When I un-do the bridge it turns off.

When I first start it, it runs at about 2500 RPM's and smooth. It is after it starts to warm up when the idol starts reverberating from 2000 to about 2300 rapidly. My gas response is good unless I catch it while its idling down. Power is good and it never kills the car bc I cant get the idol to drop down to 850. Really it is hard for me to tell how the engine is running with such a high RPM level.

I am not sure if I can even change the lean/rich program on my FPR. I have the pressure set at 38 PSI. The pressure fluctuates with the idol. However, I still have
10% more fuel going into the rail. Maybe the injectors are the problem. Too much volume.

I do need to check all of my sensors. I am not sure how to check some of them but I am sure that my factory service manual goes throught the procedures well. All that I have checked is the TPS, I also un-plugged the IAC and it killed the car the first time around (before the idol reverberation kicked in). After the idol reverberation it changed absolutely nothing upon un-plugging the IAC.

How can I check the knock sensor, o2 sensor, and mainly, how do I check the actual computer. Is my flashing light similar to the xbox's 3 red rings.....!

This time when I ran the car it did not smell as rich; it smelt kinda normal

Also, My batt. has been disconected for a while, do I need to let the computer go through any test procedures, or would the trouble codes still be in the system?

I appreciate all of the help.

ebouwman · 02-13-2009, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krimzen

When I first start it, it runs at about 2500 RPM's and smooth. It is after it starts to warm up when the idol starts reverberating from 2000 to about 2300 rapidly. My gas response is good unless I catch it while its idling down. Power is good and it never kills the car bc I cant get the idol to drop down to 850. Really it is hard for me to tell how the engine is running with such a high RPM level.

This time when I ran the car it did not smell as rich; it smelt kinda normal

You set the idle by turning the screw on top of what i believe to be the IAC (at least thats what it seems you're asking) I'm not entirely sure how the idle system works on the MR2 but i know that with other vehicles they sometimes sort of fail.

My mom's mini-van did it, just like your car it would idle normal when it was cold and then once it was warm the idle would be all over the place, omg it was annoying, it would start jerking the van as its an auto and even stall it out. And the problem was the IAC valve.

As i said before, i'm not entirely sure how it work on the mr2 and i dont have a manual on me right now, but if it's the same idea as my moms van you may just have to clean out the IAC valve with brake cleaner or something so that it can move freely and such.

Don't smell those fumes too much now

HoLun · 02-13-2009, 06:45 AM

idle high and cannot get to idle at normal rpm usually means a massive vacuum leak, such as disconnected brake booster line, etc, have you check over all the hoses for vacuum leaks?

and hook up a vacuum gauge and tell us your readings

Krimzen · 02-13-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoLun

idle high and cannot get to idle at normal rpm usually means a massive vacuum leak, such as disconnected brake booster line, etc, have you check over all the hoses for vacuum leaks?

and hook up a vacuum gauge and tell us your readings

This sounds dumb but, where can I hook up my vacc. gauge? It sounds like it would be a good idea to see if there is a vacc. leak. by checking the pressure. Maybe the leak is at the intake or throttle body.

I will check into this stuff tomorrow daytime. I ll let everyone know what answers are.

What type of pressure should I be reading?

Thanks alot guys.

Jackstand Queen · 02-13-2009, 01:26 PM

You can check your sensors, and most every device with a Mark I, Model 0 Multimeter. And on that device you use its resistance measuring of Ohms to check things out.

The check engine blinking pattern has a pattern for "all clear, no codes". In this case, it will blink on 1/4 second, off for 1/4 second continuously. This sounds like what you saw.

If you disconnect the battery all codes stored, will be lost. When you run the engine, the ECU has a hueristic program that adapts the running routine to what it senses. It takes sometimes just seconds to adapt to abrupt changes that we modder's do.

Are the injectors that you installed of the "low impedance" type? These should give out an Ohm reading of 1.5 to 3 Ohms.

Stuffing injectors with 10% more capacity, or raising fuel pressure up 20% is well within the capacity of your ECU to instantly and competenty adapt to. Now Captain Dumbass here (that's me) stuck 440 CC injectors (a 20% capacity increase) and at the same time he increased fuel pressure to 58 PSI (an almost 100% increase) and my ECU couldn't handle those parameter very well. It still ran a little bit.

I have a simultaneous conversation running with a guy in Washington State, content may be helpful:

http://www.mr2.com/forums/mk-1-mr2-a...-new-post.html

P.S. don't try to get the idle at precisely 850 rpm. around a 1000 will do just fine. The IAC has two screws underneath it, loosen them and you can adjust the IAC quite a bit. The idle adjustment screw on the top of the TB is more for fine tuning the idle.

Its beginning to sound like there's a ray of hope for your engine to make it with the stock ECU.

The point I made about how old and infirm our ECU's are can best be illustrated by looking at how many TV's, Stereo's, Computers, cash registers, alarm systems, radios, etc that were made in the late
80's AND are still working and in use today.

Papo J · 02-13-2009, 03:46 PM

None of those mods are radical enough to render the ECU unable to control the operation of the engine. To me it sounds like there is too much overlap dialed into the cam timing and you may need to play with them and adjust them properly, the 0 mark on the stock gears is no longer good enough for higher duration cams, it will still have overlap because of the longer duration and the extra time needed for the valves to fully close. Make sure that the 2 water lines under the TB are connected and also make sure the timing is set correctly, both can affect idle after warmup.

02-10-2009, 06:48 PM	#1 (permalink)
Krimzen No Skills Join Date: May 2005 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	GZE swap, running rich and problems with idol. Whats up guys, This may take a while to explain bc I need to list the parts I have replaced in the car and some of the other things I have done to it. Any help with this project would be greatly appreciated. 1988 Mr2 (n/a) engine swapped with a 4agze (bought the engine, computer, wiring harness and (C52 manual trans). I did not have a body harness. I used my stock wires when I transplanted it in my 88 N/A. I had the engine and head rebuilt by a professional, trans rebuilt by a professional. Now for the stuff the pertains to my problem. I will only list the aftermarket parts I replaced that are relative to the issue at hand. HKS Cams (264 duration, 8 mm lift) Fidanza adj. cam gears Cylinder head was milled HKS mega flow air system Venom injectors (10% more) I know, they suck from what I hear. Stock fuel pump. (tried Venom, went bad shortly) Super coil (accel) Fidanza aluminum flywheel Large Boost Junkey Crank Pulley Cybermax huge tube header Full HKS exhaust, cat eliminated The car runs fine at 5000 RPS's. (Crazy powerful) It idols like there is a giant air bubble in my coolant. I have bleed it many times and it still continues to reverberate the idol. The idol goes from about 2000 to 2500 and then back to 2000, over and over and a fairly quick rythym. This only happens after it warms up a bit. When it's cold it idols at 2000-3000 rpms's. Higher that it should on cold start. It smells like a very rich whiff of gasoline. I refuse to run it for too long bc I do not want to damage the pistons. My timing is set to zero on the factory marks. I have checked it a million times. On a test drive it is not too bad at a higher RPM level. Still, it seems like it should be running better. What if bc of my cams, being at a diff. duration, would make it to where my old factory marks do not apply, (as far as the cam position).???? Would this cause symptoms at idol like my car has. What if my 80's Computer system is not capable of controlling the new sorroundings. Its could be like putting a ten year olds' brain into Michael Jordan and telling him to slam dunk.... Also, my engine light remains off during this whole process. So I am thinking of going with the Greddy EMan system. Its a bit expensive but I am ready to give up. Id appreciate any help that you guys have to offer. Jerry P. (Atlanta, Ga) Last edited by Krimzen; 02-10-2009 at 06:55 PM..

02-11-2009, 02:48 AM	#7 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Is the Greddy a plug and play installation? Would you need to put in different TPS, ignition system and temperature sensors, as in the case of the Megasquirt DYI version? Would you need to rewire every wire that's goes into, or out of the current ECU? That impressive list of mods is beginning to sound like its at the very least "in the gray zone" between needing an aftermarket EMS, and keeping the oem ECU. The EMS would need at least one programmable special control channel to run the SC clutch relay. Another really important number in your setup is the Fuel Pressure at the fuel rail. I had 58 PSI going to my 440Cc injectors . . . doh! That was my major malfunction. I put the OEM 365's back in . . . and that got it running pretty good. The white box on the intake with 3 wires going to is (I think) the Idle Air Control. Its located on the rear side of the TB. It has a lot to do with the warm up cycle and normal idling. I had mine adjusted with the connectors as far forward (to nose of car) as possible, and it still idled high. Bill Clinton often said "I feel your pain". Only when I say it, its sincere. I feel your Pain. Last edited by Jackstand Queen; 02-11-2009 at 02:58 AM..

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02-10-2009, 08:38 PM	#2 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Whoah, that's a nice collection of SC parts you got there pardner! Actually, that Fidanza makes my mouth water. Mm mm m . .. . Fidanza . . . . . I think you may have made the same mistake that I did with my swap and upgrades. I did too many things to the engine all at one throw. As a result, I sent it to a garage for four months because I was beyond ready to throw in the Towel. And you are about to throw in a whole new level of complexity with a programable stand-alone EMS. With due respect, I think you are jumping the gun on the EMS. When you do upgrades one at a time, you get pretty good feedback on that bit of work. When you throw a half dozen at it at once, . . . its even probable that one Mod. exaggerates the problem that another Mod. is causing. O.K. getting off my soapbox, lets look at your bouncing idle problem. 1. Pull codes off ECU, there's a sticky in this website on a low (no tech) tech way to do it. 2. Double check TPS for adjustment and Ohm resistance between terminals to be within Spec. 3. Listen for Vacuum leaks, or spray a small quantity of brake cleaner at suspect areas. Listen for engine idle to change slightly. 4. Find and correct the fuel leak. Its most likely located in or around the fuel rail. 5. Pull ABV out and test function with vacuum guage. They can get totally gummed up over a couple of decades. It might need cleaning inside. I and quite a few others cheer on your efforts and accomplishments with your swap!

02-10-2009, 08:43 PM	#3 (permalink)
ebouwman Curve Hugger Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: BC Posts: 1,600 Thanks: 19 Thanked 51 Times in 51 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The engine light stays on the WHOLE time? or just at idle? I would check what's causing the light first off, because it can be just one simple thing that does it. Here's a page on how to check it. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/jimilawso...U%20Codes.html And with the cams, they are supposed to be on their own specific timing, with every set of custom cams you're supposed to get a little card that tells you what timing to set them to, i don't know how to really set that, but if you have them set to factory specs it would mess with it. New cams with a longer duration/bigger lift will make it idle rougher, but at 2000 it should be fine, but again, i don't know what idle they should be at to run smooth. When the engine isn't warm it's supposed to idle a little higher, and that sounds like why it only idles bad when it's warmed. If you're smelling fuel, check for fuel leaks. Sounds stupid, but i had a leaking fuel pulsation damper and it threw off the mix and made if run rough, and smelled like gas. take a look around. I don't really know about the ecu though. I do know that if you are making too much power it can mess it up, but i don't know at what point. Sounds like a sweet set up though.

02-10-2009, 08:49 PM	#4 (permalink)
ebouwman Curve Hugger Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: BC Posts: 1,600 Thanks: 19 Thanked 51 Times in 51 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Bill Sherwood's Modified 4AGE Page In this article he says that at a 264 you might run into trouble with the stock ECU. It's worth the read.

02-10-2009, 09:23 PM	#5 (permalink)
328FTW Crazy Nasty Honey Badger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,238 Thanks: 24 Thanked 266 Times in 239 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Once you start messing with cams combined with lighter flywheels things happen. Not always but normally the car idles like a pig. My engine used to run some quite wild regrinds for cams and a lightweight flywheel and moving off from an intersection was a task and a half. Also idled like it had rocks in the intake, I went back to a stock head and cams and removed the flywheel and put it on my n/a and it idled perfectly again. I just didn't need that hassle on a daily driver. There is one thing that can get out of whack, On the intake there is a white box looking sensor (there is on all mine) with 3 wires coming out. Unplug it and see if things improve, it is a sensor that helps control idle and they can get messed up, it may help or make it worse but try it anyway.

02-10-2009, 11:04 PM	#6 (permalink)
Krimzen No Skills Join Date: May 2005 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	thanks, thats alot of help already. I did the TPS adjustments a while back; it was actually set right. It was not easy to put it back. I have done the ABV mod, for bybass purposes. I have not really checked the IAC though, maybe I have an issue there. The engine light, actually stays off, but I have not tried retrieving any stored trouble codes if there are any. I def. need to try that white sensor idea that plugs onto the intake, I havent looked yet but I will tomorrow during the day, I am sure it is not too hard to find. Gas leaks! That is def. a possibility. I did put an aftermarket FPR (rising rate) which I forgot to mention... sorry. I went the expensive route with it bc I had bad luck with the cheap (non rising rate) ebay one. I also had to replace the existing reinforced rubber fuel lines with the aftermarket ones at Napa, they feel softer than the factory lines. Is the Greddy that much of a head ache? Are there any good stories or is it just a big pain in the a** to hook it all up and tune it correctly. Maybe it is not worth the money. I appreciate all of the help. I will dig deeper tomorrow.

02-11-2009, 02:32 PM	#8 (permalink)
Krimzen No Skills Join Date: May 2005 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I am gonna try some test today and see if I can come up with some more symptoms or better yet, a solution. I do not know too much about the installation of the Greddy Eman. I hear some good things about it but I also hear that it is a pain to integrate in the system. I think you do have to replace the sensors bc a wiring harness has to be bought separately. I let everyone know whats going on.

02-11-2009, 02:50 PM	#9 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Hang in there. There was a point that I hated my car. I would have loved to watch it being dropped into a pool of lava. Now I love it. It makes the ordinary drudgery of driving fun!

02-11-2009, 08:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
Krimzen No Skills Join Date: May 2005 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	This project has been off and on for about five years now. Of course I drove the N/A before I bought the SC engine. I drove the original 88 na motor all the way around the country. I have posts of the pics from that journey on here I believe. I even made it to Oregon, (Of course I stopped at Humboldt County for some R&R) on my way up. Stayed at Reed for a while and made my way up to Seattle. I had 250,000 miles on the car when I replaced it with the GZE; I still have the orig. motor sitting in my garage. I ll never give up on the Mister two. I own 2 (mark 1's), and a turbo 2nd gen. I also recently bought a shell Corolla GTS (ae86). Money and time, money and time. Maybe one day I will have all of them running! I still need to dig further into my car. I have high hopes... I appreciate all of the help.

02-12-2009, 02:25 AM	#11 (permalink)
HoLun ASE Master tech Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	the emanage blue is a fancy MAF interceptor with lots of other feature. I would not use anything to fool the ecu with altered afm signal, as this changes how the ECU see engine load, which is a quick way to blow up an engine. the emanage ultimate is a piggy back that have its own injector drivers, timing control and alot of features, and dont require to alter AFM signal to change injector duty cycle. both are piggy back units. I have the ultimate and it works fine, been running for about 1 year, as long as its in open loop mode. otherwise the stock ecu will fight to get the engine to burn at 14.7:1 AFR, that meas massive fuel trim changes in both the EMU and Factory ECU if you use AFR Target in closed loop operation. Greddy have developed the F-Manage to remedy the problem but I have not seen it in the american market. I have a adjustable o2 signal generator that I am going to feed it the the stock ecu to see 14.7 all the time and will try to see if it will work good with the ultimate in full EGO feed back control. I also have build a MSII to use in parallel mode if the ultimate don't perform like I wanted to. but all the comes after I finish swapping out the blown engine. which I will be dropping the engine out and swapping external parts tomorrow.

02-12-2009, 02:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
Krimzen No Skills Join Date: May 2005 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I just keep racking up time trying to find a ploblem that does not exist, I think. I do not seem to be leaking fuel. The rich smell is def. coming out of the exhaust. I am not to sure about the IAC valve. Lets just say everything that I have done is ok and good to go. Then that would def. make it worth the 7 or 8 hundred dollars for the Greddy Eman, given that my old ECU will not operate the new muscles I gave it. Tell me, will it take a pro to wire this thing in my car. I know electricity but only as far as a stereo installer. Either way, b4 I make the jump to Greddy I still want to do some more test to make sure I actually need it. Thanks alot.

02-12-2009, 05:17 PM	#13 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I am using a 21 year old SC ECU. I have a spare SC ECU as a backup. If I am ever forced to use the spare, at that point, I'll start putting together an EMS. And it must truly be a Standalone. I wouldn't want to piggy back either ECU . . . simply because of their age. In PC terms, how reliable would a 1987 IBM PC running at 33 hrz be? Would you want to go out a buy a new motherboard, CD burner, case, RAM, etc for it? I've looked into the Megasquirt pretty deeply. Even followed its evolution to its current model. I've figured I'd have to study everything about it for weeks of full time study, before I'd be ready to start. With a ready to go "off the shelf" EMS, I reckon you could cut the study and preparation time in half or more. But it will still require some deep thinking and careful planning. Your engines current problems could be the Rising Rate FPR is set too rich, or too much fuel pressure. Have you pulled the codes off the ECU? Those could help focus your efforts. I think you're still in the grey area of keeping the ECU or going EMS. If I were in your shoes, I'd resistance and function test every sensor, VSV, device, signal, and output, on the whole car before jumping into an EMS. At least with that behind you, you'd feel more confident about throwing in the EMS.

02-12-2009, 09:17 PM	#15 (permalink)
Krimzen No Skills Join Date: May 2005 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 65 Thanks: 8 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I checked my ECU codes today by bridging the e and t connections at the diagnostic box. It made my engine light flash rapidly ( more than Ive ever seen) over and over with no pauses. When I un-do the bridge it turns off. When I first start it, it runs at about 2500 RPM's and smooth. It is after it starts to warm up when the idol starts reverberating from 2000 to about 2300 rapidly. My gas response is good unless I catch it while its idling down. Power is good and it never kills the car bc I cant get the idol to drop down to 850. Really it is hard for me to tell how the engine is running with such a high RPM level. I am not sure if I can even change the lean/rich program on my FPR. I have the pressure set at 38 PSI. The pressure fluctuates with the idol. However, I still have 10% more fuel going into the rail. Maybe the injectors are the problem. Too much volume. I do need to check all of my sensors. I am not sure how to check some of them but I am sure that my factory service manual goes throught the procedures well. All that I have checked is the TPS, I also un-plugged the IAC and it killed the car the first time around (before the idol reverberation kicked in). After the idol reverberation it changed absolutely nothing upon un-plugging the IAC. How can I check the knock sensor, o2 sensor, and mainly, how do I check the actual computer. Is my flashing light similar to the xbox's 3 red rings.....! This time when I ran the car it did not smell as rich; it smelt kinda normal Also, My batt. has been disconected for a while, do I need to let the computer go through any test procedures, or would the trouble codes still be in the system? I appreciate all of the help.

02-13-2009, 06:45 AM	#17 (permalink)
HoLun ASE Master tech Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 79 Thanks: 0 Thanked 5 Times in 5 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	idle high and cannot get to idle at normal rpm usually means a massive vacuum leak, such as disconnected brake booster line, etc, have you check over all the hoses for vacuum leaks? and hook up a vacuum gauge and tell us your readings

02-13-2009, 01:26 PM	#19 (permalink)
Jackstand Queen Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 840 Thanks: 75 Thanked 64 Times in 60 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	You can check your sensors, and most every device with a Mark I, Model 0 Multimeter. And on that device you use its resistance measuring of Ohms to check things out. The check engine blinking pattern has a pattern for "all clear, no codes". In this case, it will blink on 1/4 second, off for 1/4 second continuously. This sounds like what you saw. If you disconnect the battery all codes stored, will be lost. When you run the engine, the ECU has a hueristic program that adapts the running routine to what it senses. It takes sometimes just seconds to adapt to abrupt changes that we modder's do. Are the injectors that you installed of the "low impedance" type? These should give out an Ohm reading of 1.5 to 3 Ohms. Stuffing injectors with 10% more capacity, or raising fuel pressure up 20% is well within the capacity of your ECU to instantly and competenty adapt to. Now Captain Dumbass here (that's me) stuck 440 CC injectors (a 20% capacity increase) and at the same time he increased fuel pressure to 58 PSI (an almost 100% increase) and my ECU couldn't handle those parameter very well. It still ran a little bit. I have a simultaneous conversation running with a guy in Washington State, content may be helpful: http://www.mr2.com/forums/mk-1-mr2-a...-new-post.html P.S. don't try to get the idle at precisely 850 rpm. around a 1000 will do just fine. The IAC has two screws underneath it, loosen them and you can adjust the IAC quite a bit. The idle adjustment screw on the top of the TB is more for fine tuning the idle. Its beginning to sound like there's a ray of hope for your engine to make it with the stock ECU. The point I made about how old and infirm our ECU's are can best be illustrated by looking at how many TV's, Stereo's, Computers, cash registers, alarm systems, radios, etc that were made in the late 80's AND are still working and in use today.

02-13-2009, 03:46 PM	#20 (permalink)
Papo J 6SPD GTE Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 591 Thanks: 2 Thanked 50 Times in 49 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	None of those mods are radical enough to render the ECU unable to control the operation of the engine. To me it sounds like there is too much overlap dialed into the cam timing and you may need to play with them and adjust them properly, the 0 mark on the stock gears is no longer good enough for higher duration cams, it will still have overlap because of the longer duration and the extra time needed for the valves to fully close. Make sure that the 2 water lines under the TB are connected and also make sure the timing is set correctly, both can affect idle after warmup.