20v or 3sgte

rsfire · 04-01-2009, 12:26 PM

I've been researching swaps a bit for when my 4age finally dies. My primary concern is weight. Does anyone know the weight differences between the 20v(probably blacktop) and the 3sgte? I'm going to be autocrossing and be doing other sorts of racing, so if the 3sgte is a lot heavier i dont want it to affect handling negatively. Anyone who's done the swap, how's it affect handling?

Oh, and my car is an 89 aw11

And from reading if i'm correct the 20v is pretty simple to put in, everything already fits right? And the 3sgte will need new axles tranny and motormounts right? any thing else i should know about? thanks

mr3 · 04-01-2009, 12:49 PM

The 20v requires a little more than just plugging it in and turning it on. The wiring has to be redone and cooling lines have to be redone and then there are a few more things that have to be done.

The 20v would definatly be easier than the 3sgte engine because you will have get all different things such as axels, mounts, etc. The 20v can use your trans.

I think it would be easier to go the 20v route personally.

mr220v · 04-01-2009, 01:11 PM

I'll give you a middle of the road option. The beams 3sge. Still 200hp, but NA, and a little easier to make work in a mk1.

ebouwman · 04-01-2009, 04:18 PM

^ good idea. A bit more money though...

Thing is that the extra power will help out, and to help the weight balance a bit you're probably going to strip the car down anyway, and moving the battery to the frunk would help weight distribution. Also you can run an lsd tranny on the 3sgte (and i'm assuming the beams as well) and the lsd would help a fair bit to plant that rear end.

I don't think they ever made an lsd tranny for the 4age/gze did they? I know you can get an aftermarket diff to stick in there but i think thats pretty pricey.

mr220v · 04-01-2009, 04:28 PM

You can get a beams 3sge swap set for about the same price as a gen2 3sgte swap set.....and NA mk2 mr2 axles fit aw11 hubs. Redtop manual transmissions come with LSD.

ebouwman · 04-01-2009, 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr220v

You can get a beams 3sge swap set for about the same price as a gen2 3sgte swap set.....and NA mk2 mr2 axles fit aw11 hubs. Redtop manual transmissions come with LSD.

Not here you can't

The beams engines here are about the same price as a gen3 3sgte from the prices i've seen from jdm importers.

I don't know about prices buying privately though.

rsfire · 04-01-2009, 04:57 PM

ya, i knew about the wiring and stuff. Does anyone know which is heavier. Would i have problems with handling like more understeer and snap oversteer with the 3sgte? thanks for the input so far.

ebouwman · 04-01-2009, 05:29 PM

well it's definately not going to give you more understeer, thats for sure

It might oversteer on you more because you got so much more power, but as for how much the weight difference is/how it'll affect driving i can't say.

But i have heard of people running them in autox's and stuff. Also remember that if you are building it up for autox then you can strip some weight off the car to help a little, and you probably don't even have a rear sway bar do you?

rsfire · 04-02-2009, 12:45 AM

hmm ok, well i guess i'll just think about it some more and decide. thanks for the help guys

M-r2d2 · 04-11-2009, 11:57 PM

I would think that the 20v would be better in AutoX (never got into it but know the basics)
cus you can stay higher in the RPM rang when going around thing and have your power right there when leaving the turn?? but the power of the 3sgte would most likely make up for that.

toy-driver · 04-14-2009, 12:34 AM

3sgte with E153 trans a will be 100-200 pounds heavier than a 20v 4age with a c52 or c56 trans.

toyotaspeed90 · 04-16-2009, 03:18 PM

An e series in the back of an aw11 kinda sucks....

i rebuilt my 87 hardtop gze (obviously not stock) with a C series trans and ditched the e51..... car perked up a LOT and also is easier to get around the corners....

comparing the 20V to the 3sgte isn't really fair, though.... they make different kinds of power..... comparing an ae101 gze to a 3sgte would be a more comparable measure....

mr220v · 04-16-2009, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

comparing an ae101 gze to a 3sgte would be a more comparable measure....

Still not really fair though. At least not for peak hp, or to the gze's credit, off throttle response.

I've got a pretty cool idea for cheap/stockish electronics for a 4agte if anybody wants to try something new.

I||ICIT · 04-21-2009, 03:47 AM

the one thing ive noticed having both an n/a mk1 and n/a mk2 is that the 3s-ge has much more torque low down(obviously) and it definitely has more pull right through the range compared to the 4a-ge which is a lot more "peaky" power wise.

just reading through this, i didnt realise that a beams n/a could go into the aw chassis!
im putting one into my SW and i am so stoked to think that i could have an AW and and SW with beams motors

:O
that would be a great base for comparing chassis and suspension systems in each car

04-01-2009, 12:26 PM	#1 (permalink)
rsfire No Skills Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	20v or 3sgte I've been researching swaps a bit for when my 4age finally dies. My primary concern is weight. Does anyone know the weight differences between the 20v(probably blacktop) and the 3sgte? I'm going to be autocrossing and be doing other sorts of racing, so if the 3sgte is a lot heavier i dont want it to affect handling negatively. Anyone who's done the swap, how's it affect handling? Oh, and my car is an 89 aw11 And from reading if i'm correct the 20v is pretty simple to put in, everything already fits right? And the 3sgte will need new axles tranny and motormounts right? any thing else i should know about? thanks

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Posted By	For	Type	Date
3Sgte Toyota Mr2 Engine Swap Aw11 on Kosmix	This thread	Refback	04-25-2009 07:07 AM

04-01-2009, 12:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
mr3 unskilled Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Plymouth Mtg, Pa Posts: 2,406 Thanks: 24 Thanked 98 Times in 93 Posts iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	The 20v requires a little more than just plugging it in and turning it on. The wiring has to be redone and cooling lines have to be redone and then there are a few more things that have to be done. The 20v would definatly be easier than the 3sgte engine because you will have get all different things such as axels, mounts, etc. The 20v can use your trans. I think it would be easier to go the 20v route personally.

04-01-2009, 01:11 PM	#3 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,527 Thanks: 13 Thanked 176 Times in 147 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	I'll give you a middle of the road option. The beams 3sge. Still 200hp, but NA, and a little easier to make work in a mk1.

04-01-2009, 04:18 PM	#4 (permalink)
ebouwman Curve Hugger Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: BC Posts: 1,600 Thanks: 19 Thanked 51 Times in 51 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	^ good idea. A bit more money though... Thing is that the extra power will help out, and to help the weight balance a bit you're probably going to strip the car down anyway, and moving the battery to the frunk would help weight distribution. Also you can run an lsd tranny on the 3sgte (and i'm assuming the beams as well) and the lsd would help a fair bit to plant that rear end. I don't think they ever made an lsd tranny for the 4age/gze did they? I know you can get an aftermarket diff to stick in there but i think thats pretty pricey.

04-01-2009, 04:28 PM	#5 (permalink)
mr220v Beams Owners Group Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 2,527 Thanks: 13 Thanked 176 Times in 147 Posts iTrader Rating: (11/100% )	You can get a beams 3sge swap set for about the same price as a gen2 3sgte swap set.....and NA mk2 mr2 axles fit aw11 hubs. Redtop manual transmissions come with LSD.

04-01-2009, 04:57 PM	#7 (permalink)
rsfire No Skills Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	ya, i knew about the wiring and stuff. Does anyone know which is heavier. Would i have problems with handling like more understeer and snap oversteer with the 3sgte? thanks for the input so far.

04-01-2009, 05:29 PM	#8 (permalink)
ebouwman Curve Hugger Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: BC Posts: 1,600 Thanks: 19 Thanked 51 Times in 51 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	well it's definately not going to give you more understeer, thats for sure It might oversteer on you more because you got so much more power, but as for how much the weight difference is/how it'll affect driving i can't say. But i have heard of people running them in autox's and stuff. Also remember that if you are building it up for autox then you can strip some weight off the car to help a little, and you probably don't even have a rear sway bar do you?

04-02-2009, 12:45 AM	#9 (permalink)
rsfire No Skills Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 41 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	hmm ok, well i guess i'll just think about it some more and decide. thanks for the help guys

04-11-2009, 11:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
M-r2d2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Decatur,TX Posts: 421 Thanks: 7 Thanked 13 Times in 13 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I would think that the 20v would be better in AutoX (never got into it but know the basics) cus you can stay higher in the RPM rang when going around thing and have your power right there when leaving the turn?? but the power of the 3sgte would most likely make up for that.

04-14-2009, 12:34 AM	#11 (permalink)
toy-driver Getting there Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 282 Thanks: 3 Thanked 11 Times in 11 Posts iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	3sgte with E153 trans a will be 100-200 pounds heavier than a 20v 4age with a c52 or c56 trans.

04-16-2009, 03:18 PM	#12 (permalink)
toyotaspeed90 No Skills Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,401 Thanks: 0 Thanked 148 Times in 143 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	An e series in the back of an aw11 kinda sucks.... i rebuilt my 87 hardtop gze (obviously not stock) with a C series trans and ditched the e51..... car perked up a LOT and also is easier to get around the corners.... comparing the 20V to the 3sgte isn't really fair, though.... they make different kinds of power..... comparing an ae101 gze to a 3sgte would be a more comparable measure....

04-21-2009, 03:47 AM	#14 (permalink)
I\|\|ICIT Some Skills Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 50 Thanks: 22 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	the one thing ive noticed having both an n/a mk1 and n/a mk2 is that the 3s-ge has much more torque low down(obviously) and it definitely has more pull right through the range compared to the 4a-ge which is a lot more "peaky" power wise. just reading through this, i didnt realise that a beams n/a could go into the aw chassis! im putting one into my SW and i am so stoked to think that i could have an AW and and SW with beams motors :O that would be a great base for comparing chassis and suspension systems in each car