Alignment specs... aggr. driving setup

[MR2Coop]

so i installed ingalls cam bolts today and i went to align it... and i was just curious what camber angle people are running on MR2 street cars set up for a little bit of aggresive driving habits...

[tstoney82]

lay the camber an extra 1/2 degree in. this should be a good setup for aggressive street driving without wearing the tires as bad. the mr2 comes with a slight camber to the front wheels so adding the little extra is fine, but dont over do it. i would suggest putting a slight caster adjustment on it too. this will help with the returnability of the steering as well as creating a bigger "contact patch" from the front tires to the ground when turning.

[MR2Coop]

now that i have a little more time to type, heres the specifics, im running bilstein struts, trd springs, trd front and rear sway bars running 205 50 15's in the front and 225 50 15s in the rear (BFG G-force sports) when the prev owner got an alignment done at the dealer, they set the front AND rear camber to 0.0 so when id take turns it would slip pretty easy, i installed the cam bolts and according to my alignment machine its calling for -1.5 camber in the rears and -1.0 in the front, but from what ive read in the past u want more camber in the front and less in the back, i endded up going with -.5 camber in the rear and i have to fix the front but i was gonna run -1.0 in the front... as far as caster goes is there an adjustment for this? i didnte even bother looking i assumed (<< u know what they say) that i had to buy the tein tension rod in order to have caster adjustments. after setting the rear to -.5 i notice a big diffrence, corners i couldnt mash the throttle before because the rear would begin to slip i can now with out it happening but im running -2.0 in the front cuz i installed the cambolts wrong and i gotta flip em and all i had time to do was set the toe... lemme know what ya think.

and as far as caster, is the goal as much pos caster as possible or is there a number i should be looking to get there aswell?

[Davis]

If you have a pre-93' you have adjustable caster.

[mr2nv]

you should try for around 2 degrees in front and 1.5 in the rear. also be aware of your toe because that will wear tires more than camber will. i would dial in a bit of toe out in the front and a bit of toe in in the rear for stability.

[tstoney82]

you dont want positive caster, you want negative. as far as the guy setting everything to zero, if he was using a hunter machine, there is a setting on there to adjust everything to zero which makes it easier for the mechanic to dial it in perfectly. even though it says zero, you still have camber and caster settings above or below that. it just uses the number zero to show that it is on the required spec. the +/- degrees show the difference between the factory setting (which hunter calls zero) and the current setting of the vehicle. so in retrospec, if he set it to zero, its at factory spec. anything beyond that is what you are looking to achieve.

[Tjzsin4given]

Thanks for the Info. I dont have My Mr2 yet but i play a simulation game called Forza two and the settings for camber caster and toe are all realistic. I do use negative caster to get a bigger Contact patch and to keep the tires straight on a hard corner i use -0.5 toe. usually people say "if it works in Forza 2, it works in real life". try it and see what happens!

[tstoney82]

Originally Posted by Tjzsin4given

Thanks for the Info. I dont have My Mr2 yet but i play a simulation game called Forza two and the settings for camber caster and toe are all realistic. I do use negative caster to get a bigger Contact patch and to keep the tires straight on a hard corner i use -0.5 toe. usually people say "if it works in Forza 2, it works in real life". try it and see what happens!

gran turismo 2 or 3 were extremely realistic in their suspension setups and the perfomance afterwards.

as far as the toe goes, i would leave it alone and see what happens. the reason i say this is because:

lets say you put a -2 degree setting on the caster and another -.5 or -1 degree on the camber. when the wheels are turned, the tire on the outside will be completely (or close to) flat on the ground, while the inside tire will be riding on the inside edge of the tire. the centrifugal force and rotational movement of the tire, along with the steering dynamics of the vehicle, will force the vehicle around the corner. now lets say you add or subtract a slight degree of toe. this will completely change the way the tires react with one another around the curve. for instance if you toe in .5 degrees the inside tire (during the turn) will be fighting against the outside tire, effectively slowing down the turn or causing steering issues, plus increased tire wear. but, if you toe out .5 degrees, you could effectively increase the speed at which you go through the turn and possibly increase the amount of oversteer the mr2 naturally has. (which is scary as hell at high speeds) if both toe angles are set at the factory "zero" the best performance will be had for aggressive driving as well as daily driving. not that -.5 is a bad thing, but anything over .5 degrees in either direction during daily driving will cause either a crooked steering wheel, quick tire wear, or a combo of the two.

[tstoney82]

btw.....i am an alignment specialist by day so thats why i can ramble on for so long.

[Tjzsin4given]

Sounds like you know your stuffSo ima keep you in mind when i get mine

[tstoney82]

Originally Posted by Tjzsin4given

Sounds like you know your stuffSo ima keep you in mind when i get mine

i'll be glad to help anyone out. just hit me up.

[MR2Coop]

ok well, im the tech doing the alignment first off lol, and unfortunately we dont have a hunter we have a freakin joe bean its crap but it gets the job done. No its not a pre 93 its a 93 so i dont have caster adjustment. i ended up going with -1 camber in the front and -.5 in the rear and a world of diffrence it made from when it was at 0/0 camber before. the main reason i came on here to ask this question was to just find out if people are running a specific setup other than stock specs. The main reason i had asked was because ive read a few write ups on some serious road racing guys about suspension setups and when they went into the alignment they all said to make sure the front has more camber then the rear, and to make sure the front is stiffer than the rear but when i threw up my car on the rack, according to the specs it wanted more camber in the front than in the rear, opposite of what ive read up. im not trying to throw my toe out i do want my tires to wear as slow as possible. Now as far as caster goes, why would i want to throw more negative caster to my car? i dont doubt ur knowledge its just that I know the more negative caster u have the "looser" the steering will feel, positive caster will give u more negative camber in turns, which alows u to have a lower static camber degree to have a higher amount of rubber on straights for breakign affectiveness, still a high amount of camber in turns which is the only time u really need camber lol.

Again i have -1 in the front and -.5 in the rear and i have full control in turns now its very nice

[Tjzsin4given]

exactly you just answered your own question!

the more negative caster u have the "looser" the steering will feel, positive caster will give u more negative camber in turns, which alows u to have a lower static camber degree to have a higher amount of rubber on straights for breakign affectiveness, still a high amount of camber in turns which is the only time u really need camber lol.

if thats not what your looking for then dont go for it.
but one thing you forgot is that it also makes it stronger on a straight away.
for me with an MR2 i want to keep my tires on the road as much as possible because on the exit of a hard turn the rear end will keep turning. thats another reason why a lot of MR2 racers use toe-in on the rear axle and leave the front axle alone that way your not forcing yourself thew he turn you grafully "RIP-IT"!!!!!!
oh yeah you said its street cars set up for a little bit of aggresive driving habits... not a race car. sorry. hope it helps anyway

[MR2Coop]

yea im mainly trying to get a less aggresive roadracing alignment spec for aggresive driving habits for 1. better handling/traction and 2. keep tire life

[kbrew8991]

sounds like some ok settings floating around for street tires - I feel that toe-out in the front is very overrated for our cars, no change in feel or response for me just wears tires faster but to each thier own

[MR2Coop]

now someone (too lazy to scroll up and see who) stated the pre 93's have a caster adjustment? is this a part that we can swap onto our 93+s or for us 93 ups do we need to get aftermarket tension rods.... jsut curious... also does anyone else have any opinions on -1 camber in the front and -.5 in the rear?

[kbrew8991]

I think you'd want -1.5 and -1.0 at least, maybe more negative even, for street tires if you're really looking for performance - my $0.02.

[mr2nv]

I was able to get 1.5 using the stock bolts. Stock camber is around there. I would go for 2 in the front and at least 1.5 in the rear. I believe you can swap in pre-93 parts to get caster adjustment.

[tstoney82]

more negative caster doesnt give you a looser steering wheel, it gives you returnability from the steering wheel making it easier to come out of turns and drive straighter. positive caster loosens the steering wheel and creates some pretty crappy driving experiences.(much like a big rig)

so anyways, i checked the factory specs and i would have to agree with kbrew.....-1.5 camber in front, -.5 to -1 in the rear. that is after you set the caster an extra .5 degree negative. this should be a near perfect setup for the 2 for some aggressive street driving and still maintain daily drivability without horribly wearing the tires.

as far as switching the parts from a pre 93 to a 93......im pretty sure it can be done, but if it cant, you can buy aftermarket kits for the adjustments you want to make.

[MR2Coop]

ahh ok i c... well thats good to know. yea i may step it up to 1.5 front and 1 rear im gonna drive it like this for a bit and see if its what i like