4AGE: Ceramic Coating a new Exhaust Manifold?

[q-authority]

Regarding the constant cracks on the #4 exhaust runner, has anyone with the very late exhaust manifold, where the egr bung was moved, experienced the same cracking? Please respond only if you have actually verified that it has or has not cracked on those.
My thought is that the egr bung location change may have actually been done in relationship to all that cracking on the early models, otherwise why change it? They didn't need to just for the sc application, that I am aware of. At least I don't see why they would have needed to.
I have verified that they no longer sell the old egr pipe, but do still sell the late model one, which is also different from the sc unit. I have ordered the late na model egr pipe, to use when I eventually have to replace the older style manifold on my '87 na. I'll buy a late model exhaust manifold to replace it, and use with the later egr pipe. comprende?

['89SC]

I know this thread is a year old but for information's sake:

q-authority, My 1989 SC stock cast iron header did crack at the #4 position in the usual place. I have ~150K miles on it and there is evidence of exhaust leakage on the inside of the upper heat shield. It was a multiple location kind of fracture with slightly lifted areas. The engine bay was stock up to that point.

RuzzTMan, because of the problem mentioned above, I am replacing my cracked cast iron SC manifold with a ST 20v header and Aaron Willis' b-pipe. I have had the header ceramic coated inside and out since the original heat shield will not yield to my beatings in order to make it fit the 20v header. I'm stuck at the point of fabbing a custom EGR tube to fit the bung I added to the 20v header so I have no actual time on the exhaust set-up as yet. I think ceramic coating is a great idea. I also had the alternator and AC compressor heat shields coated and the outside faces of those shield's coatings are polished to reflect maximum heat. It costs a bit, but I want longevity.

<edit> BTW, I just found the n/a EGR pipe is available from Toyota but the SC EGR pipe is discontinued. I checked two dealers for this and one of them was Lithia. Seems backwards from what you found. Q-authority, did you ever buy the SC EGR pipe and do you still have it?

[q-authority]

Originally Posted by '89SC

q-authority, My 1989 SC stock cast iron header did crack at the #4 position in the usual place. I have ~150K miles on it and there is evidence of exhaust leakage on the inside of the upper heat shield. It was a multiple location kind of fracture with slightly lifted areas. The engine bay was stock up to that point.

I also had the alternator and AC compressor heat shields coated and the outside faces of those shield's coatings are polished to reflect maximum heat. It costs a bit, but I want longevity.

<edit> BTW, I just found the n/a EGR pipe is available from Toyota but the SC EGR pipe is discontinued. I checked two dealers for this and one of them was Lithia. Seems backwards from what you found. Q-authority, did you ever buy the SC EGR pipe and do you still have it?

Interesting that your sc oem manifold cracked, pretty much the same as the na ones have. I just hadn't heard much of anything about this happening on them before.

I've also had the heat shields for the accessories ceramic coated, but haven't bothered to polish them as I used a silver ceramic coating, which is useful to the highest temps ceramic coatings are usually good for. I've only had general cast aluminum items polished and then clear ceramic coated, which is good to a lower temp than the non-clear coatings, but these items generally don't need the higher protection, plus I am trying to maintain the oem look of the parts as much as possible.

As for the egr pipes, as I stated, there appear to be two types of na pipes, '85-87 and '88-89, and then there is the sc pipe. The na egr pipe had to be changed after Toyota started using the new egr bung type manifold on both the sc and the na in '88 and '89 (one of those odd changes that didn't happen between '86 and '87). Supposedly the latter type na egr pipe is available, however, I managed to buy a used one instead. My dealer claims the sc egr pipes are no longer available, which seems a bit odd considering the others won't work on it, and it is available nowhere else.

I've now found that at least one or two other items, which Toyota U.S. dealers are claiming are no longer available are only no longer available over here, while I have seen the same items ordered from Japan for people in Australia, etc. I'm not sure how this started happening, but apparently there is some sort of real glitch in the Toyota U.S. parts distributor centers that control the ordering of these things. So, if yout local dealer tells you that the part is no longer made, that might not really be the case.

[mysc12]

so i got a used trd header with my motor with very little ruct on it still kinda shinny should i coat it or wrap it

[q-authority]

Originally Posted by mysc12

so i got a used trd header with my motor with very little ruct on it still kinda shinny should i coat it or wrap it

From my past experience with one of those, I would coat it instead of wrapping it. The reason for this is that they are made of relatively mild, thin steel. I ran a brand new one for several months without any wrap, way back when these things were still made, but it was burning up the firewall material, so I deceided to wrap it with heat tape. A few months later the header was dead, as the tubing around where they join together, with welds, just crumbled.

They can't take that kind of heat being held in like that. Remember that while ceramic coating is a good insulator, it will still probaby let significantly more heat escape than wrapping it will. Heat wrap can be an incredible insulator, and it can probably cause significant hot spots because you can't wrap a header nearly as evenly as you can ceramic coat it. Additionally, ceramic coating will preserve the exterior of the header, and keep it from rusting.

[mysc12]

thanks man good info

[aw11mr2]

Does anyone know about steam pipe exhaust?

[aw11mr2]

Originally Posted by aw11mr2

Does anyone know about steam pipe exhaust?

I'm planning on using a turbo on my 4age and was noticing the bends were around $3 each or something, depending on how many needed and what it would take to get-er-welded, and it seems like the only setup not mentioned on here...
anyone got any advice/input

[TomsMR2]

the early ecus lean out and crack the manifold from running too hot on that cyl.. it happens at high rpm. you'll probably sell the car before it cracks again, but the root problem is still there.

the oem manifold is excellent. probably the best option for a header for the mk1.

[aw11mr2]

Originally Posted by aw11mr2

Does anyone know about steam pipe exhaust?

Originally Posted by aw11mr2

..seems like the only setup not mentioned on here...
anyone got any advice/input

Any takers?

['89SC]

I didn't think about the 87+ n/a being a third pipe layout. Yeah, Toyota only told me of the early n/a and the SC pipes. I already ordered what looks like the early n/a pipe. I'm following up with this tomorrow, thanks!

BTW, ditto about ceramic coating and NOT wrapping the header. Even stainless gets killed by wrapping. Also, ceramic is applied on the inside of the pipe as well so I assume less heat gets into the pipe as a result.
I know I may get flamed for this but I also have a 1988 Fiero (there, I said it) and its stainless cross-over pipe was encased with a heatshield from the factory. Pontiac tried this only for '88. The shield was about an inch away from the pipe but coverage was total. The pipe was eventually so heat damaged it could not be welded, it just fell apart.

aw11mr2, sorry I don't know about steam pipe exhaust. You mean like steam pipes in ship's engine rooms? (pardon my noob background on your question)

[TomsMR2]

Originally Posted by aw11mr2

Does anyone know about steam pipe exhaust?

its used for turbo manifolds. i dont know what kind of answer you're looking for, its not used for making standard headers.

[aw11mr2]

is there any advantage in using this type of manifold compared to some of the expensive small hp gains manifolds out there like the hks turbo manifld (not too impressed with, looks like the leingths are unequal ) price wise basically i feel the technology is out there, and just waiting...(lost in thought).. to be bad ass all over my engine bay

[mysc12]

really a fiero

['89SC]

O.K, picture removed, honor is restored to the forum.

Sorry about the hijack.

[oldmancolin]

So I'm about to replace my cracked exhaust manifold with a new oem one I got from lithia and am wondering if it's worth it to paint just the outside of it at all.

I've got most of a can of VHT flameproof header paint left that I used to paint the heatshield and am wondering if it's worth it at all to paint the manifold.

Basically I can't afford to have it coated and am wondering if it's even worth my time to paint it. Would I be doing more harm than good?


BTW - RuzzTMan, the side view of your car looks nice, I'd love to know what body kit that is and see some more photos.

[q-authority]

Originally Posted by oldmancolin

So I'm about to replace my cracked exhaust manifold with a new oem one I got from lithia and am wondering if it's worth it to paint just the outside of it at all.

I've got most of a can of VHT flameproof header paint left that I used to paint the heatshield and am wondering if it's worth it at all to paint the manifold.

Basically I can't afford to have it coated and am wondering if it's even worth my time to paint it. Would I be doing more harm than good?

Unless you were going to leave off the heat shield, which I wouldn't do, it's probably a waste of time. The only reason to paint it, would be for show, but the heat shield almost completely hides it. Yeah, it will get a little rusty over time, but not enough to affect it.

[RuzzTMan]

Hey oldmancolin!

Well, I'll put it like this. I always think it's better to do things the right way the first time. So, even if that means you wait until you can afford to do it, then it's worth the wait. You've already done the right thing by buying a new OEM header from Lithia. You can give that header it's best chance at a long life by ceramic coating it. I just checked mine after almost a full year since install and it's doing just fine.

I still have 3 cans of VHT Flameproof paint that never got used since I opted for the professional coating. My main reasoning was, I'm no professional with a can of paint and there was no way I'd be able to evenly coat the inside of the tubing, let alone sand blast it to make it smooth. If you coat only the outside with VHT, then the inside gets abnormally hotter, which could lead to stress on the #4 header pipe over time resulting in every MR2 Mk1 owners well known problem.

So, my advise is to wait a couple weeks or a month until you can afford to spend the money to do it right; get it ceramic coated inside and out. You own a piece of history right now and if you plan on keeping it a while, why not baby your baby where it's most beneficial?

By the way, the guys I used are fairly close to you and they did a superb job. When you get your headers back from them, you will be very happy. I used the box Lithia shipped it in to mail it to Performance Coatings in Auburn, WA. Performance Coatings. They charged me $140 for the job and shipping (to Montana, I'm in SoCal now), and it was done in a week. So, I'm guessing shipping might be around $20 or so less for you. $120 to never deal with a header again would be worth it to me.

As far as the body kit, it was on the car when I bought it two years ago. I have looked for it online and had no luck finding the kit. But, I have since decided to revert my car to it's original state and look so I removed the front and rear pieces. If you or anybody else is interested in them, I think I'd be willing to sell them for a pretty reasonable price + shipping. They need to be blasted and road dings need to be touched up with fiberglass or filler then repainted. So, let me know.

Good luck with your 2!
I just got yet another note on my car today with some random person asking me to sell my 2 to them. Not gonna happen!

Originally Posted by oldmancolin

So I'm about to replace my cracked exhaust manifold with a new oem one I got from lithia and am wondering if it's worth it to paint just the outside of it at all.

I've got most of a can of VHT flameproof header paint left that I used to paint the heatshield and am wondering if it's worth it at all to paint the manifold.

Basically I can't afford to have it coated and am wondering if it's even worth my time to paint it. Would I be doing more harm than good?


BTW - RuzzTMan, the side view of your car looks nice, I'd love to know what body kit that is and see some more photos.

[q-authority]

Well, I can definitely vouch for Performance Coatings in Auburn, WA. They've done all of the coating work on my stuff (ceramic, heat dispersant, oil dispersant, etc.), and have done an excellent job.

[oldmancolin]

Well, seeing as how I'm unemployed I don't think I'll have any extra money for professional ceramic coatings anytime soon. It came stock without any coating so it'll be fine for quite a while I'm sure. Once I've got a good job and a garage I wanna do a 20v swap anyways.

Now, If it would just quit raining here for one day I could get this done. I've had to wait to do this exhaust job for weeks. I want my low end torque back dammit! Not having a garage or even a usable driveway really sucks! I've gotta wait until the weekend to use the parking lot behind my house.