How can i mod 200hp on my 87 NA 4age motor? - Page 2

enzospriggs · 07-27-2008, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raptor13x

Ever consider a supercharger? They don't have the lag problem turbos have.

yes superchargers are the way to go if you want to do something like that to a car

Raptor13x · 07-27-2008, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enzospriggs

naw i got a chevy 350 running 450hp in a el co thats just american way you cant get v-8s like that in new cars and any car with a v-6 will be heaver thus decreasing proformance take the new subaru for exsample the v-6 is crapper then the 4 banger as you call it and it doesnt matter how meny cyl. you have its whos driving thouse cylenders that real matters and my 1.6lt is now about a 1.8lt and i would race you for pinks on your car right now if my car wasnt in impound

Ku-sama · 07-27-2008, 06:41 PM

race me? lol... highest HP I have is in my truck, but it's not that serious man.... point is, for straight line, if you have a 1.6l NA MK1 against we'll say my 2.2l NA MK2, I'd have a small advantage despite weighing 400+ pounds more... I just have a bigger motor...

90% of the people will tell you that turbo is better for drag and track, but ****** for autocross. but then again, 80%+ of the people here use their car as a DD. I'm pretty sure my assumption is right when I say the OP isn't trying to build an autocross star and that he just wants a beast DD. in which case a good turbo would be a good option

speedygonzalez · 07-27-2008, 06:48 PM

ok. the thing is that the reason i'm not planning to go with turbo or swap is because i don't make a lot of money for that, i'm on a tight budget. besides i work for grease monkey ( oil and lube shop ). i'm only getting paid $7.50 an hr. yeah it sucks!! i wish i could go turbo, but is too expensive plus they don't make turbo kits for the MK1 MR2. i've got to get custom made and is a lot of hassle and problems. even if i swap engines, it takes money and a lot of fabrication and time, i can't deal with that! i just need to get the right parts for the 4age. i've seen people with hitting 200hp with the NA 4age. ( no turbo/swap ). but they don't explain what they put on the motor. besides, my dad and my uncle are the ones helping me rebuilt the 4age. they are long time experience mechanics and they used rebuild racing engines back in there days. so i know there is a way hooking it up close to 200hp. i just need help on the right parts and advice.

enzospriggs · 07-27-2008, 07:33 PM

who was taking about straight lines here i tack race bub were talking about modding a 4a-ge and if you guys can understand me then dont reply dammit stop hatting on my redneck ass i just keep reporting and dont hate because i got more cars then youve owned in your hole life and dude that started this thread just get your motor bored camed and cranked and youll be happy dont forget about a head port and polish youll be happer then these haters that cant read because then live in some bum****ed small town and cant do anything other then put a turbo on a motor

enzospriggs · 07-27-2008, 07:38 PM

point is i know how to work with motors and not have to swap motors to be fast trust me a 16v can stomp a 20v any day

Everett · 07-27-2008, 07:38 PM

I'd like to find out the mods that will get you 200hp out of the 4AGE. Sound like it would be tons of fun and good reliability! I'm planning on getting a MKI soon so I'll be following closely!!! I guess you would start off with some machine work on the block and heads to get some more displacement.

enzospriggs · 07-27-2008, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bluemr2

I'd like to find out the mods that will get you 200hp out of the 4AGE. Sound like it would be tons of fun and good reliability! I'm planning on getting a MKI soon so I'll be following closely!!! I guess you would start off with some machine work on the block and heads to get some more displacement.

yes thank you that what i said look at my diss. of my mk1 and learn people and learn to read while your at it

speedygonzalez · 07-27-2008, 08:22 PM

LOL!!! AMEN to that enzo and blue mr2. LOL

enzospriggs · 07-27-2008, 09:10 PM

but for reals call around get quoets and stuff i never mentiond the 2-3000$ tool bill just to be able to do all that my self but now i have thouse tools and can do more of this stuff

lsgheero · 07-27-2008, 10:24 PM

ummmm sorry to contradict but the 20v is a much better engine to start with as a base for a na buildup lol. Hence the reason Toyota used it for the formula Atlantic (only makes 240hp) is a 20v buildup. You can buy a formula atlantic from various sources but be prepared to spend the likes of 10-20k (depending on the supplier).

However you can get 200 out of a 16v, but anything past 170hp is going to get very pricy for only a few hp gains. unlike the easier stuff you do to get to 150-160.

Heres a good site to explain what I am trying to say.

Bill Sherwood's Modified 4AGE Page

toy-driver · 07-28-2008, 01:19 AM

I really, REALLY doubt you can get 250hp out of a n/a. Sorry enzo, but formula atlantic motors only got 240hp out of highly tuned, $8k for the crankshaft, motors. If you want 200+hp go with the 4agze with cams and pulley.

fastrax203 · 07-28-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lsgheero

ummmm sorry to contradict but the 20v is a much better engine to start with as a base for a na buildup lol. Hence the reason Toyota used it for the formula Atlantic (only makes 240hp) is a 20v buildup. You can buy a formula atlantic from various sources but be prepared to spend the likes of 10-20k (depending on the supplier).

However you can get 200 out of a 16v, but anything past 170hp is going to get very pricy for only a few hp gains. unlike the easier stuff you do to get to 150-160.

I could have sworn the Formula Atlantic engine was a 16v engine.

Enzospriggs, either your a real a beast of a tuner and technician or a real magician. 250hp 1.6L 16V 4A-GE. You said it put down 200+ and you detuned it to 165. Where's the dyno chart? Where are the pics of your car? I'm sorry but you're still a bench racer until you put up some pics of dyno chart, engine builds, etc.

fastrax203 · 07-28-2008, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by enzospriggs

sry im saying i think the 16v has a lot more potental then the 20v wow you get 4 more valves just put a cam set in a crank some new pistons and port and polist your head and intake bigger fuel inj. bigger fuel rail a good intake and cam gears if you want that kind of tuning and then take it in and get your computer reworked and trust me youll be happy o headers are a must if you dont port them and i found on my mk1 no muffler just cat. is best run a bypass valve mine foot dynoed at over 250 i couldnt control it so i detuned it to about 165 ish and you can do outher moods to do on the fly tunes thouse are secrets i dont let out on a thread maybe on pm

grand tottel for me on my 4a-ge build 1000$ in parts i do my own laber

Well for one, the 16v head doesn't flow as well as a 20v head does even with 1mm oversized valves.

Next, a decent set of cams go from $400 - $1000, valve train upgrades tend to be about another $400

Pistons are about $350, and Rods go from $350 - $450

Fuel Injectors would go for about $400 for a good set

Still gotta get the crank worked, lightend, rebalanced, knife edged

Gotta have the head reworked, multi angle valve job, port polish and flow benched

N/A should go ITB for maximum output instead of a "good intake"

A Standalone computer would be required as the engine would need to be spinning upwards of 10k+ to make your clamied 250hp out of 1.6L that's another $500 - $2000+

Stop playing Gran Turismo and do work, post some pics to shut me up.

Oh, you've got $2000 - $3000 in tools? Awesome for the price of your tools you could have bought my TOOLBOX that has about $6000 in tools in it.

fastrax203 · 07-28-2008, 01:28 PM

Sorry guys, I just don't like people who pull numbers out of their asses and claim it to be true and blah blah blah. Pics or it didn't happen.

TomsMR2 · 07-28-2008, 02:42 PM

the 240hp formula engines are rebuild constantly. its not reliable, or streetable. anyone telling you anything different is lying to you.

basically, you're not going to hit 200hp. you need a different motor.

lsgheero · 07-28-2008, 03:39 PM

For those interested, Heres all the information I have a the formula atlantic 4age. Why do i have this I considered building up a 20 to the specs myself thinking I could do it cheaper back in 2004 as I have always like the 4age engine and i prefer na and it doesn't get any better lol. This would make a really nice track car. However it is cheaper just to buy a used one lol. These guys are correct if you want power into those ranges from the 4age then its either turbo or something like this. which is not going to reliable as a dd and you can forget about passing any smog laws where you live. That and I think the police would notice you driving your car around in the 6-11k rpm range because thats where all the power is on this thing. Its a VERY peaky engine.

My collection of information with regards to the formula atlantic

**please note that this information was compiled via various internet sources and since I never followed through on this I didn't bother to hound toyota to validate any of it lol **
__________________________________________________ ________

General:

Cylinder Firing Order: 1-3-4-2
Engine Bore: 81mm (3.189")
Engine Stroke: 77mm (3.031")
Oil Viscosity: 40 or 50 weight, depending on air temperature
Fuel Octane Rating: 108 prefered
Operating Oil Temperature: 200º-230º F, above 230º there is power loss
Operating Water Temperaure: 180º-200º F
Oil Pump Operating Pressure: 80-90 lbs
Spark Plug: Champion C55C or C57C
Compression Ratio: 12.7:1 maximum
Intake Camshaft Timing: 102º Lobe Center
Exhaust Camshaft Timing: 102º Lobe Center
Intake Valve Lash (cold): .012"
Exhaust valve Lash (cold): .013"
Ignition Timing: 28º BTDC @ 2,000rpm

Clearances'

Valve Lifter to Bore: .0005" - .0028"
Camshaft Journal: .0014" - .0028"
Piston Ring Gap (#1): .016" - .018"
(#2): .015" - .017"
Piston to Cylinder Wall: .0045" - 0050"
Wrist Pin Diameter: 19mm (.7480")
Wrist Pin: .0006" - .0015"
Main Bearing: .0020" - .0028"
Thrust Bearing: .003: - .006"
Con Rod Large End Diameter: 1.7726" - 1.7716"
Con Rod Bearing: .0025" - .0030"
Con Rod Side: .008" - .012"
Crankshaft Nose Diameter: .9842" - .9834"
Crankshaft Main Journal Diameter: 1.8897" - 1.8892"
Crankshaft Con Rod Journal Diameter: 1.6525" - 1.6520"
Pilot Bushing ID: .678" - .676"
Input Shaft Diameter: .669" - .668"
Cy

07-27-2008, 06:41 PM	#23 (permalink)
Ku-sama Cage Fighter Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Germantown, MD Posts: 943 Thanks: 7 Thanked 21 Times in 21 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (2/100% )	race me? lol... highest HP I have is in my truck, but it's not that serious man.... point is, for straight line, if you have a 1.6l NA MK1 against we'll say my 2.2l NA MK2, I'd have a small advantage despite weighing 400+ pounds more... I just have a bigger motor... 90% of the people will tell you that turbo is better for drag and track, but ****** for autocross. but then again, 80%+ of the people here use their car as a DD. I'm pretty sure my assumption is right when I say the OP isn't trying to build an autocross star and that he just wants a beast DD. in which case a good turbo would be a good option

07-27-2008, 06:48 PM	#24 (permalink)
speedygonzalez Toyota Freak Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	ok. the thing is that the reason i'm not planning to go with turbo or swap is because i don't make a lot of money for that, i'm on a tight budget. besides i work for grease monkey ( oil and lube shop ). i'm only getting paid $7.50 an hr. yeah it sucks!! i wish i could go turbo, but is too expensive plus they don't make turbo kits for the MK1 MR2. i've got to get custom made and is a lot of hassle and problems. even if i swap engines, it takes money and a lot of fabrication and time, i can't deal with that! i just need to get the right parts for the 4age. i've seen people with hitting 200hp with the NA 4age. ( no turbo/swap ). but they don't explain what they put on the motor. besides, my dad and my uncle are the ones helping me rebuilt the 4age. they are long time experience mechanics and they used rebuild racing engines back in there days. so i know there is a way hooking it up close to 200hp. i just need help on the right parts and advice.

07-27-2008, 07:33 PM	#25 (permalink)
enzospriggs DaTsUnDR!Ft INC. Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: elk grove,ca Posts: 172 Thanks: 26 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	who was taking about straight lines here i tack race bub were talking about modding a 4a-ge and if you guys can understand me then dont reply dammit stop hatting on my redneck ass i just keep reporting and dont hate because i got more cars then youve owned in your hole life and dude that started this thread just get your motor bored camed and cranked and youll be happy dont forget about a head port and polish youll be happer then these haters that cant read because then live in some bum****ed small town and cant do anything other then put a turbo on a motor

07-27-2008, 07:38 PM	#26 (permalink)
enzospriggs DaTsUnDR!Ft INC. Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: elk grove,ca Posts: 172 Thanks: 26 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	point is i know how to work with motors and not have to swap motors to be fast trust me a 16v can stomp a 20v any day

07-27-2008, 07:38 PM	#27 (permalink)
Everett Curve hunter! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Decatur,IL/Solomons,MD Posts: 1,230 Thanks: 35 Thanked 49 Times in 46 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (5/100% )	I'd like to find out the mods that will get you 200hp out of the 4AGE. Sound like it would be tons of fun and good reliability! I'm planning on getting a MKI soon so I'll be following closely!!! I guess you would start off with some machine work on the block and heads to get some more displacement.

07-27-2008, 08:22 PM	#29 (permalink)
speedygonzalez Toyota Freak Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 19 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	LOL!!! AMEN to that enzo and blue mr2. LOL

07-27-2008, 09:10 PM	#30 (permalink)
enzospriggs DaTsUnDR!Ft INC. Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: elk grove,ca Posts: 172 Thanks: 26 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	but for reals call around get quoets and stuff i never mentiond the 2-3000$ tool bill just to be able to do all that my self but now i have thouse tools and can do more of this stuff

07-27-2008, 10:24 PM	#31 (permalink)
lsgheero RAR! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 450 Thanks: 7 Thanked 22 Times in 22 Posts My Google Map iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	ummmm sorry to contradict but the 20v is a much better engine to start with as a base for a na buildup lol. Hence the reason Toyota used it for the formula Atlantic (only makes 240hp) is a 20v buildup. You can buy a formula atlantic from various sources but be prepared to spend the likes of 10-20k (depending on the supplier). However you can get 200 out of a 16v, but anything past 170hp is going to get very pricy for only a few hp gains. unlike the easier stuff you do to get to 150-160. Heres a good site to explain what I am trying to say. Bill Sherwood's Modified 4AGE Page

07-28-2008, 01:19 AM	#32 (permalink)
toy-driver _________________ Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dallas, TX Posts: 187 Thanks: 1 Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	I really, REALLY doubt you can get 250hp out of a n/a. Sorry enzo, but formula atlantic motors only got 240hp out of highly tuned, $8k for the crankshaft, motors. If you want 200+hp go with the 4agze with cams and pulley.

07-28-2008, 01:28 PM	#35 (permalink)
fastrax203 i <3 Hikki Chan! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Virginia Beach Posts: 65 Thanks: 2 Thanked 10 Times in 9 Posts iTrader Rating: (1/100% )	Sorry guys, I just don't like people who pull numbers out of their asses and claim it to be true and blah blah blah. Pics or it didn't happen.

07-28-2008, 02:42 PM	#36 (permalink)
TomsMR2 Formerly Tom Brokaw Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Bay Area Posts: 2,138 Thanks: 8 Thanked 165 Times in 138 Posts Blog Entries: 1 iTrader Rating: (0/0% )	the 240hp formula engines are rebuild constantly. its not reliable, or streetable. anyone telling you anything different is lying to you. basically, you're not going to hit 200hp. you need a different motor.