93 5sfe - SMT6 installed and working - Page 2

mrturrari · 10-07-2007, 02:34 PM

Also for anyone else trying to follow along, here is a screen shot of the SMT6 software after a different set of misfires with the tracer turned on. Weasy2k this is the one I sent you in my PM:

The concerning thing is that the tracer hit a cell at 6300rpms when the engine never went there. A few minutes later it happened again and the engine died. This screen shot was taken after I pulled off and tried to restart the car. The fact that the tracer doesn't show it hitting any of the lower rpm cells means the SMT6 was no longer talking to the laptop after the second misfire. It also wouldn't start until I turned the power off to it.

Weasy2k · 10-07-2007, 02:55 PM

There is noise in the line...the smt6 does not like noise at all did you put the pick up on yet?

mrturrari · 10-07-2007, 03:19 PM

You mean the pull-up (Blue-black)? Yes, the pull-up is connected to the SMT6 yellow wire. I have yet to try putting the SMT6 back on the distributor signal with the pull-up. Right now it is connected to the igniter the same as the 3sgte guys are using. I'll try that out this week.

Weasy2k · 10-07-2007, 04:49 PM

yea try that i have had success both ways on some and only one way on others....

Final13 · 10-20-2007, 11:53 AM

Ive been looking for this exact info, how have I missed it for so long?

mrturrari · 10-20-2007, 02:40 PM

So I had been running the car in bypass mode with no problems. Then Tuesday night I was messing around and did some full throttle shifts and heading into third the engine died. Checking the codes revealed I had both a MAP sensor and IGT signal failure. At that point light bulb appeared above my head.

The car wouldn't stay running when I tried to get going again. So I made sure all my connections were good... still nothing. Then unplugged and plugged back in the SMT6 bypass board and that fixed it. It was definitely the connector causing the problem. So I took the car over to my Dad's and he happened to have some contact cleaner/lubricant and I dowsed both sides of the connector with it and plugged the SMT6 back in. It's now been running for 4 days without a hick-up. I am chalking this up to the fact that it may have been sitting on a shelf for months, maybe years, and who knows in what kind of environment. I'm guessing the contacts had oxidized just enough to give me random problems but still work most of the time. I'm going to keep testing it for a few more days and if I get no more problems put the big injectors back in. Fingers crossed.

mrturrari · 10-30-2007, 01:52 AM

Well the 315cc injectors are back in but I am still having some intermittent problems. Cleaning the connector helped but hick-ups still show up every couple of days. There are two different problems that I am seeing. The first is when the tach needle drops and it misses a few ignition events. Usually no big deal. The second problem seems to be the MAP sensor circuit going stupid and it goes to 10:1 AFRs until I reset the ECU by turning off the ignition. I can see the AFRs fluctuate a lot at around 3500rpms when it's in closed loop mode under light load. I'm convinced it is noise from the ignition system causing problems on both the SMT6 ignition and map circuits. I'm going to try some different methods of getting rid of it when I get the chance but it good enough that I am daily driving it.

Mister2.2 · 10-30-2007, 03:09 AM

Are you sharing the same ground location or using different ones?

mrturrari · 10-30-2007, 07:49 PM

I've tried it both ways... with a common ground with the ECU and directly to the trunk firewall. Both give the same results though. I have some ideas though for quieting it down. I also might filter the HF on the MAP sensor wire as it doesn't need a super fast response.

skillzo1 · 10-30-2007, 08:45 PM

This is a very good thread. Keep up the good work.

Mister2.2 · 10-30-2007, 10:28 PM

They should use the same ground. You may want to try using EMI filters on the wires or something.

Weasy2k · 11-04-2007, 01:24 PM

mrturrari,
judging by the problems you are having...i dont think it really is the smt6 now, grounds are really tricky and have been known to cause MANY problems when hooking up the smt6 to these cars (even the Tacoma). Talk to your dad about building a noise filter as mentioned above to help with noise.
There is a OEM one in the car already that is located to the right of the coil and ignitor look at what colour brown wire there is there (i think its brown-red) and see if you can go into that ground.

mrturrari · 11-07-2007, 01:11 AM

The coil is in the distributor on the 93+ 5sfes.

I put a band-aid on the problem though with the noise getting on the MAP sensor line that was causing the ECU to freak out. To fix it put in a 1k resister in the line and then a 1uF capacitor to ground on the SMT6 side of the resister. That effectively filters out the higher frequency spikes but it changed the voltage slightly so I had to alter the fuel maps a couple of points here and there. The AFRs still swing more then they should at 3500rpms but only by a little unlike before when it would sometimes go the range of the wide band gauge.

I still get dropped ignition events a couple of times a day but they are not bad enough to trip the CEL. I bought a new distributor that I am going to try this next weekend and see if that helps.

Final13 · 11-07-2007, 02:00 AM

So I can expect personal group smt6 install sessions soon right

blumr2 · 11-07-2007, 03:20 AM

Boy, tuning sure sounds like fun. haha

Weasy2k · 11-07-2007, 03:56 AM

THere is a little grey thing that sits by the fuse box on the firewall..that is the OEM filter, some people have tapped into that for a ground with great sucess!

Do you have a after market stereo system in your car?

mrturrari · 11-09-2007, 12:43 AM

There is a gray connector on the igniter bracket with two wires going to it. Are you saying that one or both of those two wires is the ECU ground and that little box is a filter? I'll have to trace it back when it's light out.

I replaced the distributor and moved some of the wires further away from it and the ignition wires. The problem got worse.

No problems on the MAP circuit but the ignition misses every couple of minutes while cruising. The distributor has needed replacing for a while because the connector to the cams was rattling.

mrturrari · 11-09-2007, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Final13

So I can expect personal group smt6 install sessions soon right

I have barely gotten it working on my car.. are you sure you want me helping with yours?

mrturrari · 11-10-2007, 01:06 AM

Ok, I rearranged some of the engine harness wires to get them further away from the distributor and put the old distributor back in. The SMT6 did not like that after market one at all. Maybe I can switch the electronics from the old one to that one so I have the new mechanicals.

The problem seems to be gone for now. Not a single glitch all day driving around town and on the freeway total of about 80 miles. The gray box turned out to have 12v on the wire side so it couldn't be used as a ground. It is a filter of some sort but for switched power.

Weasy2k, I do have an after market stereo and amp but I can turn them completely off and nothing changes. They are wired up with no ground loops.

On another side note my wide band O2 sensor has been acting strangely the last couple of days and last night it died. Luckily Autozone had another one for $50. I have a Zeitronix and they use the Bosch 17014.

mrturrari · 01-12-2008, 06:28 PM

I guess I should give an update because it has been a while. The SMT6 is working great and I have noticed no problems for two months now. The things that finally solved my noise problems were moving the wiring harness as far away from the ignition wires and coil as possible and filtering the MAP circuit. This probably only needs to be done on the 93+ rev 2 5sfes because the coil is in the distributor and so is closer to other wires that can pick up stray voltages from it. The SMT6 is a great little box and gives you the ability to tune both fuel and spark timing. It's not a stand alone but because it uses the stock ECU as a base you don't have as much effort to get it working.

10-07-2007, 02:34 PM	#21 (permalink)
mrturrari I <3 my 5sfe Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 655 Thanks: 2 Thanked 170 Times in 113 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Also for anyone else trying to follow along, here is a screen shot of the SMT6 software after a different set of misfires with the tracer turned on. Weasy2k this is the one I sent you in my PM: The concerning thing is that the tracer hit a cell at 6300rpms when the engine never went there. A few minutes later it happened again and the engine died. This screen shot was taken after I pulled off and tried to restart the car. The fact that the tracer doesn't show it hitting any of the lower rpm cells means the SMT6 was no longer talking to the laptop after the second misfire. It also wouldn't start until I turned the power off to it. Last edited by mrturrari; 10-07-2007 at 02:50 PM..

10-30-2007, 03:09 AM	#28 (permalink)
Mister2.2 Cheese it! Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,561 Thanks: 121 Thanked 115 Times in 99 Posts Blog Entries: 1 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	Are you sharing the same ground location or using different ones? __________________ --Josh MR2Trader.com Free to Buy and Sell your MR2 Parts!

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Toyota MR2 Message Board	This thread	Refback	09-22-2007 07:03 PM

10-07-2007, 02:55 PM	#22 (permalink)
Weasy2k What is an MR2? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,891 Thanks: 33 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	There is noise in the line...the smt6 does not like noise at all did you put the pick up on yet?

10-07-2007, 03:19 PM	#23 (permalink)
mrturrari I <3 my 5sfe Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 655 Thanks: 2 Thanked 170 Times in 113 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	You mean the pull-up (Blue-black)? Yes, the pull-up is connected to the SMT6 yellow wire. I have yet to try putting the SMT6 back on the distributor signal with the pull-up. Right now it is connected to the igniter the same as the 3sgte guys are using. I'll try that out this week.

10-07-2007, 04:49 PM	#24 (permalink)
Weasy2k What is an MR2? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,891 Thanks: 33 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	yea try that i have had success both ways on some and only one way on others....

10-20-2007, 11:53 AM	#25 (permalink)
Final13 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 383 Thanks: 6 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Ive been looking for this exact info, how have I missed it for so long?

10-20-2007, 02:40 PM	#26 (permalink)
mrturrari I <3 my 5sfe Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 655 Thanks: 2 Thanked 170 Times in 113 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	So I had been running the car in bypass mode with no problems. Then Tuesday night I was messing around and did some full throttle shifts and heading into third the engine died. Checking the codes revealed I had both a MAP sensor and IGT signal failure. At that point light bulb appeared above my head. The car wouldn't stay running when I tried to get going again. So I made sure all my connections were good... still nothing. Then unplugged and plugged back in the SMT6 bypass board and that fixed it. It was definitely the connector causing the problem. So I took the car over to my Dad's and he happened to have some contact cleaner/lubricant and I dowsed both sides of the connector with it and plugged the SMT6 back in. It's now been running for 4 days without a hick-up. I am chalking this up to the fact that it may have been sitting on a shelf for months, maybe years, and who knows in what kind of environment. I'm guessing the contacts had oxidized just enough to give me random problems but still work most of the time. I'm going to keep testing it for a few more days and if I get no more problems put the big injectors back in. Fingers crossed.

10-30-2007, 01:52 AM	#27 (permalink)
mrturrari I <3 my 5sfe Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 655 Thanks: 2 Thanked 170 Times in 113 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Well the 315cc injectors are back in but I am still having some intermittent problems. Cleaning the connector helped but hick-ups still show up every couple of days. There are two different problems that I am seeing. The first is when the tach needle drops and it misses a few ignition events. Usually no big deal. The second problem seems to be the MAP sensor circuit going stupid and it goes to 10:1 AFRs until I reset the ECU by turning off the ignition. I can see the AFRs fluctuate a lot at around 3500rpms when it's in closed loop mode under light load. I'm convinced it is noise from the ignition system causing problems on both the SMT6 ignition and map circuits. I'm going to try some different methods of getting rid of it when I get the chance but it good enough that I am daily driving it.

10-30-2007, 07:49 PM	#29 (permalink)
mrturrari I <3 my 5sfe Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 655 Thanks: 2 Thanked 170 Times in 113 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I've tried it both ways... with a common ground with the ECU and directly to the trunk firewall. Both give the same results though. I have some ideas though for quieting it down. I also might filter the HF on the MAP sensor wire as it doesn't need a super fast response.

10-30-2007, 08:45 PM	#30 (permalink)
skillzo1 Streets closed pizza boy! Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Stankonia Posts: 1,017 Thanks: 32 Thanked 16 Times in 15 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (7/100% )	This is a very good thread. Keep up the good work.

10-30-2007, 10:28 PM	#31 (permalink)
Mister2.2 Cheese it! Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 6,561 Thanks: 121 Thanked 115 Times in 99 Posts Blog Entries: 1 My Google Map iTrader Rating: (3/100% )	They should use the same ground. You may want to try using EMI filters on the wires or something.

11-04-2007, 01:24 PM	#32 (permalink)
Weasy2k What is an MR2? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,891 Thanks: 33 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	mrturrari, judging by the problems you are having...i dont think it really is the smt6 now, grounds are really tricky and have been known to cause MANY problems when hooking up the smt6 to these cars (even the Tacoma). Talk to your dad about building a noise filter as mentioned above to help with noise. There is a OEM one in the car already that is located to the right of the coil and ignitor look at what colour brown wire there is there (i think its brown-red) and see if you can go into that ground.

11-07-2007, 01:11 AM	#33 (permalink)
mrturrari I <3 my 5sfe Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 655 Thanks: 2 Thanked 170 Times in 113 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	The coil is in the distributor on the 93+ 5sfes. I put a band-aid on the problem though with the noise getting on the MAP sensor line that was causing the ECU to freak out. To fix it put in a 1k resister in the line and then a 1uF capacitor to ground on the SMT6 side of the resister. That effectively filters out the higher frequency spikes but it changed the voltage slightly so I had to alter the fuel maps a couple of points here and there. The AFRs still swing more then they should at 3500rpms but only by a little unlike before when it would sometimes go the range of the wide band gauge. I still get dropped ignition events a couple of times a day but they are not bad enough to trip the CEL. I bought a new distributor that I am going to try this next weekend and see if that helps.

11-07-2007, 02:00 AM	#34 (permalink)
Final13 Cage Fighter Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Tennessee Posts: 383 Thanks: 6 Thanked 9 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	So I can expect personal group smt6 install sessions soon right

11-07-2007, 03:20 AM	#35 (permalink)
blumr2 Cage Fighter Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 159 Thanks: 27 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Boy, tuning sure sounds like fun. haha

11-07-2007, 03:56 AM	#36 (permalink)
Weasy2k What is an MR2? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,891 Thanks: 33 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	THere is a little grey thing that sits by the fuse box on the firewall..that is the OEM filter, some people have tapped into that for a ground with great sucess! Do you have a after market stereo system in your car?

11-09-2007, 12:43 AM	#37 (permalink)
mrturrari I <3 my 5sfe Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 655 Thanks: 2 Thanked 170 Times in 113 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	There is a gray connector on the igniter bracket with two wires going to it. Are you saying that one or both of those two wires is the ECU ground and that little box is a filter? I'll have to trace it back when it's light out. I replaced the distributor and moved some of the wires further away from it and the ignition wires. The problem got worse. No problems on the MAP circuit but the ignition misses every couple of minutes while cruising. The distributor has needed replacing for a while because the connector to the cams was rattling.

11-10-2007, 01:06 AM	#39 (permalink)
mrturrari I <3 my 5sfe Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 655 Thanks: 2 Thanked 170 Times in 113 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	Ok, I rearranged some of the engine harness wires to get them further away from the distributor and put the old distributor back in. The SMT6 did not like that after market one at all. Maybe I can switch the electronics from the old one to that one so I have the new mechanicals. The problem seems to be gone for now. Not a single glitch all day driving around town and on the freeway total of about 80 miles. The gray box turned out to have 12v on the wire side so it couldn't be used as a ground. It is a filter of some sort but for switched power. Weasy2k, I do have an after market stereo and amp but I can turn them completely off and nothing changes. They are wired up with no ground loops. On another side note my wide band O2 sensor has been acting strangely the last couple of days and last night it died. Luckily Autozone had another one for $50. I have a Zeitronix and they use the Bosch 17014.

01-12-2008, 06:28 PM	#40 (permalink)
mrturrari I <3 my 5sfe Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 655 Thanks: 2 Thanked 170 Times in 113 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	I guess I should give an update because it has been a while. The SMT6 is working great and I have noticed no problems for two months now. The things that finally solved my noise problems were moving the wiring harness as far away from the ignition wires and coil as possible and filtering the MAP circuit. This probably only needs to be done on the 93+ rev 2 5sfes because the coil is in the distributor and so is closer to other wires that can pick up stray voltages from it. The SMT6 is a great little box and gives you the ability to tune both fuel and spark timing. It's not a stand alone but because it uses the stock ECU as a base you don't have as much effort to get it working.