5SFE year?

[fidget]

Hi there i'm in need of a new engine for my 91 NA. I was wondering what engine year range I can use without the need of rewiring and using my standard ecu.

Can I use a 5S from a Camry? Will the mr2's tranny bolt up?

Thanks in advanced

[PHOENIX]

You will be able to use an ECU from a 1991 or 1992 MR2. Unfortunately you can't use any other ecu except those years. An ECU for a 91 NA should be quite easy to pick up and shouldn't cost you an arm and a leg.

You can use a 5s from a camry, but there are a few small differences, the main one being the cams are not as aggressive as the original MR2 Cams which turns into less HP.

As far as the tranny bolting, I don't see why it wouldn't bolt straight up but wait for someone else to chime in before dropping money on one with my word alone.

[fidget]

Thanks for the reply!

I should have written this better =/.

I have the 91 ECU that came with the car, Do I need a 91-92 5SFE? I really just want everything to plug right up without any headaches.

Less aggressive cams? Can't have that, seeing how I plan to autocross this car. Is it a big drop in hp?

[mrturrari]

Actually I don't believe the cams are any different. The Camrys did come with balance shafts though which may account for their slighty lower HP. A 5sfe from a celica or mr2 will not have the balance shafts. You can use a long block from any year 5sfe if you keep your old distributor, intake manifold and valve cover. Basically just use the block and head from the new motor and bolt your old stuff onto it and you won't have any problems.

[fidget]

Thanks for the info mrturrari!

[veritas731]

I would go ahead and step up the the 3SGE, it's a much better engine and is well worth the upgrade price. I wish all the N/As were 3SGE

[PETC]

As was stated the cam profiles on the 5SFE out of the Camrys are not as aggresive, so while they produce the same power, they produce it in a much more... Camry-esque way.

You can use any 5SFE pre '93 from another MR2 or a Celica GT and everything should bolt up exactly the same way.

However, if you do get a longblock out of a Celica, remove ALL of the accesories (Alternator bracket, coolant lines, etc) and replace them with your old ones off of the MR2. Even small things like the thermostat housing are different, so don't throw anything away unless you want to make more work for yourself.

[Jason.MZW20]

Camrys used the 93+ block and head design. The valve lift is exactly the same, as is the duration between all 5SFEs of that generation. Most of the parasitic loss is from the balance shafts as previously stated. Power output was upped in 2000 and even in 2001, with direct/electric ignition (not injection) and full sequential fuel injection providing the majority of the small gains and cleaner burns. In 2001, the 5SFE produced 136hp/150lb-ft w/ balance shafts, but i'm not sure if it's compatible with older head designs for the distributor. The 2000-2001 Camry long block is exclusive and uses an MLS head gasket for improved sealing and strength.

Any difference in power delivery is due solely to the transmission gearing and any other parasitic losses on the engine itself.

The year range of compatible 5SFEs is from 1990-1999. 2000-2001 is unknown. Any S series manual transmission will work on any 5SFE, but the S54 is best suited for acceleration.

[mr220v]

You can also use a 3sfe if you want to be extra cheap about it. It would make slightly less power, but was more readily available in the Japanese market (the 5sfe was basically never sold in Japan). That means you can find a good condition/lower mileage 3sfe at a cheaper price. It would be a more reliable alternative to finding a cheap junkyard 5sfe. The only difference in the motors is that the 5s has 8% more displacement. The 3sfe will run on the 5sfe wiring harness and ecu.

The 5sfe and 3sfe are both pretty slow. For a little more money, you can pick up a 2nd gen 3sge, but you would have to find an uncut wiring harness. Swapping a 3sge into a 91 is pretty easy.

[Mister2.2]

I'd stay the hell away from the 3SFE at all costs.

[mr220v]

I'd say stay away from the 5sfe at all costs, but unfortunately thats what Toyota decided to put in the USDM mk2.

An economy engine is an economy engine. If I have $300 to spend on a motor, and my choice is to get a 3sfe with 50k, or a 5sfe with 150k, I'm gonna get the 3sfe.

[Mister2.2]

So you would stay away from the 5SFE at all costs but suggest using a 3SFE? I don't get that. Less power, more narrow power band and probably the same cost as a 5SFE, hard choice.

Not all economy engines are the same, sorry.

[mr220v]

You're running a 5sfe and you're concerned about power? Thats what doesn't make any sense.

5sfe or 3sfe, you're still going to be slow. With the 3sfe you've got a better chance of finding a nice one.

Things I like about the 5sfe/3sfe:

-runs on 87 octane
-good fuel economy


If you're concerned about performance, seeing as how you're going to be replacing the motor anyway, grab a 3sge, those are cheap too, except you'll be running 89octane at very minimum. If all you want is a reliable motor that is very cheap, grab a 3sfe.

The 5s gives you that off the line psuedo torquey feeling, but I don't find that too rewarding. Heck, the fact that your 3sfe has 100k fewer miles will probably make it the faster motor.

[TomsMR2]

my 5sfe was faster than my 20v. 4age = super turd x100, yet its a "performance" motor? gimme a damn break. theres nothing wrong with the F head.

[mr220v]

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

my 5sfe was faster than my 20v. 4age = super turd x100, yet its a "performance" motor? gimme a damn break. theres nothing wrong with the F head.

Who said there was anything "wrong" with the 5sfe head? It gets great gas mileage, and runs on 87 octane just like Toyota meant it to. It feels like a bigger motor than it really is, till about 2k rpm. Start trying to make it a performance engine, and you will be fighting its intended design. Frankly I think people spend way too much money and energy trying to make that motor into something its not. There are WAY better platforms.

How much money do you have in that 5sfe at this point? I'm sure its 4 or 5 times what a reasonable 20v swap runs. At this point I would imagine you're putting up 3sge numbers
....Maybe.

For $4000-5000, you should be far faster than a 20v, or a 3sge for that matter, not just "faster".

[TomsMR2]

if you look at MODIFIED 3sge times, they're right on par with modified 5sfe times.. everyone seems to overlook that somehow. bolt-on 5sfes with an intake cam run stock turbo times.. but im sure you wouldnt have guessed that because you have a crappy stock 3sfe. they're both bad motors stock, its just incredibly easy to remove whats bad about the 5sfe.

i have less than 500 in my 5sfe. where'd you pull this 4000-5000 random number from?

[mr220v]

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

if you look at MODIFIED 3sge times, they're right on par with modified 5sfe times.. everyone seems to overlook that somehow. bolt-on 5sfes with an intake cam run stock turbo times.. but im sure you wouldnt have guessed that because you have a crappy stock 3sfe. they're both bad motors stock, its just incredibly easy to remove whats bad about the 5sfe.

i have less than 500 in my 5sfe. where'd you pull this 4000-5000 random number from?

What are you smoking? I'm running a 2nd gen 3sge. I suggested a 3sfe as a cheap point A to B replacement that can be had with a lot fewer miles. It sounded like the author of this thread was having a hard time tracking down an original sw20 5sfe.

You can make 230hp with a gen3 3sge. I know you're not making 230hp, or even 170. Modded 5sfe's are hard pressed to make stock 3sge numbers.

Just to get around the 5sfe rev limiter you're going to have to buy a standalone ecu. You'd have $1000 in this alone, maybe less if you bought some used unit.

[mr220v]

Originally Posted by TomsMR2

if you look at MODIFIED 3sge times, they're right on par with modified 5sfe times.. everyone seems to overlook that somehow. bolt-on 5sfes with an intake cam run stock turbo times.. but im sure you wouldnt have guessed that because you have a crappy stock 3sfe. they're both bad motors stock, its just incredibly easy to remove whats bad about the 5sfe.

i have less than 500 in my 5sfe. where'd you pull this 4000-5000 random number from?

I saw you are starting a v6 project. Finally, some displacement that will matter. .163L, who cares, a whole extra liter and a half, now thats worth something.