Why is my 2 Understeering???

cakemashin' · 11-27-2008, 08:16 PM

i know the MR2 is known for oversteer, but i am having a problem with it understeering when i am accelerating and turning hard. is this just bad driving by me or could it be a potential problem with the suspension?... the struts, shocks, and springs do need to be replaced (they have about 166,000 miles on them)... i don't know if that would affect it or not. the car is a '91 automatic

328FTW · 11-27-2008, 08:32 PM

Shocks affect a cars handling an amazing amount so it could be a problem. Also factors such as wheel alignment, tyres, spring rates, missing sway bars etc etc can affect it. I would suggest changing the shocks if you were going to anyway then get a wheel alignment. In that order cause otherwise you will undo the alignment when you change the shocks. 91 MR2s have a lot of suspension adjustments that can seriously affect handling.

10sigh · 11-27-2008, 08:40 PM

The shocks could be the problem, but then again mid engine rwd cars do tend to understeer under acceleration since the weight distribution tends to cause the front to lift during acceleration.

lamourke · 11-27-2008, 10:26 PM

Are the 2nd Gens that different from the 1st gens? I never have a problem with steering when I corner, and I corner very fast :-) maybe it's my wheels/tires I'm running 205/40 17s up front and 235/40 17 rear.

kbrew8991 · 11-27-2008, 11:02 PM

alignment settings?
tires & sizes?

cakemashin' · 11-27-2008, 11:48 PM

not sure of the alignment settings, but the alignment is decent. tires are the stock 195/60R14 in front and 205/60R14 in rear. i will change the shocks as soon as i can. gonna get some lowering springs too

mr29180 · 11-27-2008, 11:50 PM

well just get 93 and up crossmember... That's my understandin..
They said that it's more beefier suspention and breakin system!!!

kbrew8991 · 11-28-2008, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr29180

well just get 93 and up crossmember... That's my understandin..
They said that it's more beefier suspention and breakin system!!!

NOPE. It won't do much, and what it will do is increase rear grip which will cause a bit more understeer. The brakes are also only bigger on the 93+ turbo cars... so nothing you really suggested will help him.

it is also my experience that the 93+ tweak in the rear suspension is pretty overrated (I have tracked both a '91 and '94 quite a bit). I could change the rear toe settings and make you guess wrong which car had which cross member... The problem is largely placebo and/or improper rear toe in settings that get people to say "oh wow, what a big difference" imho.

it's alright, this is how ya learn...

anyway, to the op - alignment is "decent".. well, what camber, caster, toe up front and what camber and toe out back? "decent" gives me nothing to suggest what to change settings-wise to help you.

your width-difference front to rear is good, but I'm also curious what kind of tire they are.. that may alter what changes I suggest in your alignment

albertgunit101 · 11-28-2008, 12:08 AM

i am understeering too big time. but i know that my tires are POS and my shocks are need to be replaced. and like they said if youre rims are not properly staggered, you will have that problem. coz i already experience that from the past that is why i stick to my 93 OEM rims.

Gairloch · 11-28-2008, 12:09 AM

First all, if you're understeering it's because you're carrying too much speed. You have to adapt to the conditions regardless of whether it's blown suspension or gravel on the road.

If you do have broken parts such as blown suspension then you definitely want to pay attention to that first. If you want to carry more speed through corners then the first mod you want to pay attention to is your tires. Stickier tires will make a difference but tire pressures and alignment also make a huge difference. Even just a couple of pounds pressure difference can completely change how the car handles.

'93+ suspension won't help with understeer, if anything it will exaggerate it. Ultimately it's all about how you drive the car though. If you want to be a good driver you need to learn how to get whatever behavior you want out of the equipment you have to work with whatever that may be.

mr29180 · 11-28-2008, 12:12 AM

Well thanks I just read that from other thread so thanks for letting me or us know!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kbrew8991

NOPE. It won't do much, and what it will do is increase rear grip which will cause a bit more understeer. The brakes are also only bigger on the 93+ turbo cars... so nothing you really suggested will help him.

it is also my experience that the 93+ tweak in the rear suspension is pretty overrated (I have tracked both a '91 and '94 quite a bit). I could change the rear toe settings and make you guess wrong which car had which cross member... The problem is largely placebo and/or improper rear toe in settings that get people to say "oh wow, what a big difference" imho.

it's alright, this is how ya learn...

anyway, to the op - alignment is "decent".. well, what camber, caster, toe up front and what camber and toe out back? "decent" gives me nothing to suggest what to change settings-wise to help you.

your width-difference front to rear is good, but I'm also curious what kind of tire they are.. that may alter what changes I suggest in your alignment

kbrew8991 · 11-28-2008, 12:14 AM

its alright, thats how you learn - can't take everything at the internet at face value, but if you get someone talking that has some experience they're typically not very far off

jamesp · 11-28-2008, 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cakemashin'

i know the MR2 is known for oversteer, but i am having a problem with it understeering when i am accelerating and turning hard. is this just bad driving by me or could it be a potential problem with the suspension?... the struts, shocks, and springs do need to be replaced (they have about 166,000 miles on them)... i don't know if that would affect it or not. the car is a '91 automatic

Where in the cornering phase does the understeer start, and where does it understeer the most? corner entry? corner exit?

Depending on where the understeer happens, it will point to different factors, some of which car setup can fix. And in other cases, you have to fix the nut behind the wheel

There are pretty good explanations for this stuff in Henry Watts' Expert Techniques for Autocross and Time Trials. It's pretty much the bible for Autocross.

Sh0ty · 11-28-2008, 10:36 AM

Also there's very little weight in the front. Midship cars tend to have pretty band understeer that turns into pretty quick oversteer if you get on the throttle. If you break before a corner, and move the weight to the front, you'll get rid of alot of that understeer (assuming your car's set up correctly and doesn't need new parts).

cakemashin' · 11-28-2008, 11:59 AM

i don't know the exact alignment settings... i just say it's decent because it doesn't really pull to the left or right.... (when it comes to numbers and specifications, i don't have a clue as to what i'm talking about, ha ha...still learning how to work on cars, and i'm not very good with very technical stuff... i pretty much just know how to change the oil and some various parts that go bad, ha ha).

as for tires, the rear tires are bf goodwrench, and the fronts are falkens. they have a good amount of tread. i want to put aftermarket wheels and lower profile tires on it, but i haven't had the chance to put anything better on, due to no job.

it typically understeers in corner entry. could some of the reason be that it's an automatic and it doesn't have as much "giddy-up" or thrust during acceleration that it's not causing the rear to whip around as much?? I WANT A MANUAL TRANNY!!!

anyways, thanks for all of the input fellas.... i know i may not be too helpful cuz of my lack of knowledge. I REALLY appreciate the help

Luni · 11-28-2008, 04:56 PM

If you enter a corner too hot chances are you will understeer. If you go in slow, and try and come out too hot, youll oversteer.

Mr2s WILL understeer if you dont have grip up front. When you try accelerating into a corner, you lose traction up front.

I think it might be a combination of your driving habit, and your tires. Mostly your driving habit.

328FTW · 11-28-2008, 09:23 PM

Even though it is not pulling to the left or right I would still get an alignment check at some point. Toe in and toe out on either or both sets of wheels won't necessarily cause it to pull but can still cause understeer and oversteer. Lower profile tyres may not help either, compound and tread pattern will but a combo of low profile with a good compund makes for a reasonable tyre. My friend put 16" wheels with low profile tyres on his car but they were so hard that it would slide even during casual driving.

lamourke · 11-29-2008, 06:56 PM

I enter hot and leave hot I'm running dunlop FM901s I need new tires but the FMs are out of production now - any reccommendations?

As far as 2nd gens go with cornering - if your running stock tires, you need to change em before you start to corner fast. My brother-in-law has a 2nd gen with stock tires and it can't corner 1/2 as well as my 1st gen. it's amazing what a difference tires can make.

11-27-2008, 08:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
cakemashin' Cage Fighter Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hempstead, TX Posts: 152 Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Why is my 2 Understeering??? i know the MR2 is known for oversteer, but i am having a problem with it understeering when i am accelerating and turning hard. is this just bad driving by me or could it be a potential problem with the suspension?... the struts, shocks, and springs do need to be replaced (they have about 166,000 miles on them)... i don't know if that would affect it or not. the car is a '91 automatic

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11-27-2008, 08:32 PM	#2 (permalink)
328FTW Crazy Nasty Honey Badger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,236 Thanks: 24 Thanked 266 Times in 239 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Shocks affect a cars handling an amazing amount so it could be a problem. Also factors such as wheel alignment, tyres, spring rates, missing sway bars etc etc can affect it. I would suggest changing the shocks if you were going to anyway then get a wheel alignment. In that order cause otherwise you will undo the alignment when you change the shocks. 91 MR2s have a lot of suspension adjustments that can seriously affect handling.

11-27-2008, 08:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
10sigh No Skills Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 1 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The shocks could be the problem, but then again mid engine rwd cars do tend to understeer under acceleration since the weight distribution tends to cause the front to lift during acceleration.

11-27-2008, 10:26 PM	#4 (permalink)
lamourke world traveler Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: woodbridge, va Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Are the 2nd Gens that different from the 1st gens? I never have a problem with steering when I corner, and I corner very fast :-) maybe it's my wheels/tires I'm running 205/40 17s up front and 235/40 17 rear.

11-27-2008, 11:02 PM	#5 (permalink)
kbrew8991 gimme some turns Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,685 Thanks: 76 Thanked 82 Times in 70 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	alignment settings? tires & sizes?

11-27-2008, 11:48 PM	#6 (permalink)
cakemashin' Cage Fighter Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hempstead, TX Posts: 152 Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	not sure of the alignment settings, but the alignment is decent. tires are the stock 195/60R14 in front and 205/60R14 in rear. i will change the shocks as soon as i can. gonna get some lowering springs too

11-27-2008, 11:50 PM	#7 (permalink)
mr29180 Cage fighter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Frisco (bay area) Posts: 1,368 Thanks: 7 Thanked 42 Times in 37 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	well just get 93 and up crossmember... That's my understandin.. They said that it's more beefier suspention and breakin system!!!

11-28-2008, 12:08 AM	#9 (permalink)
albertgunit101 Cage Fighter Join Date: May 2007 Location: illinois Posts: 1,172 Thanks: 91 Thanked 22 Times in 22 Posts iTrader Rating: (16/100% )	i am understeering too big time. but i know that my tires are POS and my shocks are need to be replaced. and like they said if youre rims are not properly staggered, you will have that problem. coz i already experience that from the past that is why i stick to my 93 OEM rims.

11-28-2008, 12:09 AM	#10 (permalink)
Gairloch Dreaming of apexes Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 5,313 Thanks: 139 Thanked 296 Times in 264 Posts Blog Entries: 4 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	First all, if you're understeering it's because you're carrying too much speed. You have to adapt to the conditions regardless of whether it's blown suspension or gravel on the road. If you do have broken parts such as blown suspension then you definitely want to pay attention to that first. If you want to carry more speed through corners then the first mod you want to pay attention to is your tires. Stickier tires will make a difference but tire pressures and alignment also make a huge difference. Even just a couple of pounds pressure difference can completely change how the car handles. '93+ suspension won't help with understeer, if anything it will exaggerate it. Ultimately it's all about how you drive the car though. If you want to be a good driver you need to learn how to get whatever behavior you want out of the equipment you have to work with whatever that may be.

11-28-2008, 12:14 AM	#12 (permalink)
kbrew8991 gimme some turns Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 1,685 Thanks: 76 Thanked 82 Times in 70 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	its alright, thats how you learn - can't take everything at the internet at face value, but if you get someone talking that has some experience they're typically not very far off

11-28-2008, 10:36 AM	#14 (permalink)
Sh0ty Armchair Racer Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Novi, MI Posts: 1,273 Thanks: 22 Thanked 57 Times in 54 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	Also there's very little weight in the front. Midship cars tend to have pretty band understeer that turns into pretty quick oversteer if you get on the throttle. If you break before a corner, and move the weight to the front, you'll get rid of alot of that understeer (assuming your car's set up correctly and doesn't need new parts).

11-28-2008, 11:59 AM	#15 (permalink)
cakemashin' Cage Fighter Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Hempstead, TX Posts: 152 Thanks: 6 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	i don't know the exact alignment settings... i just say it's decent because it doesn't really pull to the left or right.... (when it comes to numbers and specifications, i don't have a clue as to what i'm talking about, ha ha...still learning how to work on cars, and i'm not very good with very technical stuff... i pretty much just know how to change the oil and some various parts that go bad, ha ha). as for tires, the rear tires are bf goodwrench, and the fronts are falkens. they have a good amount of tread. i want to put aftermarket wheels and lower profile tires on it, but i haven't had the chance to put anything better on, due to no job. it typically understeers in corner entry. could some of the reason be that it's an automatic and it doesn't have as much "giddy-up" or thrust during acceleration that it's not causing the rear to whip around as much?? I WANT A MANUAL TRANNY!!! anyways, thanks for all of the input fellas.... i know i may not be too helpful cuz of my lack of knowledge. I REALLY appreciate the help

11-28-2008, 04:56 PM	#16 (permalink)
Luni Cage Fighter Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Salt Lake City Utah Posts: 3,213 Thanks: 10 Thanked 130 Times in 110 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (8/100% )	If you enter a corner too hot chances are you will understeer. If you go in slow, and try and come out too hot, youll oversteer. Mr2s WILL understeer if you dont have grip up front. When you try accelerating into a corner, you lose traction up front. I think it might be a combination of your driving habit, and your tires. Mostly your driving habit.

11-28-2008, 09:23 PM	#17 (permalink)
328FTW Crazy Nasty Honey Badger Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: New Zealand Posts: 5,236 Thanks: 24 Thanked 266 Times in 239 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Even though it is not pulling to the left or right I would still get an alignment check at some point. Toe in and toe out on either or both sets of wheels won't necessarily cause it to pull but can still cause understeer and oversteer. Lower profile tyres may not help either, compound and tread pattern will but a combo of low profile with a good compund makes for a reasonable tyre. My friend put 16" wheels with low profile tyres on his car but they were so hard that it would slide even during casual driving.

11-29-2008, 06:56 PM	#18 (permalink)
lamourke world traveler Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: woodbridge, va Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I enter hot and leave hot I'm running dunlop FM901s I need new tires but the FMs are out of production now - any reccommendations? As far as 2nd gens go with cornering - if your running stock tires, you need to change em before you start to corner fast. My brother-in-law has a 2nd gen with stock tires and it can't corner 1/2 as well as my 1st gen. it's amazing what a difference tires can make.