4AGE: Do they make a stroker kit for 4age?

[YTaw11]

do they make a stroker kit for any of the 4age's (blacktop, silvertop, gze)? im debating which of those three too drop in and if any of one those have a supercharger/stroker kit after market support then thats the one im getting
cheers

[328FTW]

7afe look it up, there isn't huge support for it though it is still basically a stroked 4age. the head bolts on and instant stroker, although its not incredibly strong, its alright though.

[te51levin]

There is no "kit", but you can build one out of OEM Toyota parts. The resulting hybrid is called a 7AGE. Done properly, it is very reliable and makes bags of real world power.

Do spend some time searching and researching the terms 7AG and 7AGE. There is a lot to learn. Ignore the people who tell you that it won't work, that it is fragile, or that it is too difficult to bother with.

Here's mine. I've been driving it daily for five years, and it runs like a striped cat. The page has not been updated in years, but there is a LOT of information here if you're willing to take the time to read it all.

[little_twin]

Originally Posted by te51levin

There is no "kit", but you can build one out of OEM Toyota parts. The resulting hybrid is called a 7AGE. Done properly, it is very reliable and makes bags of real world power.

Do spend some time searching and researching the terms 7AG and 7AGE. There is a lot to learn. Ignore the people who tell you that it won't work, that it is fragile, or that it is too difficult to bother with.

Here's mine. I've been driving it daily for five years, and it runs like a striped cat. The page has not been updated in years, but there is a LOT of information here if you're willing to take the time to read it all.

So your 7age was built with all OEM toyota parts? Was the parts list on your website the complete list or are there other parts needed? Any mods needed for bolting it in or do the AFE engine mount line up with the mounts on the MR2?

[te51levin]

That's the essentials. You'll need to read everything to understand everything, and the parts you need will (naturally) depend on what kind of shape your engine is in and how you choose to build it. In other words, it's just not practical to give you a list of everything that anyone would possibly need.

Everything in mine was OEM except for the timing belt and the adjustable cam pulleys. I also used aftermarket cams, but that is not an integral part of the 7AGE conversion. The motor mounts all line up, but minor welding is required on things like the upper alternator bracket, water bypass pipe brackets, etc. You will also need to get creative with exhaust; as I wrote on the build page, the stock manifold won't work due to interference with the oil pan.

[smccullie]

i ran a 7age in my corolla for a while was good fun to build but in the end i put a conrod through the block hahah but saying that it was quick and was fun to drive

[scottohno]

ever get it street dynoed? id love to see that engine with a good twincharge setup on it. i bet you could hit 600hp if you tried hard enough...

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by te51levin

Everything in mine was OEM except for the timing belt and the adjustable cam pulleys. I also used aftermarket cams, but that is not an integral part of the 7AGE conversion. The motor mounts all line up, but minor welding is required on things like the upper alternator bracket, water bypass pipe brackets, etc. You will also need to get creative with exhaust; as I wrote on the build page, the stock manifold won't work due to interference with the oil pan.

Interesting....

the only welding I did on mine was had a shop cut a header in half and extend the pipes....

the upper alt bracket I just cut part of the end of it off and used the outer bolt on the water neck.... if that bolt was kept loose I could still use it as a slider bracket.

For some reason I feel like the water pipes bolted to the block just fine... I may have to go look (though I'm not sure what's left on it, on the stand)

and there was a kit available... it was called the 5ag stroker kit, by HKS... you're lucky if you see pieces of it on ebay anymore.

[te51levin]

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

the only welding I did on mine was had a shop cut a header in half and extend the pipes....

There are a couple of ways to do it, but I like anything I build to look as clean and tidy as possible, and be as strong and durable as possible so as to avoid any trouble (loose fasteners, fluid leaks, etc) down the road. So I usually spend more time than is warranted sweating the details of minor issues like these.

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by te51levin

There are a couple of ways to do it, but I like anything I build to look as clean and tidy as possible, and be as strong and durable as possible so as to avoid any trouble (loose fasteners, fluid leaks, etc) down the road. So I usually spend more time than is warranted sweating the details of minor issues like these.

You can see what I did here:



It still uses a stock bracket, just modified a tad....

and to play devils advocate... I understand the want/need to make this piece hold up.... however, in stock format there's already only an 8mm bolt (12mm head) that retains the alternator in it's location (on the slider).... so there's no real need to have both on the the water neck end as well.


My failure to build the 7age and make it last was due to 2 things... 1 is bad information online for 7afe torque specs (as it varies all over the place) and 2 is either a bad used rod(s) or crank.... (yes, it is also my fault for using used rods, I'm well aware). I never threw a rod or anything, but I definitely spun bearings (and 2 times was 2 too many)

However, when it ran just fine.... it wasn't all that exciting. The torque was better than a 4age, but the HP fell off fast up top.

[te51levin]

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

however, in stock format there's already only an 8mm bolt (12mm head) that retains the alternator in it's location (on the slider).... so there's no real need to have both on the the water neck end as well.

The bracket sees force in different directions, so I thought it was prudent not to undercut Toyota's engineering. It only took a few minutes to rework that bracket.

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

The torque was better than a 4age, but the HP fell off fast up top.

But you never really got yours tuned, did you? IIRC it was all seat of the pants, which is not truly objective. I have a feeling there was performance hiding in your engine that you never found because things like cam timing were never dialed in an objective fashion.

[toyotaspeed90]

Originally Posted by te51levin

The bracket sees force in different directions, so I thought it was prudent not to undercut Toyota's engineering. It only took a few minutes to rework that bracket.


But you never really got yours tuned, did you? IIRC it was all seat of the pants, which is not truly objective. I have a feeling there was performance hiding in your engine that you never found because things like cam timing were never dialed in an objective fashion.

well... we all know that the alternator is truly held in place by the lower bracket (and anyone who has had to replace their alternator will know this as true.... many people have even found their bolts missing and the alternator perfectly in place)..... So, if the lower bolt is nice & tight, the upper bolt is just there holding in place for the tension of the belt.... it isn't holding the alt up.... Anytime I have to do just an alt belt I always have to loosen the lower bolt.... my sequence is usually to loosen the upper slider bolt then attempt to move the alt (and it never does)... have my "doh" moment and loosen the lower bolt.... replace the belt, tighten the upper bolt then tighten the lower bolt.... More than likely I could remove the top bolt and the lower bolt would hold it in place.... The top bolt is there for a reason (clearly) but it really doesn't hold all that much tension.

But yes, if you have a welder at your house or readily available to you (which is one of the few tools I don't have) then you can also fabricate or modify yours to work with both bolt holes.

Anyways.... I did not have it on a dyno and tune it, no... However I had the adjustable cam gears (which were set for seat of the pants)... but I did have a wideband o2 installed on it and was actively watching it.

When the 7a spun the bearing I just installed a stock smallport motor, turned the AFR down a tad (by scaling the VE map), and the car was (and is) considerably faster than before.

[te51levin]

Originally Posted by toyotaspeed90

When the 7a spun the bearing I just installed a stock smallport motor, turned the AFR down a tad (by scaling the VE map), and the car was (and is) considerably faster than before.

Then that really means something was very wrong with your 7A - either ignition timing, or cam timing, or more likely, both.

I cannot repeat this often enough or with enough emphasis: a 7AGE inherintely upsets the geometry and the markers that Toyota uses to set ignition and camshaft timing. Unless you positively identify TDC, which you may have done since you were on crank trigger, your ignition timing and cam timing will absolutely not be correct. And if they're not set correctly, you're not making the power that the engine could otherwise be making.

I feel - strongly - that this is the crux of the "disappointing" 7AGE builds some people speak so poorly of.

[toyotaspeed90]

I'm sure it wasn't perfect.... However.... I did play with base timing figures in MS (which as you know is very easy to change)..... I also played with the cam gears quite a bit (would drive about 1/2 mile and then get out & change them a tad).... and had made markings where I felt it was the best and it kept coming back to that same spot. I was aware of this issue, which is why I had the adjustable gears (I have never felt the need on any 4a for these... so they were specifically obtained due to this reason). It did feel better in the MR than it did in my ae92, when I was using stock cam gears.

So yes, I both agree and disagree. In the time that I had it going I played with timing the most (although I was watching my AFR's I didn't need to modify them much)... I changed both ignition and cam timing quite a bit and checked timing (using a light) multiple times....

I noticed mostly that if the gears moved one way then it would be more peaky up top and slower at the bottom.... if I moved it the other way then the opposite would happen... I set it and left it when at one point I felt a significant change (for the plus) on both ends... I could feel good torque down low (better than a 4a) and almost the up top power of a 4a.....

I actually think that had I used at least bigport cams, it would have made a world of difference.