4A-GE MK1 Engine Well it runs now. Sorta.

85silverna · 03-01-2009, 07:25 PM

Dizzy went in and it started and ran w/o any help, but it wont rev above 3500 and removing the egr helped. We're getting there.

deucegirl03 · 03-01-2009, 07:43 PM

feel ya i am working out timing issues with my 5S. just had to overhaul the ign system including replacing the dizzy. fun fun fun good luck to you

Papo J · 03-04-2009, 12:53 PM

Make sure your firing order is correct and check the timing, it should be set at 10*BTDC with the engine warm, the diagnostic connector jumpered and all accessories off.

85silverna · 03-04-2009, 05:21 PM

I know that but timing is pretty close right now and the egr is whats making it run like butt

Papo J · 03-04-2009, 06:09 PM

If you're sure the egr is messed up try sealing the intake manifold side of the egr with a solid aluminum or copper gasket.

85silverna · 03-06-2009, 07:19 AM

Okay car ran great. sealed egr virtually eliminating it. pulled catalytic off found it to be clogged and punched out the catylist, hollowing it out. Bolted it back on and car ran great. like new except timing was a bit off. Drove for 5 to 10 mins and it overheated, which was extremely unusual for this car. noticed oil pressure was lower than normal too, around 1/8 to 1/4 of the gauge. on thruway the car developed a knocking sound but only at about 3,000 rpm. noticed the heat and exited the freeway, and when slowing to the light with the car in neutral the engine stalled. got it going and pulled over, cooled fluid, topped off, and bled it. 5 mins later, still trying to stall at idle, knock at all rpms and it overheats again. towed to my garage and wont start. Anyone have an idea?, I thought at first the knock was an exhaust bolt but im thinking a valve might have dropped...

muffinman · 03-06-2009, 10:58 AM

start with a compression test

supraguy@aol · 03-06-2009, 10:47 PM

Ouch.
That sounds totally like rod knock, man.
Mine's got that too at the moment.
If the knocking sound is louder as it revs down compared to when it revs up, that's a sure sign. The indication of possible oil starvation supports this.

ebouwman · 03-06-2009, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85silverna

Okay car ran great. sealed egr virtually eliminating it. pulled catalytic off found it to be clogged and punched out the catylist, hollowing it out. Bolted it back on and car ran great. like new except timing was a bit off. Drove for 5 to 10 mins and it overheated, which was extremely unusual for this car. noticed oil pressure was lower than normal too, around 1/8 to 1/4 of the gauge. on thruway the car developed a knocking sound but only at about 3,000 rpm. noticed the heat and exited the freeway, and when slowing to the light with the car in neutral the engine stalled. got it going and pulled over, cooled fluid, topped off, and bled it. 5 mins later, still trying to stall at idle, knock at all rpms and it overheats again. towed to my garage and wont start. Anyone have an idea?, I thought at first the knock was an exhaust bolt but im thinking a valve might have dropped...

sounds like you may be running very lean. From what i understand running lean causes you to run a bit hotter, and from what i DO KNOW can cause detonation which would cause a knock.

You probably have a buggered sensor along the line somewhere.

The knocking on rev down like you said supraguy would make sense as to pointing towards rod knock, being that if it was a bad mix it shouldn't cause it on rev down, i've heard that when you coast down using the engine to slow it doesn't use any gas. Also if you were to shut off the ignition and leave it in gear, should still knock if it's rod knock.

Also if you're having issues with the egr, you can clean it so that it works right, i was having a small problem with mine, especially at really cold temperatures. I used brake cleaner, and it fixed my bad idle.

And what do you mean by, you think a valve might have dropped? You mean like once of the valves in the head falling into the cylinder?

85silverna · 03-08-2009, 01:37 AM

Pretty sure its valve knock. Gas in intake anybody? Overheating was caused by a blocked coolant inlet.

mr2good · 03-08-2009, 10:27 AM

My 3sgte did almost exactly what you are saying. It would only knock at a certin rpm. Then tried to make it home then the knocking got louder an over heated an died as I aaas turning on my street an wouldn't crank back up. What it was is a blown head gasket. Water dumping on the plugs just a little at first cause it to detonate which sound just like a damn knock. Then the further I drove it the worse the gasket got then it just sounded like my motor was about to come apart. The weird thing was when I pulled my dip stick I didn't see anything in the oil. But when I pulled my plugs there was water all over them. I pulled the oil pan to check everyhing out an found some water in it then. So pull your plugs an look at them along with your dip stick

ebouwman · 03-08-2009, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85silverna

Pretty sure its valve knock. Gas in intake anybody? Overheating was caused by a blocked coolant inlet.

VALVE knock? If your valves were knocking on the piston then you'd have noticed a few other things wrong before hand, i'm pretty sure the car wouldn't run period

So i assume you mean rod knock lol, but why do you think that that's what it is? Did you see if it's knocking on deceleration like supraGuy suggested?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr2good

What it was is a blown head gasket. Water dumping on the plugs just a little at first cause it to detonate which sound just like a damn knock.

Detonation is what causes a knock, wether detonation is because of bad timing, bad octane level in gas, or in your case spark timing being thrown off by the water, it sounds just like a knock, because it is a knock.

Unless you meant it sounds just like rod knock cause that is a different story.

85silverna · 03-10-2009, 02:57 AM

spun conrod bearring maybe? its a squealing, grinding knock too...

LokiRx7 · 03-11-2009, 12:44 AM

Detonation AKA Knock or ping, sounds like pouring marbles into a coffee can. If you have a loud metal knocking or banging sound, its a spun rod bearing, which causes the connecting rods to wobble back and forth on the rod journal. If left unchecked it can ruin the rod end, and worse ruin the crank journal. It can also lead to a bent/broken rod if the oil starvation is bad enough.

90% of rod knocks Ive dealt with in 4A-GE's are spun rod bearings. Youll need to drop your oil pan and find the rod (Easy, grab them and try to wiggle them, a good rod and bearing combo wont move at all.) Youll need to remove the rod from the crank and remove the rod bearing. Run your fingernail over the rod journal, if it feels rough, the crank needs to come out and be machined. If its bad enough (I.E. if you drove it any distance) the crank will probably need replaced (The machine shop will be able to tell you that). And you will obviously need to replace the rod bearings at minimum.

After re-reading your post, and seeing that your car wont run anymore, I would expect a spun rod bearing. Spun bearings also cause low oil pressure.

85silverna · 03-12-2009, 03:20 AM

it ran again in my garage, but the noise was still there, like a severe lifter knock , combined with metallic grinding. The oil came out and no shrapnel was found there. decided to pull the head. That was Tuesday.The exhaust is off from the flex back, the alternator, serp belt, dizzy, valve covers, header heat shield, overflow bottle, and fuel rail are all off, and the wiring is mostly disconnected. Next is the 4 bollts left on the intake, the exhaust manifold, cam gears, cams, water pump and inlet, and finally the head comes off. Not bad for 3.5 hours alone with crappy tools.

P.S. oil pan comes off tomorrow and i will be checking the conrods. Ooo and just bought a nice engine stand for only $35. cant beat craigslist!

85silverna · 03-16-2009, 12:26 AM

Loki was right spun rod bearing. I pulled the oil pan and #2 and #4 were pretty much shot, with #3 pulling a close third. The only one that was still solid was #1... anyway the motor is coming out, and im going to need a new or really good used crank, I dont feel like messing with a machine shop for my crank. sigh... at least the motor is almost out, only need to pull coolant inlet, water pump, timing belt, pulleys and cams, an the head will come off. after that ill probably pull the short block out and put it on my stand. Might as well do pistons, rings, clutch, resurface flywheel, new lines, gaskets, and conrods while I'm there... Its getting expensive

LokiRx7 · 03-16-2009, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 85silverna

Loki was right spun rod bearing. I pulled the oil pan and #2 and #4 were pretty much shot, with #3 pulling a close third. The only one that was still solid was #1... anyway the motor is coming out, and im going to need a new or really good used crank, I dont feel like messing with a machine shop for my crank. sigh... at least the motor is almost out, only need to pull coolant inlet, water pump, timing belt, pulleys and cams, an the head will come off. after that ill probably pull the short block out and put it on my stand. Might as well do pistons, rings, clutch, resurface flywheel, new lines, gaskets, and conrods while I'm there... Its getting expensive

Good to hear you found the problem, I know how much that sucks. I have been in your position before myself. Cars are expensive, it comes hand in hand with driving them.

Any reason you arent pulling the engine and trans in one piece? For some reason I find it easier to drop them together whenever I take the engine out. That way you can reassemble the engine and tranny on the ground, instead of hanging in your engine bay. I also dont pull the head either, or any accessories, they are a million times easier to take off after the engine is out of the car. Of course having an engine hoist makes it easier for me, and I dont know if you have one.

ebouwman · 03-16-2009, 02:40 PM

I think the haynes manual tells you to pull the head off before pulling the engine to give you more clearance. But everybody seems to pull the engine as one piece like loki.

And he's right, it'd be WAY easier to work on it once it comes out. Some of the stuff that the haynes manual tells you is just not entirely accurate.

85silverna · 03-17-2009, 05:27 AM

well all thats left is the head, cams gears, a/c, and water pump. it was all apart in august so the bolts are easy, and I dont have a lift, I want to try to pull it without a lift if I can. I might make a pulley or I'll just borrow a lift.

03-01-2009, 07:25 PM	#1 (permalink)
85silverna OT's PIMP(le) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Clarence NY Posts: 682 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	Well it runs now. Sorta. Dizzy went in and it started and ran w/o any help, but it wont rev above 3500 and removing the egr helped. We're getting there.

03-12-2009, 03:20 AM	#15 (permalink)
85silverna OT's PIMP(le) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Clarence NY Posts: 682 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	it ran again in my garage, but the noise was still there, like a severe lifter knock , combined with metallic grinding. The oil came out and no shrapnel was found there. decided to pull the head. That was Tuesday.The exhaust is off from the flex back, the alternator, serp belt, dizzy, valve covers, header heat shield, overflow bottle, and fuel rail are all off, and the wiring is mostly disconnected. Next is the 4 bollts left on the intake, the exhaust manifold, cam gears, cams, water pump and inlet, and finally the head comes off. Not bad for 3.5 hours alone with crappy tools. P.S. oil pan comes off tomorrow and i will be checking the conrods. Ooo and just bought a nice engine stand for only $35. cant beat craigslist! Last edited by 85silverna; 03-12-2009 at 03:23 AM.. Reason: add to post

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03-01-2009, 07:43 PM	#2 (permalink)
deucegirl03 Gearhead son! Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Canyon Country, CA Posts: 723 Thanks: 35 Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	feel ya i am working out timing issues with my 5S. just had to overhaul the ign system including replacing the dizzy. fun fun fun good luck to you

03-04-2009, 12:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
Papo J 6SPD GTE Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 591 Thanks: 2 Thanked 50 Times in 49 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Make sure your firing order is correct and check the timing, it should be set at 10*BTDC with the engine warm, the diagnostic connector jumpered and all accessories off.

03-04-2009, 05:21 PM	#4 (permalink)
85silverna OT's PIMP(le) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Clarence NY Posts: 682 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	I know that but timing is pretty close right now and the egr is whats making it run like butt

03-04-2009, 06:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
Papo J 6SPD GTE Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 591 Thanks: 2 Thanked 50 Times in 49 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	If you're sure the egr is messed up try sealing the intake manifold side of the egr with a solid aluminum or copper gasket.

03-06-2009, 07:19 AM	#6 (permalink)
85silverna OT's PIMP(le) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Clarence NY Posts: 682 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	Okay car ran great. sealed egr virtually eliminating it. pulled catalytic off found it to be clogged and punched out the catylist, hollowing it out. Bolted it back on and car ran great. like new except timing was a bit off. Drove for 5 to 10 mins and it overheated, which was extremely unusual for this car. noticed oil pressure was lower than normal too, around 1/8 to 1/4 of the gauge. on thruway the car developed a knocking sound but only at about 3,000 rpm. noticed the heat and exited the freeway, and when slowing to the light with the car in neutral the engine stalled. got it going and pulled over, cooled fluid, topped off, and bled it. 5 mins later, still trying to stall at idle, knock at all rpms and it overheats again. towed to my garage and wont start. Anyone have an idea?, I thought at first the knock was an exhaust bolt but im thinking a valve might have dropped...

03-06-2009, 10:58 AM	#7 (permalink)
muffinman U-P-G-R-A-Y-E-D-D Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Sunny South Florida Posts: 5,881 Thanks: 53 Thanked 283 Times in 272 Posts Blog Entries: 1 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	start with a compression test

03-06-2009, 10:47 PM	#8 (permalink)
supraguy@aol Cage Fighter Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Lawrenceville, GA Posts: 450 Thanks: 1 Thanked 19 Times in 19 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Ouch. That sounds totally like rod knock, man. Mine's got that too at the moment. If the knocking sound is louder as it revs down compared to when it revs up, that's a sure sign. The indication of possible oil starvation supports this.

03-08-2009, 01:37 AM	#10 (permalink)
85silverna OT's PIMP(le) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Clarence NY Posts: 682 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	Pretty sure its valve knock. Gas in intake anybody? Overheating was caused by a blocked coolant inlet.

03-08-2009, 10:27 AM	#11 (permalink)
mr2good Some Skills Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 85 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	My 3sgte did almost exactly what you are saying. It would only knock at a certin rpm. Then tried to make it home then the knocking got louder an over heated an died as I aaas turning on my street an wouldn't crank back up. What it was is a blown head gasket. Water dumping on the plugs just a little at first cause it to detonate which sound just like a damn knock. Then the further I drove it the worse the gasket got then it just sounded like my motor was about to come apart. The weird thing was when I pulled my dip stick I didn't see anything in the oil. But when I pulled my plugs there was water all over them. I pulled the oil pan to check everyhing out an found some water in it then. So pull your plugs an look at them along with your dip stick

03-10-2009, 02:57 AM	#13 (permalink)
85silverna OT's PIMP(le) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Clarence NY Posts: 682 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	spun conrod bearring maybe? its a squealing, grinding knock too...

03-11-2009, 12:44 AM	#14 (permalink)
LokiRx7 MR2 + Flat Black = FAIL Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: N.C. Ohio Posts: 320 Thanks: 0 Thanked 15 Times in 14 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Detonation AKA Knock or ping, sounds like pouring marbles into a coffee can. If you have a loud metal knocking or banging sound, its a spun rod bearing, which causes the connecting rods to wobble back and forth on the rod journal. If left unchecked it can ruin the rod end, and worse ruin the crank journal. It can also lead to a bent/broken rod if the oil starvation is bad enough. 90% of rod knocks Ive dealt with in 4A-GE's are spun rod bearings. Youll need to drop your oil pan and find the rod (Easy, grab them and try to wiggle them, a good rod and bearing combo wont move at all.) Youll need to remove the rod from the crank and remove the rod bearing. Run your fingernail over the rod journal, if it feels rough, the crank needs to come out and be machined. If its bad enough (I.E. if you drove it any distance) the crank will probably need replaced (The machine shop will be able to tell you that). And you will obviously need to replace the rod bearings at minimum. After re-reading your post, and seeing that your car wont run anymore, I would expect a spun rod bearing. Spun bearings also cause low oil pressure.

03-16-2009, 12:26 AM	#16 (permalink)
85silverna OT's PIMP(le) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Clarence NY Posts: 682 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	Loki was right spun rod bearing. I pulled the oil pan and #2 and #4 were pretty much shot, with #3 pulling a close third. The only one that was still solid was #1... anyway the motor is coming out, and im going to need a new or really good used crank, I dont feel like messing with a machine shop for my crank. sigh... at least the motor is almost out, only need to pull coolant inlet, water pump, timing belt, pulleys and cams, an the head will come off. after that ill probably pull the short block out and put it on my stand. Might as well do pistons, rings, clutch, resurface flywheel, new lines, gaskets, and conrods while I'm there... Its getting expensive

03-16-2009, 02:40 PM	#18 (permalink)
ebouwman Curve Hugger Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: BC Posts: 1,600 Thanks: 19 Thanked 51 Times in 51 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I think the haynes manual tells you to pull the head off before pulling the engine to give you more clearance. But everybody seems to pull the engine as one piece like loki. And he's right, it'd be WAY easier to work on it once it comes out. Some of the stuff that the haynes manual tells you is just not entirely accurate.

03-17-2009, 05:27 AM	#19 (permalink)
85silverna OT's PIMP(le) Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Clarence NY Posts: 682 Thanks: 2 Thanked 33 Times in 32 Posts iTrader Rating: (6/100% )	well all thats left is the head, cams gears, a/c, and water pump. it was all apart in august so the bolts are easy, and I dont have a lift, I want to try to pull it without a lift if I can. I might make a pulley or I'll just borrow a lift.