5sfe/3sgte fitment

[rousegk7]

I am on my way to joining the 5sfte club but still have some questions. From what i understand, stock 3sgte exhaust manifolds or any exhaust manifolds for the 3s in general will fit the 5s correct? Also will the head off of a 3s fit with the 5s and work properly? Thanks.

[Luni]

Yeah the head works, but if you want a 3S head on a 5S block you then need a 3S ECU to run it.

Your 5S ECU wont run the distributor and timing, and etc correctly.

As for the exhaust manifold, yeah, the turbo manifold and turbo will bolt up. Lots of work to make a 3S head work on a 5S block though. For the most part, youre gonna be told to get a standalone EMS before you can do it properly.

[rousegk7]

Thanks Luni. Now for another question. Is it worth doing that to get the redline into the upper 7k's? Using an EMS is not a concern of mine, was kinda planning on getting one eventually. Or will a 5f head upgraded with some new springs, retainers, and valves do enough to support a higher redline and higher boost for that matter? Im shooting for 300 whp on 13-15 psi boost if that helps at all. Also with a 3s manifold, all exhaust components will bolt upto the downpipe and fit on my 2 correct? Im assuming that chassis is still the same on NA/turbo but just wanted to verify. And sorry for so many little questions, but what about intake manifold? will ones made for a 3sg-te fit on my 5f, or would you need the 3s head to make them fit along with all the 3s's electronics.

[Luni]

Exhaust mani from a 3S fits, intake mani doesnt.

If youre running the turbo/manifold/downpipe setup from a turbo car, you need an exhaust from a turbo car. Like, any aftermarket MR2 Turbo exhaust would then bolt up to your car and give you the flow youd need.

Im sure you can get some revs out of a 5S head, but the aftermarket for that head is not near as good as for a 3S head.

If you want 300whp reliably, I think you might have to do some bottom end work on your 5S as well. Im not sure how well your rods and mains can take that power.

You can get 300whp out of a 5SFTE, but it takes a lot of careful planning and implementation, you cant cheap out on anything, and in the end youre going to spend as much money as on a 3SGTE with similiar mods that SHOULD make similiar power and SHOULD be more reliable.

But if properly tuned, GTE head on a 5S block with an EMS and a good properly matched turbo should make 300hp without too many problems.

Im not the expert on this tho, many other people have done far more with this setup. Ive just read about it.

[TomsMR2]

shoot me a PM if you need the turbo manifold, i have one here.

[shimric]

3s head on 5s block with turbo = 5sgte. You'll need custom pistons. Not 100% on the rods though. 5sgte is the only ONLY 4 banger I could justify putting money into. It makes me drool.....

http://atsracing.net/Aaron91MR2.htm

5sgte club is cooler

[Luni]

You dont need custom pistons for 5SGTE. At least I dont think so.

[shimric]

I dunno

Before we start talking about turbo charging, I want to let 5SFE owners know that they can also use the 3S-GTE head for NORMAL ASPIRATED application, but it would require custom made pistons to raise the compression ratio back to at least 9.5:1 or higher, about $550.00 and a custom made exhaust.

Now lets talk turbo ……Remember ……. There is no such thing as cheap turbo charging.

Things to think about before you start this project:

1.How much do I want to spend?
2.How much boost am I going to want?
3.How am I going to control all of this? …. Yes engine Management. I used an Autronic SMC

Engine Requirements:

1. Complete 3S-GTE head with cams, cam gear, timing belt tensioner, 3S-GTE cam belt and a complete inlet manifold..
2. Turbo setup. CT26 with exhaust requirements or what ever you want
3. 3S-GTE head gasket such as the TTE available in a 1.2 and 1.4 mm thickens
4. 3S-GTE oil pump. I am not sure if oil pressure and flow for the 5SFE oil pump is the same as that of the 3S-GTE, therefore my suggestion to use a 3S-GTE oil pump. Better safe than sorry.

Note: If you are going to build a high output motor I strongly suggest you get a set of connecting rods available from Pauter (www.pauter.com) and a set of Forged Wiseco Pistons available from any Wiseco dealer or me. Wiseco require dealers to order a minimum of eight pistons so it might be a good idea for potential 5 SFE turbo builders to do a Group Purchase.

Oil Supply for the Turbo:

This can be done by taping a 10 mm (3/8) elbow into the oil channel on the filter side of the block between the last two main crankshaft journals. Make sure the oil channel is thoroughly cleaned afterwards. There are also other methods to explore.

Now for the real thing…
Presuming that the 5 SFE engine is removed and stripped to the bare block.

1. Thoroughly clean the top of the block. Make sure it is 100% clean
2. Now give the cleaned area a coating of Mechanics Blue
3. Correctly place the head gasket you are going to use on top of the block
4. With a scribe, mark the positions of the water ports.
5. Remove the head gasket.

I used the following procedure to remove metal from the block. If you do not feel comfortable to do so, take the block to your local engineering works and let them do it for you. It should not cost more than say $60.00

Tools Required:
1. Center Punch
2. Slow speed drill
3. 5 mm Drill bit
4. 4 mm Tungsten Carbide burr

Procedure:
1. Center punch the areas to be drilled (these are the water port areas you marked).
2. Now with the drill and 5 mm bit, drill out all the areas marked. Normally two holes per water port. Make sure that you do not drill beyond the marked areas.
3. With the drill and 4 mm tungsten carbide burr remove all the remaining metal
4. Have the block “decked” by your local engineering works.
5. Assemble the engine as if it was a 3S-GTE
6. Make sure the oil supply and drainage, to and from the turbo, is sufficient.

Guess not... lol. But some new CP pistons would be awesome!

[Luni]

They only want you to up the CR on NA applications because it would be low.

[shimric]

I know.

[MR2azzkicker]

Originally Posted by Luni

Yeah the head works, but if you want a 3S head on a 5S block you then need a 3S ECU to run it.

Your 5S ECU wont run the distributor and timing, and etc correctly.

As for the exhaust manifold, yeah, the turbo manifold and turbo will bolt up. Lots of work to make a 3S head work on a 5S block though. For the most part, youre gonna be told to get a standalone EMS before you can do it properly.

can you simply use the 5SFE distributor on the 3S head? or are they incompatible?

cheers,
steven

[Luni]

Theyre not compatible IIRC.

[mrturrari]

With a 5sgte you should get custom pistons to set your CR higher even for a turbo setup and to match up quench zones. You CR would be like 7.8:1 if you used the stock 5s pistons. It will also allow you to have the valve reliefs in the right place so it would still be a non-interference engine.

Also only the gen II 3sgte exhaust manifolds fit not the gen IIIs.

To increase the red line on a 5sfe you need 3sgte or forged rods (because of the rod bolts), upgraded valve springs (you might make it to 7000rpms without them), aggressive cams so you can make power up there and an EMS to get rid of the rev limiter. In addition you need larger injectors and bigger fuel pump to flow enough fuel and of course a turbo capable of that much HP. The highest powered 5sfte I know of was Mike Colon's which made 515rwhp so 300 is definitely within reach with the right mods.

[Luni]

I think 7.8:1 would be a good compression ratio for boost.

DSMs do it, and they make more power with VE mods than we do.

1G 6bolt DSM motor is a 7.8:1 CR and they still make 200hp stock. Their engines are a LITTLE laggier than ours, but still feel nice.

Valve reliefs and quench zones would be an issue I guess. Never thought of that. Thx Jeff.