Opinions on the "Mega-Squirt" EMS? : Ongoing MegaSquirt Discussion - Page 2

Enthalpy · 07-09-2006, 09:49 PM

I think that's his point. The solder joints weren't sound the cost of that error was another unit.

Weasy2k · 07-10-2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiddquikk

The soldering has nothing to do with the manufacturer, as you solder this product yourself.

some companys do it for you as kits.

Mekkahfire · 07-10-2006, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enthalpy

I think that's his point. The solder joints weren't sound the cost of that error was another unit.

I dont get it. Thats a consumer error. Thats like saying to not buy volk wheels because some kid threw 2 lugnuts on instead of 5, and it wobbled loose on the freeway.

Enthalpy · 07-10-2006, 07:22 PM

Soldering your own setup is not as reliable as a manufacture process. There will always be 1 or 2 joints in 100 or 200 that are a little off, even with a seasoned circuit builder. Therefore, I read Weasy's post to say the EMS won't be as reliable regardless if its a consumer error.

Mekkahfire · 07-10-2006, 08:54 PM

Well, the $1,800 dollar difference justifies itself to me. lol.

Nothing thats DIY is as reliable as OEM or Manufacturer. But if everyone had that spirit, new parts simply would not come out for the MR2 or any other vehicle for that matter, and companies like Greddy and HKS would have a monopoly on the aftermarket part industry.

;/

Enthalpy · 07-10-2006, 11:57 PM

You are right. Megasquirt is for a select few people, but if you are up for the task, it can be a fun, relatively inexpensive ride, especially if you understand the hidden costs.

Weasy2k · 07-11-2006, 02:05 AM

Whoa 1800 thats one badass standalone :P

Yea the undercosts are a killer...like most things...

Enthalpy · 07-11-2006, 11:21 AM

Yea, a $1800 difference would buy you one top-of-the-line stand-alone! Whoa!

Mekkahfire · 07-11-2006, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weasy2k

Whoa 1800 thats one badass standalone :P

Yea the undercosts are a killer...like most things...

Last time i checked, the Hydra Nemesis' full package was 1600, or 1800, something rediculous like that.

Enthalpy · 07-11-2006, 07:01 PM

You did say $1800 DIFFERENCE. I was doing the math and coming up with a really high number.

I don't think I will ever stop being amazed at the sense of entitlement people have now. That's not ridiculous at all. When you consider the engineering effort involved and the customer base it will likely have, that's a steal. There are a lot of costs to recover there.

The entry costs of EMS-ing your car are high by some standards, low by others. That doesn't mean they are ridiculous, that is simply the price of admission. If you don't like it, then hack together your own EMS.

Let me draw a parallel:
A car involves literally millions of dollars of R&D costs, sometimes more! The cost of materials and manufacturing a car is probably 1/2 of the sticker price, but that doesn't include the engineering R&D costs you have to spread into the customer base as well. We haven't even touched the profit the company is in business for to begin with.

See what I mean?

Mekkahfire · 07-11-2006, 08:14 PM

Enthalpy, i had a good amount of respect for you. Im still asking an honest question, dont flame alright?

In my honest oppinion, R&D could cost 223432 billion dollars, and the price of the EMS itself could be a fraction of that.

How does that change the fact that i cant afford 1800 bucks for an EMS?

Weasy2k · 07-12-2006, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiddquikk

Enthalpy, i had a good amount of respect for you. Im still asking an honest question, dont flame alright?

In my honest oppinion, R&D could cost 223432 billion dollars, and the price of the EMS itself could be a fraction of that.

How does that change the fact that i cant afford 1800 bucks for an EMS?

Hes not saying what you can afford and such. What he means is that 1800 isnt overpriced at all for what you get.
If you cant afford it then you can search for alternatives and MS is one...but like we both mentioned in the begining you get what you pay for.

The XMS is going for 1600 right now...but its not plug and play. I dont intend to make it plug and play for the 3s but rather the v6's.

Weasy2k · 08-29-2006, 02:38 PM

There is no such thing as factorys....

THey are all hand made wiether it be you or the place you buy it from.

Mekkahfire · 08-29-2006, 02:45 PM

Okay, so lets review.

I could either solder it myself, or let someone with years of experience do it for me, since there's no such thing as factories.

Hmm.

Anyway.

No, i really find it odd that the messageboard i expected to be like "yeah good idea, go for it" shot it into the ground while the messageboard i expected to be like "NO! NEVAR! ZE SCHMEGASQUIRT DIES IN A FIRE!" was supportive about it.

Enthalpy · 08-29-2006, 03:14 PM

You are trying to get a one-word answer to your question. You simply won't get that, the answer can't be that simple. The answer is personal, and only you can make the decision. We have provided good pros and cons here, but the choice is ultimately yours.

Weasy2k · 08-30-2006, 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekkahfire

Okay, so lets review.

I could either solder it myself, or let someone with years of experience do it for me, since there's no such thing as factories.

Hmm.

Anyway.

No, i really find it odd that the messageboard i expected to be like "yeah good idea, go for it" shot it into the ground while the messageboard i expected to be like "NO! NEVAR! ZE SCHMEGASQUIRT DIES IN A FIRE!" was supportive about it.

Then use it....like enthalpy said...we gave you the pros and cons while most were cons. Just because its not the answer you were looking for (by that reply im guessing it wasn’t) don’t get all moody about it.

Also how you know the person soldering it at the place you buy it has tons of experience? That is why i am so paranoid there is lots more room for error in hand soldered stuff.

I also say this from first hand experience as i have installed and tuned with megasquirt...after 2 ecus we got it running fine and it still is a year later.

Mekkahfire · 08-30-2006, 01:05 AM

Who says im getting moody?

I wont get into why i think what i think anymore, im done with flame threads, lol.

Thanks for your input.

toyotaspeed90 · 09-27-2006, 06:48 PM

well.... here is something for you to think about

my last 87 hardtop with an ae101 4agze in it (and mr2 e51 trans) running on a NON-TUNED megasquirt (fuel was rich and timing was only from 10-15*)... and at 100+ mph was catching a turbo mk2...

also... in this same state... probably one of the fastest mk1 mr2's that still has a 4ag in it is running on megasquirt (Brent Picasso). He is the originator of the & extra coding and board. He is running the VERY FIRST megasquirt (MS1 version 1) with a flyback board.

I personally only had 2 problems with my megasquirt system:

1) my injectors were low ohm, but wouldn't start with low ohm setting.... so, once the injector drivers went out on me (oh well, cost me $10 to fix it)

2) my battery went ape shit on me and caused the alternator to overcharge.... while doing that, voltage spikes went through the system and a) tripped a 100A circuit breaker and b) blew a few parts in the MS... mainly because I didn't have relays small enough between the battery and the MS unit

so.... from my experience... the only problems were user errors.... on my system the only "hidden costs" were the ~$20 in edis parts from the JY, the $35 for welding & balancing the edis wheel to the pulley and the spare parts i bought from digikey just in case....

as for fuel economy.... the map I had wasn't set up for that engine.... with the supercharger on it ate fuel like nobodys business.... (14mpg)... but w/o even changing the map, and with my bad timing map, with the s/c off i still got better than n/a 4age fuel economy (on the freeway... ~30-35mpg)... with tuning i could have probably reached 40mpg easily

i recently sold that car, and the owner loves it..... I'm currently building an 85 turbo setup... which will start on stock electronics until i decide to go with more than 8psi of boost (and the ms v3 i have will run it).

oh yeah... also.... i attend WWU, which has a very good vehicle research institute.... they build baja, formula, and hybrid cars (including thermovoltaic cars).... recently one of the cars were changed to Megasquirt (from a Haltec) and the car put down an extra 30whp (which was almost double)

my old setup:

toyotaspeed90 · 09-27-2006, 06:51 PM

and to add insult to injury to those putting it down

that MS was the first electronic piece I had ever soldered together.... i wasn't a "seasoned solderer".... I got shown how on the relay board and was left alone to do the rest.

the car went through MANY MANY MANY hard drives including at the track

Weasy2k · 09-27-2006, 07:07 PM

Its not that we said ALL of them are not relaible...as i mentioned my previous expreinces with MS invovled one of them being unreliable due to improper soldering.

btw that looks amazing

I am contemplating using MS on my 4agze setup as well i dont know yet becuase i may be doing an engine swap in the future for it, but since its so cheap it might be worth it for the fun of it.

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07-09-2006, 09:49 PM	#21 (permalink)
Enthalpy EMS Harmonizer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,226 Thanks: 8 Thanked 55 Times in 43 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	I think that's his point. The solder joints weren't sound the cost of that error was another unit.

07-10-2006, 07:22 PM	#24 (permalink)
Enthalpy EMS Harmonizer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,226 Thanks: 8 Thanked 55 Times in 43 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Soldering your own setup is not as reliable as a manufacture process. There will always be 1 or 2 joints in 100 or 200 that are a little off, even with a seasoned circuit builder. Therefore, I read Weasy's post to say the EMS won't be as reliable regardless if its a consumer error.

07-10-2006, 08:54 PM	#25 (permalink)
Mekkahfire Gone But Not Forgotten Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Westerville OH Posts: 1,351 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/75% )	Well, the $1,800 dollar difference justifies itself to me. lol. Nothing thats DIY is as reliable as OEM or Manufacturer. But if everyone had that spirit, new parts simply would not come out for the MR2 or any other vehicle for that matter, and companies like Greddy and HKS would have a monopoly on the aftermarket part industry. ;/

07-10-2006, 11:57 PM	#26 (permalink)
Enthalpy EMS Harmonizer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,226 Thanks: 8 Thanked 55 Times in 43 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	You are right. Megasquirt is for a select few people, but if you are up for the task, it can be a fun, relatively inexpensive ride, especially if you understand the hidden costs.

07-11-2006, 02:05 AM	#27 (permalink)
Weasy2k What is an MR2? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,891 Thanks: 33 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Whoa 1800 thats one badass standalone :P Yea the undercosts are a killer...like most things...

07-11-2006, 11:21 AM	#28 (permalink)
Enthalpy EMS Harmonizer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,226 Thanks: 8 Thanked 55 Times in 43 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	Yea, a $1800 difference would buy you one top-of-the-line stand-alone! Whoa!

07-11-2006, 07:01 PM	#30 (permalink)
Enthalpy EMS Harmonizer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,226 Thanks: 8 Thanked 55 Times in 43 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	You did say $1800 DIFFERENCE. I was doing the math and coming up with a really high number. I don't think I will ever stop being amazed at the sense of entitlement people have now. That's not ridiculous at all. When you consider the engineering effort involved and the customer base it will likely have, that's a steal. There are a lot of costs to recover there. The entry costs of EMS-ing your car are high by some standards, low by others. That doesn't mean they are ridiculous, that is simply the price of admission. If you don't like it, then hack together your own EMS. Let me draw a parallel: A car involves literally millions of dollars of R&D costs, sometimes more! The cost of materials and manufacturing a car is probably 1/2 of the sticker price, but that doesn't include the engineering R&D costs you have to spread into the customer base as well. We haven't even touched the profit the company is in business for to begin with. See what I mean?

07-11-2006, 08:14 PM	#31 (permalink)
Mekkahfire Gone But Not Forgotten Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Westerville OH Posts: 1,351 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/75% )	Enthalpy, i had a good amount of respect for you. Im still asking an honest question, dont flame alright? In my honest oppinion, R&D could cost 223432 billion dollars, and the price of the EMS itself could be a fraction of that. How does that change the fact that i cant afford 1800 bucks for an EMS?

08-29-2006, 02:38 PM	#33 (permalink)
Weasy2k What is an MR2? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,891 Thanks: 33 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	There is no such thing as factorys.... THey are all hand made wiether it be you or the place you buy it from.

08-29-2006, 02:45 PM	#34 (permalink)
Mekkahfire Gone But Not Forgotten Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Westerville OH Posts: 1,351 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/75% )	Okay, so lets review. I could either solder it myself, or let someone with years of experience do it for me, since there's no such thing as factories. Hmm. Anyway. No, i really find it odd that the messageboard i expected to be like "yeah good idea, go for it" shot it into the ground while the messageboard i expected to be like "NO! NEVAR! ZE SCHMEGASQUIRT DIES IN A FIRE!" was supportive about it.

08-29-2006, 03:14 PM	#35 (permalink)
Enthalpy EMS Harmonizer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 1,226 Thanks: 8 Thanked 55 Times in 43 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	You are trying to get a one-word answer to your question. You simply won't get that, the answer can't be that simple. The answer is personal, and only you can make the decision. We have provided good pros and cons here, but the choice is ultimately yours.

08-30-2006, 01:05 AM	#37 (permalink)
Mekkahfire Gone But Not Forgotten Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Westerville OH Posts: 1,351 Thanks: 9 Thanked 3 Times in 3 Posts iTrader Rating: (2/75% )	Who says im getting moody? I wont get into why i think what i think anymore, im done with flame threads, lol. Thanks for your input.

09-27-2006, 06:48 PM	#38 (permalink)
toyotaspeed90 No Skills Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,401 Thanks: 0 Thanked 148 Times in 143 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	well.... here is something for you to think about my last 87 hardtop with an ae101 4agze in it (and mr2 e51 trans) running on a NON-TUNED megasquirt (fuel was rich and timing was only from 10-15*)... and at 100+ mph was catching a turbo mk2... also... in this same state... probably one of the fastest mk1 mr2's that still has a 4ag in it is running on megasquirt (Brent Picasso). He is the originator of the & extra coding and board. He is running the VERY FIRST megasquirt (MS1 version 1) with a flyback board. I personally only had 2 problems with my megasquirt system: 1) my injectors were low ohm, but wouldn't start with low ohm setting.... so, once the injector drivers went out on me (oh well, cost me $10 to fix it) 2) my battery went ape shit on me and caused the alternator to overcharge.... while doing that, voltage spikes went through the system and a) tripped a 100A circuit breaker and b) blew a few parts in the MS... mainly because I didn't have relays small enough between the battery and the MS unit so.... from my experience... the only problems were user errors.... on my system the only "hidden costs" were the ~$20 in edis parts from the JY, the $35 for welding & balancing the edis wheel to the pulley and the spare parts i bought from digikey just in case.... as for fuel economy.... the map I had wasn't set up for that engine.... with the supercharger on it ate fuel like nobodys business.... (14mpg)... but w/o even changing the map, and with my bad timing map, with the s/c off i still got better than n/a 4age fuel economy (on the freeway... ~30-35mpg)... with tuning i could have probably reached 40mpg easily i recently sold that car, and the owner loves it..... I'm currently building an 85 turbo setup... which will start on stock electronics until i decide to go with more than 8psi of boost (and the ms v3 i have will run it). oh yeah... also.... i attend WWU, which has a very good vehicle research institute.... they build baja, formula, and hybrid cars (including thermovoltaic cars).... recently one of the cars were changed to Megasquirt (from a Haltec) and the car put down an extra 30whp (which was almost double) my old setup:

09-27-2006, 06:51 PM	#39 (permalink)
toyotaspeed90 No Skills Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Bellingham, WA Posts: 2,401 Thanks: 0 Thanked 148 Times in 143 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	and to add insult to injury to those putting it down that MS was the first electronic piece I had ever soldered together.... i wasn't a "seasoned solderer".... I got shown how on the relay board and was left alone to do the rest. the car went through MANY MANY MANY hard drives including at the track

09-27-2006, 07:07 PM	#40 (permalink)
Weasy2k What is an MR2? Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Vancouver, BC Posts: 8,891 Thanks: 33 Thanked 82 Times in 68 Posts iTrader Rating: (9/100% )	Its not that we said ALL of them are not relaible...as i mentioned my previous expreinces with MS invovled one of them being unreliable due to improper soldering. btw that looks amazing I am contemplating using MS on my 4agze setup as well i dont know yet becuase i may be doing an engine swap in the future for it, but since its so cheap it might be worth it for the fun of it.